Stoke Courtenay

[checkrail]

I assume the inspiration comes from the through coaches, 70' footers, for Kingsbridge.  Taken off the express at, if memory serves, Newton Abbot (apologies if Exeter), worked to Brent on a stopper, then added to the branch B Set.

 

You assume correctly!  Many thanks for the info re through workings. I too have read somewhere that the Kingsbridge through coaches were dropped off at either Exeter or Newton Abbott.  (Maybe it changed over time?).  I wasn't sure how they continued their journey, but attachment to a stopper would suit me: the train to which I usually attach the coach will, when coaching stock is all sorted, become a Newton - Plymouth stopper.  Earlsbridge has just one through coach, hence the van composite, as with my restricted space everything including train lengths has to be scaled down. It'll eventually share these duties with a Toplight van compo. Neither can be 70 footers I regret as my curves and clearances rule them out.  Can't have everything, so I invoke modeller's licence.

 

On the return journey my small prairie attaches the TC to the rear of an up train,  There's an informative caption (and great picture) in the Hubback Collection (Hodge, Great Western Pictorial No 2, p75) suggesting that on the 9 am Perranporth - Paddington the Cornish engine was changed for a King at Brent and that the up Kingsbridge through coaches were added to the front of this train at the same time.  If I want to replicate this (which would at least keep the TC at the right end of the train) I'll have to dig up the ballast a bit and add another magnet towards the up end of the up main platform.

 

It might also be worth my reminding anyone trying to work all this out that in my very perfunctory NTB, Stoke Courtenay's 'up' is Brent's 'down'!

 

John C.

Edited September 4, 2016 by checkrail

[Anglian]

John,

 

Could you tell me a little about the station buildings themselves. Are they a commercial product or where they built buy you or for you. I've not kept up with ready made buildings so excuse my ignorance. Did you design and make the road over bridges?

[chrisf]

Apologies for being a little late to the party.  This is a worthy addition to the Brent family!

 

On the issue of through coaches to and from Kingsbridge I will happily bow to Edwardian's superior knowledge re pre-war times.  In the summer of 1948, however, there does not seem to have been a through portion from Paddington on summer Saturdays but there was one from Kingsbridge, comprising 5 coaches and attached to the 8.17 ex Perranporth at Brent.  There was also a through van to and from Paddington.  This was detached at Newton Abbot and attached to a local passenger from there to Brent, where it was attached to the branch passenger.  The return working was possibly a little more complicated than that.  I'll look it up if you like.

 

Through the 50s the Paddington to Kingsbridge portion comprised three coaches and was detached from the 11.0 am Paddington - Penzance at Brent.  The return working comprised six coaches.  How the other three reached Kingsbridge is a Good Question!

 

Chris

[Edwardian]

You assume correctly!  Many thanks for the info re through workings. I too have read somewhere that the Kingsbridge through coaches were dropped off at either Exeter or Newton Abbott.  (Maybe it changed over time?).  I wasn't sure how they continued their journey, but attachment to a stopper would suit me: the train to which I usually attach the coach will, when coaching stock is all sorted, become a Newton - Plymouth stopper.  Earlsbridge has just one through coach, hence the van composite, as with my restricted space everything including train lengths has to be scaled down. It'll eventually share these duties with a Toplight van compo. Neither can be 70 footers I regret as my curves and clearances rule them out.  Can't have everything, so I invoke modeller's licence.

 

On the return journey my small prairie attaches the TC to the rear of an up train,  There's an informative caption (and great picture) in the Hubback Collection (Hodge, Great Western Pictorial No 2, p75) suggesting that on the 9 am Perranporth - Paddington the Cornish engine was changed for a King at Brent and that the up Kingsbridge through coaches were added to the front of this train at the same time.  If I want to replicate this (which would at least keep the TC at the right end of the train) I'll have to dig up the ballast a bit and add another magnet towards the up end of the up main platform.

 

It might also be worth my reminding anyone trying to work all this out that in my very perfunctory NTB, Stoke Courtenay's 'up' is Brent's 'down'!

 

John C.

 

Apologies for being a little late to the party.  This is a worthy addition to the Brent family!

 

On the issue of through coaches to and from Kingsbridge I will happily bow to Edwardian's superior knowledge re pre-war times.  In the summer of 1948, however, there does not seem to have been a through portion from Paddington on summer Saturdays but there was one from Kingsbridge, comprising 5 coaches and attached to the 8.17 ex Perranporth at Brent.  There was also a through van to and from Paddington.  This was detached at Newton Abbot and attached to a local passenger from there to Brent, where it was attached to the branch passenger.  The return working was possibly a little more complicated than that.  I'll look it up if you like.

 

Through the 50s the Paddington to Kingsbridge portion comprised three coaches and was detached from the 11.0 am Paddington - Penzance at Brent.  The return working comprised six coaches.  How the other three reached Kingsbridge is a Good Question!

 

Chris

 

I had to look this up, just to ensure I wasn't passing on confused ramblings.

 

No doubt there were variations over the years.

 

My recollection is that these were 70' vehicles, a Brake Comp on a weekday and 2 (Comp and Brake Third) on a Saturday.  I have yet to pin down the source of my belief that these were 70 footers.

 

So far I have checked the 1932-3 Working timetable:

 

Mondays - Saturdays:

 

10.30am Paddington to Penzance service, which, of course, is the Cornish Riviera Limited, detached a Brake Composite at Exeter.  According to the 1935 timetable, the Limited was booked to arrive at Exeter at 1.21pm.

 

The detached coach was then worked from Exeter on the 1.37pm.  I believe that this was an Exeter to Plymouth stopper.  The 1935 departure time is 1.32pm.  This might enable you to work out the time it called at Brent (I'd be interested to know what you think, sometime around 3pm?) and, therefore, which of the Branch trains conveyed the vehicle on to Kingsbridge.   

 

The return working appears to be via the 11.15am ex Plymouth.  I take this to be a Plymouth to Exeter service.  The 1935 departure time is 11am.   At Newton Abbot, the coach came off and was attached to the 11.25 am Kingswear to Paddington.

 

Saturdays (from 3 June and presumably on into the Summer timetable):

 

10.55am Paddington to Penzance service: Compo and Brake Third for Kingsbridge.  No information is given as to where they were detached, how conveyed onward, or how worked back, but I decided pretty early on that I was not going to attempt to depict Summer Saturday traffic, so have not taken this further.

[checkrail]

I had to look this up, just to ensure I wasn't passing on confused ramblings.

 

No doubt there were variations over the years.

 

My recollection is that these were 70' vehicles, a Brake Comp on a weekday and 2 (Comp and Brake Third) on a Saturday.  I have yet to pin down the source of my belief that these were 70 footers.

 

So far I have checked the 1932-3 Working timetable:

 

Mondays - Saturdays:

 

10.30am Paddington to Penzance service, which, of course, is the Cornish Riviera Limited, detached a Brake Composite at Exeter.  According to the 1935 timetable, the Limited was booked to arrive at Exeter at 1.21pm.

 

The detached coach was then worked from Exeter on the 1.37pm.  I believe that this was an Exeter to Plymouth stopper.  The 1935 departure time is 1.32pm.  This might enable you to work out the time it called at Brent (I'd be interested to know what you think, sometime around 3pm?) and, therefore, which of the Branch trains conveyed the vehicle on to Kingsbridge.   

 

The return working appears to be via the 11.15am ex Plymouth.  I take this to be a Plymouth to Exeter service.  The 1935 departure time is 11am.   At Newton Abbot, the coach came off and was attached to the 11.25 am Kingswear to Paddington.

 

Saturdays (from 3 June and presumably on into the Summer timetable):

 

10.55am Paddington to Penzance service: Compo and Brake Third for Kingsbridge.  No information is given as to where they were detached, how conveyed onward, or how worked back, but I decided pretty early on that I was not going to attempt to depict Summer Saturday traffic, so have not taken this further.

 

Thanks Edwardian and chrisf for this info.  I can't replicate through coach workings as per Kingsbridge in all their complexity,  but I find them fascinating.  At the Christmas MMRS show I picked up a copy of Semmens' 'GWR passenger train services', hoping it would throw some light on the subject but unfortunately it didn't (or not as much as I'd hoped).  But the whole business of splitting trains, attaching and detaching coaches/portions, and the various engine movements all that required is full of interest.

 

John C.

[checkrail]

John,

 

Could you tell me a little about the station buildings themselves. Are they a commercial product or where they built buy you or for you. I've not kept up with ready made buildings so excuse my ignorance. Did you design and make the road over bridges?

 

Anglian,

 

The station buildings are from Timber Tracks kits, the main one being based on that at Tetbury (rather a different type of station).  I first saw its mate, the island platform building, on Brian Lewis's stand at Warley a couple of years ago.  My heart leaped as I realised that it could well be the answer to a prayer if (fingers crossed) it would fit my already built and fixed (and slightly curved) platform and track layout.  A brief email correspondence with Brian re all the critical dimensions showed that it would - cleverly Brian had designed it to allow for the fact that most modellers would be working to the minimum permissible platform width and clearances.

 

The kits - from laser cut ply and mdf - are well designed, and satisfyingly complex and enjoyable to put together.  They were finished in the manner recommended by Karl Crowther, by painting all over with a sandy colour for the mortar then adding the brick tones by dry-brushing, a technique then new to me.  This needed several applications until the final brick colour emerged, a good match with the supplied finish of my Kernow Models/Bachmann signal box. 

 

The buildings sit in a recess cut to their exact footprint in the plasticard paving sheet which covers the central part of the platforms, avoiding any tell-tale gaps.  All in all I'm very pleased with the results.

 

The kits also included some exquisite laser etched GWR poster boards and signs ('Gentlemen' etc.).  I'm afraid my skills weren't up to painting these (white on black) to a standard I could live with, in spite of several attempts, so I used printed poster boards from Sankey Scenics and others, mounted on plasticard backing, and printed out most of the other various signs using the GWR font available through the GWR e-list group.

 

 

 

 

The bridges and tunnel were scratchbuilt (unusual for Mr Impatient here) from various thicknesses of plasticard and inscribed stone sheet, being based loosely on those seen in various GWR photo albums - especially M F Yarwood's 'Window on the Great Western'.  The one shown below, masking the down end fiddle yard entrance, is based on one near the top of Hemerdon bank.

 

 

The next one is similar to one at Thornford Bridge Halt between Yeovil and Weymouth - in fact the elliptical arch was traced from the actual photo in the book as it was reproduced there as near as dammit to 4mm scale!  When building this I found that Slater's stone sheet could easily be made to represent curved stone courses by slicing and laying a maximum of two courses at a time.

 

 

 

The rail overbridge is freelance, but based on photographs in said albums, and uses Ratio/Wills  'vari-girder'.

 

 

Finally, the tunnel mouth is based on pics of the Severn Tunnel in 'The Great Western Railway in the 1930s' albums but not quite as big!

 

.

 

John C.

Edited September 19, 2016 by checkrail

[gwrrob]

Really beautiful buildings and structures. Craftsmanship button doesn't do them justice.

[Anglian]

John,

 

Thank you of rush a detailed explanation. I'm very impressed by the station buildings and your scratch build civil engineering features. I could quite happily sit and look at hundreds of images of your layout. What are you working on at the moment?

[Miss Prism]

Dropdead gorgeous.

 

Link on gwr.org.uk coming up!!

[checkrail]

Phase 2 of the Stoke Courtenay project, 'Tarting up the trains', is now under way, although there are still one or two Phase 1 layout details to complete, e.g. signal box interior.  As ever my aim is to use anything suitable the trade provides to achieve a recognisably GWR main line atmosphere insofar as my skills and time allow, so not everything will necessarily be totally correct.  But none of it's going into a glass case or a museum!

 

It's been a while since I posted any pics on this thread, so here's a sequence showing a recently outshopped train, representing a Star-hauled Wolverhampton - Penzance express, traversing the length of the layout. Coaches will be immediately recognisable as a mixture of Bachmann and Hornby.  The latter have had their rather vivid scarlet droplights repainted, while all have received paper bellows type gangways, roof re-sprays with Lifecolor roof dirt, and some Lifecolor frame dirt dry-brushed onto the underframes. Roof boards are from Sankey Scenics.  The restaurant car is an upgrade of the old Hornby Railroad H33 vehicle grafted onto a new Hornby Collett underframe.  There's plenty of good recent stuff on this forum about enhancing this model - seems a very popular conversion.  (Not surprising really as for RTR GWR catering vehicles it's the only game in town.) 

 

There's still work to do.  Although 'Knight of the Grand Cross' now has lamps (Modelu) it still needs crew, real coal and dummy screw coupling.  Brass name & no. plates are to hand, but not yet applied.  I'm going to post the pics in batches - there are 17 of them.  Hope they are of interest.

 

John C.

 

 

 

 

 

[checkrail]

... and here are a few more.

 

 

 

 

John C.

[checkrail]

.... and there's more!

 

The coaches are semi-permanently coupled by simple wire hooks and loops, with the same 0.8mm brass wire being used to fashion a crude representation of vac and steam heating pipes. Coupling is as close as I could get allowing for the fact that the train needs to negotiate the inside curve of Peco curved points in the fiddleyard - think that's about 2 ft radius.  So on straight track buffers are about 3 or 4mm apart - not ideal but best I could manage. It also needed careful adjustment of the gangways before the train was derailment-free.  But having never built a train with corridor connections before I'm delighted by the sinuous way it weaves round the curves, looking all of a piece rather than a collection of individual vehicle rattling around independently.

 

 

 

 

 

[checkrail]

And here are the last few pics as the train heads west under the overbridge towards Plymouth.   (Tail lamp is from Modelu.  I'm eventually going to replace the gangway end boards with ones with integral lamp brackets.)

 

 

 

 

 

John C.

 

 

[gwrrob]

Beau-ti-ful.

[Ramblin Rich]

Great to see these. I'm sure I'm not the only one who worried that you might have given up posting here!

Any chance of a close up of your coupling and corridor arrangements? It does look very effective to have the rake as a whole unit, not discrete vehicles.

[Revolution Mike B]

I still haven't changed my opinion on Steam John, but this is rapidly becoming one of my favourite threads on RMWeb and I'm so glad you've kept on putting up new posts.

 

Mike

[Bulwell Hall]

Phase 2 of the Stoke Courtenay project, 'Tarting up the trains', is now under way, although there are still one or two Phase 1 layout details to complete, e.g. signal box interior.  As ever my aim is to use anything suitable the trade provides to achieve a recognisably GWR main line atmosphere insofar as my skills and time allow, so not everything will necessarily be totally correct.  But none of it's going into a glass case or a museum!

 

It's been a while since I posted any pics on this thread, so here's a sequence showing a recently outshopped train, representing a Star-hauled Wolverhampton - Penzance express, traversing the length of the layout. Coaches will be immediately recognisable as a mixture of Bachmann and Hornby.  The latter have had their rather vivid scarlet droplights repainted, while all have received paper bellows type gangways, roof re-sprays with Lifecolor roof dirt, and some Lifecolor frame dirt dry-brushed onto the underframes. Roof boards are from Sankey Scenics.  The restaurant car is an upgrade of the old Hornby Railroad H33 vehicle grafted onto a new Hornby Collett underframe.  There's plenty of good recent stuff on this forum about enhancing this model - seems a very popular conversion.  (Not surprising really as for RTR GWR catering vehicles it's the only game in town.) 

 

There's still work to do.  Although 'Knight of the Grand Cross' now has lamps (Modelu) it still needs crew, real coal and dummy screw coupling.  Brass name & no. plates are to hand, but not yet applied.  I'm going to post the pics in batches - there are 17 of them.  Hope they are of interest.

 

John C.

 

Star & train 001-min.JPG

 

Star & train 002-min.JPG

 

Star & train 003-min.JPG

 

Star & train 004-min.JPG

 

Star & train 005-min.JPG

Fabulous!

[steaming_chris]

... and here are a few more.

 

Star & train 006-min.JPG

 

 

John C.

Hi John,

 

if you don't mind me asking, what did you use to create the road surface and pavement ?

Great photography by the way. I like your modelling aspect of "less is more"

 

Regards

[Edwardian]

Not sure how this topic has eluded me hitherto, but very well observed and beautifully modelled.

 

A visual treat indeed.

[checkrail]

Great to see these. I'm sure I'm not the only one who worried that you might have given up posting here!

 

 

 

I still haven't changed my opinion on Steam John, but this is rapidly becoming one of my favourite threads on RMWeb and I'm so glad you've kept on putting up new posts.

 

Mike

 

Thanks gentlemen.  I'll keep 'em coming.

 

Only the other day I was reflecting how, with the digital revolution in general and sites like this and gwr.org.uk in particular, even the most permanent of layouts (like mine, screwed into loft floor, walls and rafters) can now go on a sort of permanent virtual exhibition circuit.  I know that keeping up with layouts I admire (ANTB for one) has become one of life's dependable little pleasures.  So if people like sharing my stuff that's great.

 

John C.

[Douglas G]

Beautiful modelling - really inspiring!

[Londontram]

Well what can I say, absolutely outstanding barely sums it up. There's so many ideas in this layout that I'd like to put into my layout (If I ever pull my finger out and start it) The beauty is the way it fits into the landscape with an almost perfect balance neither looking crowded or lost amongst the scenery.

 

   Thank you for posting the pictures of what must be one of the best layouts I've seen on here.

                                                                                                                                        Steve

Edited November 22, 2016 by Londontram

[checkrail]

Any chance of a close up of your coupling and corridor arrangements? It does look very effective to have the rake as a whole unit, not discrete vehicles.

 

Sure Rich - but close ups are cruel!  There's not much finesse about my coupling arrangements, though at normal viewing angles and distances they're not noticed.

 

First two pics show connections between two Hornby Colletts.  The gangways were from a number I bought via eBay 3 or 4 years ago, under the name of 'Great Little Gangways' - a cottage industry sort of supplier I guess.  Can't find them on the web now, but they can easily be home made from folded paper and plastikard end boards.  The paper BTW is folded in two parallel concertinas, rather than being interlinked in a slotted criss-cross pattern as in the MJT versions with brass ends.  I find this works better for me. They also have a canopy strip of very light fabric which is glued into the inner end only to allow for flexing (though it does tend to ride up a bit in service. I attach the gangways to the coach ends with double-sided Scotch tape so that they can be removed easily if I need to shorten them or make other adjustments.

 

As I've said recently in another thread one of the good things about the new Hornby coaches is that its easy to remove the moulded plastic gangways while leaving the gangway suspension arms intact, ready to nestle on each side of the new paper gangways. 

 

 

When it came to the old Hornby clerestories I used the Keen Systems replacement coach ends with floating end plates, because they carry a representation of the scissors mechanism characteristic of older coaches of this sort.  Two pics below.

 

 

Some careful adjustment was needed in the cases where coaches needed to be uncoupled from rakes, e.g. for through coach detachment.  I use small Bachmann T/L couplings with the Brian Kirby modification for remote magnetic uncoupling.  This requires vehicles to be closed up a little to take the tension off the couplings and allow the hooks to rise.  There was a bit of a trade-off here between having gangways too slack and seeing daylight between them or too stiff causing the vehicle to be pushed along the track by the gangway before the coupling had a chance to come out of tension. It wasn't insoluble, but I've just bought some rather lighter, thinner black paper to experiment with my own home made gangways.

 

John C.

[checkrail]

Hi John,

 

if you don't mind me asking, what did you use to create the road surface and pavement ?

 

Hi Chris

 

The road surfaces are actually nothing more than painted plywood.  I used the 1.5mm ply which was left over from the curved backscene.  Paint was from a tub of cheap light grey matt emulsion, mixed with some browns from matchpots to give a sort of dusty look.  I know we all perceive colours and textures differently, but I aimed for a pale and rather neutral look.  I also think it makes things look bigger.  Pavements outside the station and under the rail overbridge are from Slater's Plastikard paving.  I couldn't face the prospect of cutting and applying this all the way up the curving and inclined station approach so opted for a cinder path - Carr's ash ballast on top of thin card, with kerb stones from plastikard.

 

I think texture can be overdone, especially when you think of the scale distance between your eye and the layout you're viewing.  It's easy to make things look too 'busy' on the eye. I started off 4 years ago covering my platforms with the finest grade of emery paper I could find, on a (quite expensive) long roll to avoid joins.  But I painted and repainted it so many times until I was happy with the shade (and to cover up splashes from ongoing track and S & T work) that its texture all but disappeared and I might as well have used cartridge paper. At first I was disappointed, but then I realised I'd lost nothing!

 

There's one exception: the country lane/cart track shown below which crosses the bridge masking the westbound fiddle yard entrance.  This was done using Treemendous earth powder, with a ridge of static grass applied down the middle.  Have so far resisted the temptation to have a horse & cart coming round the bend!

 

 

(Whoops!  To the left of the bridge you can just see the pcb join where C & L track meets Peco Streamline in the fiddle yard.)

 

John C.

 

.

[Ramblin Rich]

Sure Rich - but close ups are cruel!  There's not much finesse about my coupling arrangements, though at normal viewing angles and distances they're not noticed.

 

First two pics show connections between two Hornby Colletts.  The gangways were from a number I bought via eBay 3 or 4 years ago, under the name of 'Great Little Gangways' - a cottage industry sort of supplier I guess.  Can't find them on the web now, but they can easily be home made from folded paper and plastikard end boards.  The paper BTW is folded in two parallel concertinas, rather than being interlinked in a slotted criss-cross pattern as in the MJT versions with brass ends.  I find this works better for me. They also have a canopy strip of very light fabric which is glued into the inner end only to allow for flexing (though it does tend to ride up a bit in service. I attach the gangways to the coach ends with double-sided Scotch tape so that they can be removed easily if I need to shorten them or make other adjustments.

 

As I've said recently in another thread one of the good things about the new Hornby coaches is that its easy to remove the moulded plastic gangways while leaving the gangway suspension arms intact, ready to nestle on each side of the new paper gangways. 

 

Gangways etc. 001-min.JPG

Gangways etc. 002-min.JPG

 

When it came to the old Hornby clerestories I used the Keen Systems replacement coach ends with floating end plates, because they carry a representation of the scissors mechanism characteristic of older coaches of this sort.  Two pics below.

 

Gangways etc. 003-min.JPG

Gangways etc. 004-min.JPG

 

Some careful adjustment was needed in the cases where coaches needed to be uncoupled from rakes, e.g. for through coach detachment.  I use small Bachmann T/L couplings with the Brian Kirby modification for remote magnetic uncoupling.  This requires vehicles to be closed up a little to take the tension off the couplings and allow the hooks to rise.  There was a bit of a trade-off here between having gangways too slack and seeing daylight between them or too stiff causing the vehicle to be pushed along the track by the gangway before the coupling had a chance to come out of tension. It wasn't insoluble, but I've just bought some rather lighter, thinner black paper to experiment with my own home made gangways.

 

John C.

Thanks John, that's really helpful. I've seen mention somewhere of using black bin liner plastic to form the canopy over the gangways which seems a good idea to me. I assume the hook-and-loop couplings rely on the buffers if propelling the rake?