RMweb Gold checkrail Posted August 9, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Mike_Walker said: This picture might be of interest. Indeed it is. Oh for enough space to operate long through portions like that, forming and re-forming trains from and to multiple destinations, instead of my token effort of one measly through coach. How much more interesting than shunting wagons. But rather large compromises have to be made to squeeze some impression of a mainline junction station into a space 13' x 10' approx.! 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Limpley Stoker Posted August 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2021 Yes, but you have given the impression of enough space which is all that matters! Mr Philo had the space but didn’t show much of the action from what I remember! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted August 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2021 52 minutes ago, checkrail said: >>>> But rather large compromises have to be made to squeeze some impression of a mainline junction station into a space 13' x 10' approx.! I know how you feel but you’re doing a mighty fine job! I’d say you’re an excellent illusionist! 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Mike_Walker said: This picture might be of interest. It shows 5573 propelling the through coaches to Paddington off the 10:50 from Kingsbridge onto the Up Main at Brent. It would then run-round before taking them on to Newton Abbott where, presumably, they would be combined with a portion off the Torbay branch. 24 June 1961 apparently. Now that's interesting! It appears to have been taken just a minute or two before this one: Our man has now walked to the other end of the crossover to clip it up. The original comment regarding drawing forward into the Up Loop then propelling the TCs on to the rear of the main train now makes more sense. Would that fellow have been the guard, a porter or what? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Mike_Walker said: This picture might be of interest. It shows 5573 propelling the through coaches to Paddington off the 10:50 from Kingsbridge onto the Up Main at Brent. It would then run-round before taking them on to Newton Abbott where, presumably, they would be combined with a portion off the Torbay branch. 24 June 1961 apparently. I dont think I have seen that photo before, its a pretty useful one for scenic detailing (even if it is a bit late). I think I need to start adding grass to that loading dock... Nice to see an earlier view of the same movement (in colour too!) Its a shame that (as far as I can tell) this working hadnt returned in the late 40s, although I think I will have to do something similar as a special... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post checkrail Posted August 10, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2021 Nearly there .... .... now coupled up. 5041 gets the right of way and they're off! And as the end of the train disappears into Stoke Courtenay tunnel 6305 emerges with a westbound goods - but that's another story. John C. 34 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold checkrail Posted August 10, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 13 hours ago, Limpley Stoker said: Mr Philo had the space but didn’t show much of the action from what I remember! Thanks Mike - it's nice that you remember my initial inspiration in my first ever copy of RM in February 1959. Visions of that layout have been in my mind ever since - a powerful influence and a look to aspire to. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold checkrail Posted August 10, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 13 hours ago, TrevorP1 said: 14 hours ago, checkrail said: >>>> But rather large compromises have to be made to squeeze some impression of a mainline junction station into a space 13' x 10' approx.! I know how you feel but you’re doing a mighty fine job! I’d say you’re an excellent illusionist! Thanks Trevor. Throughout I've been heeding the mantras "Less is more" and "Simplify and omit", and trying to resist the temptation to fill every space with a feature or cameo, leaving what is present with "room to breathe" as Andy Y. puts it. That too is probably the influence of Mr Philo's layout. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 18 hours ago, Mike_Walker said: It shows 5573 propelling the through coaches to Paddington off the 10:50 from Kingsbridge onto the Up Main at Brent. It would then run-round before taking them on to Newton Abbott My brain is dead this morning, so I can't remember what banks (Rattery?) were between South Brent and NA, but I'm a bit surprised 5573 haul 5 bogies over them. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 18 hours ago, Harlequin said: Is that someone crouching over the near crossover points? Possibly unclipping them??? (A good pose for a new Modelu figure. ) That is exactly what he is doing - clearly visible if you enlarge the picture 3 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: My brain is dead this morning, so I can't remember what banks (Rattery?) were between South Brent and NA, but I'm a bit surprised 5573 haul 5 bogies over them. Going down Rattery but then climbing from Ashburton Jcn to Dainton Siding. 5 coaches was well within the 55XX permitted load of 210 tons. 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: Going down Rattery but then climbing from Ashburton Jcn to Dainton Siding. 5 coaches was well within the 55XX permitted load of 210 tons. However, I'm pretty sure the TCs were attached at Brent not NA. The 55 would have gone back to its branch train and pottered off back to Kingsbridge. 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold checkrail Posted August 10, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: 22 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: My brain is dead this morning, so I can't remember what banks (Rattery?) were between South Brent and NA, but I'm a bit surprised 5573 haul 5 bogies over them. Going down Rattery but then climbing from Ashburton Jcn to Dainton Siding. 5 coaches was well within the 55XX permitted load of 210 tons. Yes, but if we go by Mike Roach's accompanying description of the Morant collection photo 5573 wasn't going there anyway - it was merely attaching the ex-Kingsbridge portion to the back of an eastbound express before resuming other duties. (That's made me wonder - what gradients were there on the Kingsbridge branch?) 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 I'm totally confused now! 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, checkrail said: Yes, but if we go by Mike Roach's accompanying description of the Morant collection photo 5573 wasn't going there anyway - it was merely attaching the ex-Kingsbridge portion to the back of an eastbound express before resuming other duties. (That's made me wonder - what gradients were there on the Kingsbridge branch?) Crikey, John, you do know how to distract a bloke from what he's supposed to be doing! Ruling gradients (not the complete gradient profile) on the Kingsbridge Branch, from the Summer 1952 Service Timetable: Brent - Avonwick 1 in 50 falling Avonwick - Gara Bridge 1 in 83 falling Gara Bridge - Topsham Crossing 1 in 110 falling Topsham Crossing - Loddiswell 1 in 50 rising Loddiswell - Stop Board (at 10M 64C) 1 in 50 rising Stop Board - Kingsbridge 1 in 50 falling Freight trains stopped at the Stop Board to pin down (Down trains) or pick up (Up trains) brakes. Standard Loads of Passenger, Parcels, Milk and Fish trains for Engine Working Purposes, from the 1945 Service Timetable Appendix: 44xx/45xx/55xx 200 tons, 0-6-0T 144 tons, 0-4-2T 120 tons Just to round it off, in Summer 1952 the 1055 SO Kingsbridge - Brent consisted only of the through coaches to Paddington, arriving at Brent at 1127. The through coaches were attached by the Branch engine to the rear of the 1115 Plymouth, which arrived at Brent at 1145 and departed at 1154. The Branch engine ran light back to Kingsbridge, departing Brent at 1153 and arriving at Kingsbridge at 1220. As I said in a talk to the British Railway Modellers of Australia a couple of years ago, it's amazing what timetables can tell you apart from the times of the trains! Edited August 10, 2021 by St Enodoc 1 1 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold checkrail Posted August 10, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: Just to round it off, in Summer 1952 the 1055 SO Kingsbridge - Brent consisted only of the through coaches to Paddington, arriving at Brent at 1127. The through coaches were attached by the Branch engine to the rear of the 1115 Plymouth, which arrived at Brent at 1145 and departed at 1154. The Branch engine ran light back to Kingsbridge, departing Brent at 1153 and arriving at Kingsbridge at 1220. Great stuff John - completes the story, and hopefully ends any confusion! Thanks. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike_Walker Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 Oh dear, I seem to have opened a can of worms! Hopefully we've now got to the bottom of things. Mike 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted August 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, St Enodoc said: As I said in a talk to the British Railway Modellers of Australia a couple of years ago, it's amazing what timetables can tell you apart from the times of the trains! As one brought up on ‘modern’ (i.e. 70s onwards) WTTs it was a revelation to find what was in 50s and 60s equivalents. Paul. Edited August 11, 2021 by 5BarVT Tryping 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2021 7 hours ago, 5BarVT said: As one brought up on ‘modern’ (i.e. 70s onwards) WTTs it was a revelation to find what was in 50s and 60s equivalents. Paul. All part of the shifting sands of source locations over the years. By the 1970s you needed about half a dozen different documents to find out what had been in three only 30 years previously (f you're talking about the GWR/WR that is, different if talking about other Companies) 2 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Coach bogie Posted August 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2021 On 10/08/2021 at 12:04, checkrail said: Yes, but if we go by Mike Roach's accompanying description of the Morant collection photo 5573 wasn't going there anyway - it was merely attaching the ex-Kingsbridge portion to the back of an eastbound express before resuming other duties. (That's made me wonder - what gradients were there on the Kingsbridge branch?) I have just been showing David Geen, with his vast amount of data, the photograph. From his information 5573 is only half way through the shunt. It is not pushing back onto a east bound express as the platform is empty. When clear of the crossover, the shunter/signalman will unclip the points and clip the set on the up line. The points to the up refuge(up loop by this time) which will be set for the loop and also clipped. 5573 will then pull the stock wrong line, into the up refuge/loop. The points will be un-clipped and the road set for an up express. When the up express arrives,the shunter/signalman will indicate to the express crew when the last coach is clear of the up refuge points. Then points from the up refuge will be cleared and the trap points clipped. The shunter/signalman will wave the Kingsbridge portion onto the back of the express. As the driver does not have a clear view, the fireman will stand on the down main relaying instructions from the shunter/signalman to the driver to enable the Kingsbridge portion to buffer up to the back of the express. Once coupled, the tail lamp will be moved to the coach coupled to 5573, which will now be uncoupled. If time, the corridor connections will be connected but often the connecting doors were locked out to save time and connected at Newton Abbott where there was usually a more generous stop time.. Once cleared by the guard, the express will depart with the Kingsbridge section attached (note some of this portion will still be on the up refuge/loop when departing). When the section is cleared 5573 will be allowed back into the platform. The up refuge trap points will then be un-clipped and the shunter/signalman will return to the box. If the down main is clear 5573 will be allowed to shunt back into the Kingsbridge platform. I hope this all makes sense. David demonstrated all this on his Brent layout. Mike Wiltshire 6 1 11 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted August 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2021 His unmade coach kits are going for 200 sheets on eBay at the moment. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 1 hour ago, gwrrob said: His unmade coach kits are going for 200 sheets on eBay at the moment. Crazy when he will sell you them at his normal price. I came away with an M13 van today. His clerestory TPO is almost there. His new K22 is also ready. I did not go there as I have several built and definitely do not need another. Mike Wiltshire 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Coach bogie said: Then points from the up refuge will be cleared and the trap points clipped. Agree with everything, Mike, except this bit. By 1963, at least, the exit from the Up Loop had an FPL. 2 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post checkrail Posted August 12, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2021 Here's 6305 with its down goods train still emerging from the tunnel. (Note to self: paint the back of the bridge pillars and/or learn to clone colours on Affinity.) Mogul now heading through the station limits. That express must have got away sharpish as I see the up line is already clear for another train. (Or perhaps I just forgot to put the signal back to danger!) Having run round its train 5557 can be seen departing for Earlsbridge, with the through coach excitement over until the down through service arrives later in the day. John C. 28 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bogie Posted August 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2021 (Note to self: paint the back of the bridge pillars and/or learn to clone colours on Affinity.) Ain't it the way. Until you pointed that out I would never have noticed. The question is, should I have noticed earlier? 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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