Hatfield Herts engine shed

[Kallaroonian]

This would be the shed that was there and in use up to the early 60's.

 

Anyone care to offer a guess as to its length?

 

thks

[31A]

215ft x 35ft.

 

Source: "Great Northern Railway Engine Sheds, Vol. 1 - Southern Area", Griffiths & Hooper

[Kallaroonian]

Ha. Thanks very much. I feel like a prize chump now; I have that book and have just seen the text you referenced.Somehow just hadn't noticed that already......../sigh

[Kallaroonian]

However.

 

There is something odd about this. First of all in photos it doesn't really look that long. Secondly if you look at the track diagram in that book and ratio the engine shed length off the turntable diameter (which we know to be 26ft from the text) you end up with a shed that is about 130 - 140ft long. Look also at the photo of the empty shed on page 56. Does that look 215ft long? It doesn't to me.

 

I have another photo with a set of quad arts stored adjacent and the shed looks to be 3.5 - 4 carriages long which implies approx 155ft. It's hard t tell from the effects of distance in the photos though. It could be nearer to 4.5 quad art carriages long - at that length it pretty much is 215ft. But that photo on page 56...... it really doesn't look that long at all.

[31A]

Ha. Thanks very much. I feel like a prize chump now; I have that book and have just seen the text you referenced.Somehow just hadn't noticed that already......../sigh

 

No worries you're welcome!  I got the book out thinking I might be able to guess from the photos and / or track diagram, and was quite surprised when the text actually gave a size.

 

However.

 

There is something odd about this. First of all in photos it doesn't really look that long. Secondly if you look at the track diagram in that book and ratio the engine shed length off the turntable diameter (which we know to be 26ft from the text) you end up with a shed that is about 130 - 140ft long. Look also at the photo of the empty shed on page 56. Does that look 215ft long? It doesn't to me.

 

I have another photo with a set of quad arts stored adjacent and the shed looks to be 3.5 - 4 carriages long which implies approx 155ft. It's hard t tell from the effects of distance in the photos though. It could be nearer to 4.5 quad art carriages long - at that length it pretty much is 215ft. But that photo on page 56...... it really doesn't look that long at all.

 

 

The book's text suggests that there were plans to enlarge it but I think it also says this was never done; it looks the same size to me in the early pictures as in the late ones, just that the roof was renewed at some stage.  I wonder whether they've somehow quoted the size it was planned to enlarge it to?  Might it be possible to work out the size from an on line copy of an old large scale map?  I'm about to go out now, but will have another look at this when I get a chance.

[Kallaroonian]

Thanks.

 

Here's the picture I referenced. To avoid upsetting any copyright etc I've just taken a screen scrape of the corner showing the shed. 

 

 

Taking due account of the warping effects of perspective and noting the near end of the shed must surely be in the vicinity of the left edge of the photo you tend towards thinking the shed must be 4 to 4.5 quad art carriages long. Which is getting on for 215ft and aligns with the text. However, that photo on pg56 really doesn't give the impression of the shed being that long. I guess it's the effects of perspective once again

 

rgds

[31A]

Hmm, interesting!  I was thinking about this (but haven't had time to look anything up since my last post) - given that N2s are about 37 feet long that would mean that six could stand on each of the two roads, with the front one sticking out - that seems like quite a lot for a place like that, but may be realistic?

[roythebus]

There's a Hatfield Shed Facebook group if you care to look; it may be a closed group for ex Hatfield men but you may be able to gain access to the content.

 

BTW, my regular mate at KX was an ex Hatfield man, he usually worked the branch to St.Albans. The bean poles in his garden are J53 boiler tubes...sadly he's no longer with us. He had a good few tales about life at Hatfield loco.

Edited June 28, 2016 by roythebus

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The 215 feet long structure was the original dead end shed according to G&H. What was there to be seen at the end of steam was a different structure with one through road, one dead end; which  the plan dated 1947 in G&H estimates at 130 feet (2 chains), and accords with my fading memory and photographs. Roughly three of the 'N's inside under cover on the through road, and two on the dead end.

 

 

Hmm, interesting!  I was thinking about this (but haven't had time to look anything up since my last post) - given that N2s are about 37 feet long that would mean that six could stand on each of the two roads, with the front one sticking out - that seems like quite a lot for a place like that, but may be realistic?

 The allocation at Hatfield peaked at circa 30, mainly N2 and N7, and was still 20 as the  diesels and DMU's substantially began to work the traffic in 1959. As the 'country end' inner suburban loco servicing point, and supplier of traction for most of the work on the three Hatfield branches it was a busy little place.

[31A]

Thank you; I'll have to read the book again, properly!

[Nick Holliday]

Looking at the old-maps website it is possible to compare the original shed, shown on the 1879 map, with what was left from around 1898 until it was demolished - as shown on a 1961 map.  I have superimposed the two maps, with the older one overlaid in green, and it would seem that the length was unchanged, but the new shed was less than half the width of the old.  If the figure of 35' given for the later shed's width is correct, it scales out at around 135' long.

[Kallaroonian]

Well the mystery deepens. So folks are saying the shed was shortened or changed perhaps in 1898 ("what was left from around 1898")

 

I agree the plan in G&H shows a shed about 130ft long if you scale off the 46ft turntable. And that is consistent with the appearance of the photo on pg56 in the same book.

 

The only thing is that image  I pasted above is from a 1959 photo. The shed would have to be aligned with just three quad carriages to come out at around 130ft. I suppose it could be. It's hard to tell with the perspective but it certainly looks longer than that.

 

Thanks for the help. I'll go with 130ft. 

 

rgds

[Kallaroonian]

I have a follow-up on this old topic.

 

That engine shed was rebuilt at some point to have stepped end walls rather than a pitched roof (I assume, the end wall was previously pointed and looked like classic GNR).

 

My questions is - what was the roof like in the rebuilt version? I have few photos - just a couple - but what it looks like from the South end is a stepped end wall with some kind of pitched roof behind because you can see the angle edge of it going across the corner of one of the steps on the west side.

 

But in another photo showing the east side of the shed from a little further away it looks like there is a venting gap running the length of the shed ie roof visible from west side is higher than what little can be seen on east side such that the gap between the two would presumably allow for smoke to exit.

 

I'm wondering if there is a short pitched roof on both sides reaching only some way across the span on each side with another higher roof  then covering the gap but with some separation so that the length of the shed has a vented facing both east and west along the length of the roof. Hope that makes sense.

 

Alternatively there is an asymmetrical rood with a pitch running from the west side and finishing to the east of the building centre line at a height that is above the short (pitched or otherwise) rood leading up from the east wall. This would provide for the long vent arrangement but only on one side of the building ie facing east. But I can't really imagine they would have built something like that

 

Does anyone have a direct memory of this building?