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Andy Y

C&L Finescale

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The one thing about the C&L unit is the pre-drilled tiebar and that the unit can be used with

 

a)  Many different different scales and gauges  

b)  Many different different forms of actuation methods (manual and electrical), or makes of unit

c)  Next to or remote from operating unit/lever

d) Like the Exactoscale unit does away with the tiebar on the surface 

 

The prototype was a third of the size, which I thought was better, the benefits over the Exactoscale unit, a pre-drilled tiebar and the unit can be remote from the operating unit

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1 hour ago, hayfield said:

The one thing about the C&L unit is the pre-drilled tiebar and that the unit can be used with

 

a)  Many different different scales and gauges  

b)  Many different different forms of actuation methods (manual and electrical), or makes of unit

c)  Next to or remote from operating unit/lever

d) Like the Exactoscale unit does away with the tiebar on the surface 

 

The prototype was a third of the size, which I thought was better, the benefits over the Exactoscale unit, a pre-drilled tiebar and the unit can be remote from the operating unit

Firstly the tie bar isn't pre-drilled at least not on the examples I have. This is itself an issue because the tiebar is made from fibreglass for which you really need tungsten carbide drills to do the business. Secondly it's not so much that 'the unit can be remote from the operating unit' that it  has to be remote from the operating unit.

Cheers, David

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David

 

The writing should be etched the holes are pre-drilled 0.5 mm, take the burr off the ends of 0.5 mm rod and it should go through it

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Send it back to Phil and ask for one which has been drilled (As it happened Phil popped in this afternoon and I asked the question)

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12 hours ago, hayfield said:

Send it back to Phil and ask for one which has been drilled (As it happened Phil popped in this afternoon and I asked the question)

I've decided it was a bad buy; I assumed that it would be a replacement for the Exactoscale product (because C&L used to sell it) and I was wrong. The quality control aspects are irrelevant. Ditch it and move on.

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First disappointed customer I am aware of, at the show they flew off the stand, though those I saw sold the buyers had been given a demonstration of the product. Which never included any reference to fitting point motors

 

The Exactoscale bases are still available, but they were designed to be used with the Tortoise motors, I guess there is no guarantee they will work with other products. It will be interesting to get feed back at future shows from those who bought them

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6 hours ago, hayfield said:

First disappointed customer I am aware of, at the show they flew off the stand, though those I saw sold the buyers had been given a demonstration of the product. Which never included any reference to fitting point motors

...

Which supports the view I expressed a few posts ago when I said that I could see how this product could work with solenoids and servos but not with point motors.

Anyway, enough, it doesn't do what I want it to do, so it's time to move on.

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David

 

Pity you are disappointed with the item and I can accept its not a plug and play item, which it seems you required though it never claimed to be. But what suits one person may not suite another. 

 

I do wish to differ with your statement and say It can be used with point motors as well as many other type of manual and switching units including relays. I use Fulgerex/Lemco as I find those similar to tortoise awkward to install.

 

One of the main advantages (as I said earlier) is that you can site the point motor away from the turnout. There is a growing requirement for point motors to be accessible for both maintenance and replacement at the edge of baseboards.  To be quite honest it is a development on the idea/system supplied by Studiolith in the early days of P4. Which is still used today with various home made versions.

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My layout is 4ftX1ft I have no need for remote operation of points!

When the it needs maintenance I just gently tip it over so it's on its side and do the business.

You mentioned Studiolith :ohmyclear: !

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David

 

As I said the design of the C&L unit and the Exactoscale product are to some extent derivatives of the Studiolith product (PW4-50 turnout operating unit)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Studiolith-4mm-Scale-P4-Gauge-Turnout-Operating-Units-x-3-/323799103504?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=lK%2FBybn1bH9JDCCL5Trw%2B7tiZIM%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc

 

I think the original design was by one of the P4 pioneers (Mike Peascod may remember) and made from Swish aluminium curtain track in the early 70's It was developed by Studiolith (I believe they were the P4 sales company at the time) and various other designs have appeared in the ensuing 50 odd years

 

If you are struggling to get an Exactoscale unit I may have one spare in my draw (they usually come in packs  5) 

 

Have a nice day

Edited by hayfield

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At Railex C&L had on display 3D prints of their proposed new EM and P4 flexitrack, sorry about the quality of the photo (down to me and my phone and does not show the real quality of the product.

 

716.jpeg.87f3dd8b34a38eefa29fd2ddf44d155e.jpeg

 

One is in P4 gauge the other in EM gauge, they have been 3D printed and the artwork has been derived from the new 00 gauge flexitrack which will be available within the next couple on months, now the issue with the keys has been resolved. Both these items will benefit from the work that has been carried out developing the 00 gauge track base making the lead time far quicker

 

 

715.jpeg.45680ea60884bb87214615cf4bd7d2d0.jpeg

 

I seemed to have cut off the left had side which from memory 1.5 mm sleeper height & 3 mm chair and rail height, obviously the EM gauge will be 18.2 mm

 

Details will be announced in the Scalefour news in the next month or so, and will be fully keyed unlike other makes 

Edited by hayfield
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On 31/05/2019 at 11:12, hayfield said:

At Railex C&L had on display 3D prints of their proposed new EM and P4 flexitrack, sorry about the quality of the photo (down to me and my phone and does not show the real quality of the product.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/716.jpeg.87f3dd8b34a38eefa29fd2ddf44d155e.jpeg

 

One is in P4 gauge the other in EM gauge, they have been 3D printed and the artwork has been derived from the new 00 gauge flexitrack which will be available within the next couple on months, now the issue with the keys has been resolved. Both these items will benefit from the work that has been carried out developing the 00 gauge track base making the lead time far quicker

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/715.jpeg.45680ea60884bb87214615cf4bd7d2d0.jpeg

 

I seemed to have cut off the left had side which from memory 1.5 mm sleeper height & 3 mm chair and rail height, obviously the EM gauge will be 18.2 mm

 

Details will be announced in the Scalefour news in the next month or so, and will be fully keyed unlike other makes 

John,

 

Any idea of the status of this project - particularly with reference to EM gauge ? The website only has an update on the availability of OO gauge track with EM and P4 offered as a crowd funding option for  £150 ? It may be useful for the owner to post updates on target funding as it's risk / reward for any punters taking this approach. 

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1 minute ago, purplepiepete said:

John,

 

Any idea of the status of this project - particularly with reference to EM gauge ? The website only has an update on the availability of OO gauge track with EM and P4 offered as a crowd funding option for  £150 ? It may be useful for the owner to post updates on target funding as it's risk / reward for any punters taking this approach. 

 

 

Its in the very early stages, as I said the groundwork has been done and the 00 gauge trackbase is available. Initial artwork has as you can see has been developed straight track for both EM and P4 gauges. There is however some more detailed work to be completed, the biggest issue may be one of gauge narrowing when curving the track. Exactoscale sell two versions in their Fast Track range for P4, Phil will need to carefully measure what happens with the 00 gauge track (thankfully 00 gauge tolerances are such that it should not be an issue), IF there is an issue (this has not been established yet) a technical solution would have to be found.  Using a higher grade plastic which does not shrink as much  might be one, adjusting how the tool is used is another, EM is a bit more forgiving than P4 so there is a lot to think about, early stage at the moment, plus it needs crowdfunders to get the ball rolling

 

 

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C & L have come in for some stick over the past year, so I wanted to put on record, they appear to have turned the corner. I placed an order on line on Sunday night, but they still don't have full electronic trading and they ask you to call them with your credit card details. I was golfing Monday morning, so didn't manage to speak to them until early afternoon. I needed some sleeper strips to make some new pointwork and whilst I could wait a few days, a week or two would certainly delay me getting on my layout.

 

Pleased to say I was told they should be out this week, so was very happy when they arrived at lunchtime today, just 48 hours after providing my credit card details. Particularly good as I hadn't paid for overnight delivery.

 

Glad to see Phil is clearly getting on top of the issues he inherited as the world of hand built track would be a lot poorer and far more difficult without C & L.....:good:

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Gordon

 

Thanks for the glowing report as Phil has come in for some stick over the past couple of years, some of it was self inflicted and well deserved, some sadly was from people who had a personal axe to grind. Not only are service levels so much better, the mess he inherited is now sorted out, but for the first time in years there are brand new products arriving with more prommissed 

 

The new C&L track base is out and receiving great feed back from customers, even the Railway Modeller has it in their new product reviews this month (first I have ever seen in recent years) especially as it has keys in the chairs, in 60' panels with 12" sleepers at both ends and J (larger) chairs on them 

 

893.jpeg.eecf6426b0af95c2d2178d6a0114277d.jpeg894.jpeg.2465e7da47152bf0d0cff3748d60f566.jpeg

 

Now on a much thicker base and more compatible with both Peco products and copper clad strip, may even be a P4 version in the offing

 

871.jpeg.23e3bacca04490532f3bf4d991ddcfe4.jpeg

 

Hot on its heals is the new 3 bolt sprue 10 x 3 bolt chairs, 2 x 3 bolt J chairs, 2 x Bridge chairs and two fishplates, a similar 3 bolt sprue is also due early in the new year

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I have no allegiance either way but did see him at Reading showing off a few new products and commented that its good to see hes got through what must have been a difficult period.

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For anyone using the C&L cosmetic plastic fishplates 4FP101A, I just realised something I should have noticed before.

I had installed some and my R2R wheel flanges were hitting them.

I assumed it was as they are too thick to work inside the rail.

However, it turns out that on each spru with 8 fishplates, 4 of them have the rivet heads molded off-centre closer to one edge. So I think those 4 are designed for inside the rails and need to be fitted with the rivet detail towards the bottom edge, and the other 4 with the heads molded along the centre line of the fishplates are for the outside of the rail where they will be more visible. I hope this helps someone to avoid my mistake.  Tom

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14 hours ago, Re6/6 said:

A P4 version would be most welcome.

 

After a quick chat with Phil it will take a bit longer than he thought, firstly there are quite a few areas that need attention and will give a better return in the short term. Phil was hoping crowd funding may have been an option and may still be, but its in the queue and the artwork is nigh on finished

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At one time I was very interested in laying my own track and after buying a small amount of different things figured that I would do it using C&L materials.  Then, there was the problems that I think everyone is familiar with.  I soon put the idea of laying track out of my mind.  Now, however and thankfully, the thought is back on.  While I might never bring this to fruition, I am very happy to see that it appears that C&L is back on track (pun intended).  Let's hope it just continues to get better!

Edited by davefromacrossthepond
typos and grammar mistakes

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I've just tried to search Phil's website but to no avail. All that appears is a blank page with four symbols on it. I registered an e-mail address but still nothing. What am I missing?

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