L&B Layout in Narrow Gauge 009

[bertiedog]

The track centres issues were only a comment as the points seem to set N gauge clearances, which are marginal to say the least with the L&B stock coaches overhangs. I am surprised that Peco do not give a range on centres for 009 to give an idea to new comers of what to set, it is easy for me, as it is set to the real dimensions or very near. I will be doing photos when a new charger arrives!

 

I think the magnetic couplers will be the way to go, Kadee most likely. The Bemo type couple but are a nuisance for uncoupling, the basic N gauge coupling is far better. The problem with magnetic are the axles, if steel, then troubles abound, if plastic wheels then dirt picks up. It needs a decent maker of Hardlon axles, with brass or nickel wheelsets, then magnetic un-coupling would function better. In HO the axles are just far enough from the magnets not to bother Kadee, but in 009 they are near and get attracted to the magnet.

 

At present, with the Bemo couplings, I use a pair of tongs with wedges that slip under the couplings to uncouple. Ramps are generally un-reliable if the stock has assorted makers in the rake of stock.

 

The track clearances are generous as well as centres, to allow the Bachmann WW1 Baldwin to run easily, along with any slightly larger stock. The L&B had far greater clearances than most narrow gauge lines.

 

A query is the position and type of water hydrants etc on the Station, and how they were fed, or did Woody Bay not have any water columns.

[bertiedog]

Blackmoor Gate seems to have a Water Column clearly shown on old Postcard views, but Woody Bay has none shown, is this right? I can add the type use at Blackmoor Gate Station very easily, one for each platform. Maybe Blackmoor Gate was the main watering place.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

I am, by the way, fully aware of the new L&B water column at Woody bay, with new tank, at the engine shed, it's the old arrangement I wondered about, 1920/1930 period before the closure.

Stephen.

[PaulRhB]

Track centres vary so much depending on what stock you use that specifying it would be a minefield

The VoR locos are similar in length to the L&B ones but wider and most quarry locos are narrower than the L&B. N clearances are fine for lines like the Penryhn Quarry 'mainline' and as the stock gets bigger you just add a short straight to suit.

[mjcampbell]

Just bear in mind that the N-gauge division of Kadee was sold off years ago and is now Microtrains. You won't find Kadee couplings in N-gauge!

 

As for track centres and loading gauges, these locos are ALL 2' gauge...

 

 

 

 

 

Now, how long is a piece of string? 

 

I can't help with your L&B question I'm afraid, but if you don't get much luck here, try http://ngrm-online.com/forums/ - lots of narrow gauge knowledge there!

[bertiedog]

The couplings from Microtrains and the other rival knuckles all seem difficult to purchase in the UK, and buying from the States simply doubles, or more, the cost,....... So leaving with the Bemo type for the moment, with each loop de-burred and polished to work better. I may try other etched types like magnetic Bemo versions later on.

 

There are a couple of Lilliput vans I have that can be used, and Roco tippers etc., and a couple of large size bogie wagons, which are I think Austrian, but match the general size for the L&B, till Peco introduce theirs.

 

The Bachmann Skarloey (un-modified so far), looks a bit small and lost on the sweeping curves, but runs well. All the track spacing is matched to the Peco coaches and the VofR coach sizes, pretty much to scale from Woody Bay itself. I have not included the extra headshunt to the carpark area, as this is a modern addition. Still debating whether to add a small goods shed to the bay track, It looks a bit bare without anything there at all, and would make a nice "scene" to model.

 

The water columns will be based on the Blackmoor Gate type shown in old postcard views, and will be one per platform, with a small water tank at the Lynton end, and a small wooden Loco shed to suit the L&B look. The modern L&B shed covers both lines at present, presumably to be altered as needed in future when extended northwards. Most of this part is on an extension board to the shelf section.

 

Stephen.

[PaulRhB]

Just bear in mind that the N-gauge division of Kadee was sold off years ago and is now Microtrains. You won't find Kadee couplings in N-gauge!

 

It's actually the two who started kadee split the business and went separate ways.

 

There's this supplier in the UK

http://www.nscaleamericantrains.co.uk/en/55_micro-trains-line

[bertiedog]

The Micro trains couplers may prove too expensive, even if bought in the UK, so sticking with hook and loop, but I am making some of my own in brass and steel for magnetic uncoupling, with a micro sized neo magnet on each loopback pivot, set to attract to electromagnet pole in the track. It works better than steel alone in experiments so far, and has the attractive addition of being repelled by the uncoupler as well, in opposite polarity, helping prevent false uncoupling. The magnet can be left activated at low current, and only activate the coupling loop when reversed.

 

More tests are needed to see if the solenoid coil at low power affects axles too much.

 

The coil is much smaller than usual, and has two pole pieces, (not poles), set a coupling distance apart, lining up with the magnets. All that shows on the track are two metal studs. I will equip a set of tracks and wagons to test it out.

 

The failing I always found on Bemo type was the wire loop, which could be rough in finish and not slide over the opposite hook easily. They need polishing with a motor tool, till smooth, then re-blackened with gunblack.

 

Stephen.

[mjcampbell]

That magnetic operation sounds interesting. 

 

The failing of the loop-over-pin couplings is that the loops meet and don't slide over each other, or that they uncouple unexpectedly. They need setting at perfectly identical height and dead level, and work best with loops at one end of the stock only. That's part of the reason I switched to buckeyes. The Microtrains couplings are in 10 pair packs for around £12 - 60p each doesn't seem too bad. However that's the pack I can't seem to source in the UK at the moment!

[PaulRhB]

Which pack do you usually use?

[bertiedog]

The Greenwich coupling etchings look interesting, they use iron wire to pull down, but I tried a micro magnet which could be epoxied on to the arm, or fitted in heat shrink to the arm, which improves the operation no end. The only problem is aligning the poles, so that, say, the south faces down, to be attracted by the north pole of the electromagnet.

 

The additional idea would be to reverse rather than switch off the magnet to activate the coupling, as the micro mag would be repelled in that case, and no uncoupling would occur.

 

To save overheating the coils, the power only needs to be on during shunting, and if the coil is weak enough it will not attract steel axles.

The coils would need to be custom made, much finer wire, and many more turns to make them efficient, and not heat up.

 

The nuisance with Bemo is that both loops must rise, one may be lifted by the other loop, but if the magnetic pulls on the top loop, the bottom remains hooked.

 

So the electromagnet would need two pole pieces, one under each Bemo coupling.

 

For locos with only the pin it would work, as there would only be the one loop to lift.

 

I think I'll get a pack of the Greenwich to try them out with the neo magnet instead of wire. The neo magnets that small are 3mm x 1mm x1mm size. I have seen smaller, but can't find supplier on ebay.

 

Stephen.

Edited July 20, 2016 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

Found the micro neodymium magnets 1mm x1mm round !! supply on line after net search.

 

http://www.first4magnets.com/neodymium-magnets-t137?gclid=Cj0KEQjwwry8BRDjsbjMpPSDvagBEiQA5oW0nKY4oxg8rWuF3nHvTVrr0R64noPqjMwnObtWbRibjnwaAqxz8P8HAQ#t50

[bertiedog]

There is another point with adding magnets to the arm, the pull is considerable, and lightweight stock might get upset by the pull! This would not affect coaches or locos, and the electromagnet could be turned down in power if this happened. A small tipper like the Roco would be tipped up by the pull.

Anyway a lot of experiments to do with the couplings later on.

[JaymzHatstand]

With Greenwich, Paul Windle and the Peco couplings which I've modified to make them automaticallyo operated, a small magnet buried in between the track sleepers and ballasted over will actuate the coupling.

 

The Peco couplings have a 0.5mm hole drilled in one of the lower arms and a bit of iron wire superglued in, extending perpendicular to to coupling causing it to lift when over the magnet. Bemo couplings would be the same I suspect, and if you're keeping your stock facing the same way then you only need a loop on one end.

 

My Scrayingham layout thread should have some photos of the magnets in position during construction (though that was a good few years ago, so there may not be!)

 

I imagine the same effects could be achieved with electromagnets. You certainly don't need magenta on the couplings themselves, as a bit of iron wire will do the job just as well, and a be lot lighter and inconspicuous!

 

Cheers

 

J

[bertiedog]

But the magnet is only 1mmx1mm, about as small as the iron wire, and would be identical on each coupling, anyway I will experiment a bit. The main thing is the couplings must be identical operation across the stock. I expect the Heljan L&B and the Baldwin coming from Bachmann will be the Bemo/ Eggar type, and can have the loop removed on the loco leaving just the hook.

 

For the moment the layout is simple end to end operation, so I must find an auto shuttle circuit to build, preferably with a soft start and stop. When the layout is fitted to the wall it will have a removable return loop added.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Anyway on with the point rodding, wire in tube, and finding a way to hold down the PTFE tube, which of course will not glue down. So I have cut up 1inx ¹/_{4 x}¹/₄ wood blocks, with a groove on the underside to take the tube, which is 2mm dia, leaving a nice large area of wood to glue the block down with, about every 6 inches or so.

The turns under the scenery are all right on radius without binding, but the tight turn to the lever frames will need bell cranks fitted, a brass plate on a wood screw and washer, five of which are needed.

The current frame has 4 positions so one to add to the end, with Gem parts if I can buy them from Ebay, or make from nickel sheet. The signals have separate non interlocked switches, or maybe more tube operation.

 

Stephen

[Dunsignalling]

Anyway on with the point rodding, wire in tube, and finding a way to hold down the PTFE tube, which of course will not glue down. So I have cut up 1inx ¹/_{4 x}¹/₄ wood blocks, with a groove on the underside to take the tube, which is 2mm dia, leaving a nice large area of wood to glue the block down with, about every 6 inches or so.

The turns under the scenery are all right on radius without binding, but the tight turn to the lever frames will need bell cranks fitted, a brass plate on a wood screw and washer, five of which are needed.

The current frame has 4 positions so one to add to the end, with Gem parts if I can buy them from Ebay, or make from nickel sheet. The signals have separate non interlocked switches, or maybe more tube operation.

 

Stephen

The easiest and quickest way to fix down PTFE tube is to wrap a piece of plastic-coated soft iron wire (Florist's?) round it a couple of turns, twist the ends together, pass it through a hole in the baseboard and just open them out on the underside to secure it in place.

 

John

[BG John]

Anyway on with the point rodding, wire in tube, and finding a way to hold down the PTFE tube, which of course will not glue down.

Use copper tube instead, like the original Mercontrol system. Readily available on eBay.

[bertiedog]

The copper tube is a bit too costly, with the 5 runs about 3 feet each, and the wooden blocks will act as platforms under the ply and foam landscape skin, to leave an air space for hidden wiring etc., I will take a few shots soon. The foam is fireproof wall veneer 2mm for areas to be coated with textures.

The actual baseboard is a pine shelf, so drilling right through is a nuisance. Trying to bury most services in between the board and the surface landscape. The signals may need an 8mm hole right through to gain access for adjustments etc., depends on electric or manual operation, and manual is easy and cheap, again through tubing, but with smaller wire or even cord.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Some shots of the Woody Bay L&B Station build so far, the ply surfaces are mounted on the hardwood blocks to gain the middle level of the station, the area to the right will be filled with foam to give the bank to the road.

No platform fitted as yet, they have a brick edge which is problematic to portray, may change platform edge finish to flag stones.

 

 

Track is laid with double sided tape, and temp screws to secure ends till glue sets and ballast laid. Only the old head shunt is modelled, not the one for lorries access. the points have been moved a bit to allow more space on the headshunt and sidings, and to suit the Peco geometry for mainline 009 points.

 

 

 

The close up shows the 6mm blocks under the ply allowing a space for cables etc., under the scenery, without going through to the underside of the shelf structure.

 

 

 

The track is mainly on 3mm cork under the ballasted area, with thin birch ply on the raised headshunt. The other ply is 3.5mm, old scrap stuff.

 

More pictures coming as long as battery holds.(missing charger).

 

Stephen.

Edited July 21, 2016 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

Some more shots, of the approach and the goods siding base

 

 

 

 

 

 

One point is the size of the Oxford vehicles , they look suspiciously small for 4mm scale to me, but they will be alright away from the track.

The wooden "stones" will be weathered and mainly buried by the time the landscaping is finished, they can be sanded or wire brushed to knock off any sharp corners.

[PaulRhB]

Those vehicles are tiny, two adults sat side by side spill out on the real ones. You should have seen four 6'4" blokes in a mini!

[bertiedog]

But not quite as small as the models, which seem to have a track of about 2 feet 9inches in 4mm, which is a bit short of the 3ft 4in front and 3ft 7in rear track of the Austin. I think they have scaled to about 1/90 or HO, but it does not matter, as they are only displayed away from more scale fittings. They are nice models, even spoked wheels, done on disks of clear plastic

 

I drove a Seven for quite a while, an experience to say the least. Steering was vague and got worst if you applied the brakes! They used mechanical pull on the front wheels drum expanders, and if out of adjustment applying the brakes meant a direction change you did not want......but at the speeds it could reach there was time to correct the steering! 50 MPH was exciting if you could find a gentle slope to help get it to that dizzy speed, more like 35 on the flat with two people.

 

An Aunt who had a Ruby Seven pre-war, never got the hang of first gear changing for stiff hills, and was, according to my mother, more likely to stop, turn, and reverse up steep hills! With less traffic around quite believable! She often had four people in the Ruby Seven, a bit of a squeeze. They say people never had radios in cars then, but she did, and liked driving along to the strains of Henry Hall and his BBC dance band in the afternoons.

 

The engine was good, a "Bean" motor design, that later went on to power the Reliant three wheelers in a modernised form.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

And a Mini?, we had six men in one at college, four in the back, and never stopped by the Police! The Mini is spacious compared to the Seven, the real Mini that is, not the modern one. Five was alright in a Ford Prefect or Popular, three in the back, but they were slooow, a stately progress of wondering if it was about to boil on a hot day.......the one I had, had the luxury of a water pump fitted as an accessory, and never boiled again.

 

Quite how Ford thought a pumpless engine could stay cool was a mystery, they claimed hot water rises to the rad, and pulls in cooler water from the bottom of the rad, all without a pump......oh yes? ..... Try that on a hot August Bank Holiday in a traffic jam....... my grandfather owned a Transport company, and Dad would take Grandfather's old Albion flatbed out on Bank Holidays, with petrol and water aboard, and find a steep  hill on the way to the South Coast, and watch out for "boilers"... they made a nice few bob in tips and sales of petrol, but it was water that most cars needed.........and Ford were the worst.

 

Stephen.

[mjcampbell]

Good progress with the layout Stephen. I've stuck the tube for points down with a hot glue gun, or use track pins either side at intervals.

 

Which pack do you usually use?

 

1015-10 - just haven't been able to find a UK supplier with them in stock for a while.