Stoke Courtenay

[checkrail]

1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

I sat down to make a pair this afternoon, only to realise I dont have the instructions. 

Good excuse Rich!  But if you do come back to look at them again I'd be happy to photocopy the instructions and post them to you. 

 

John.

[Coach bogie]

4 hours ago, checkrail said:

Thanks for this Mike. You've got a regular production line going!  They look good.  After your recent 'heads up' over on ANTB I bought a pair of the C16 sides from Worsley, so that's the next project.  Any hints or tips welcome.

 

I also realise that you commissioned the D33 sides from WW.  What was your source of pics and info?  Russell (Part 1, p.186) says that D33 was originally described as a 'brake 1st kitchen car' (?!) and going by the 1900 picture (fig. 170) a heck of a lot of alterations had been made by your period.  Might have a go at one of these once I've worked my way through the rest of my stash of unbuilt kits.  (I note that like the D29 it's heavy on luggage space at the expense of passenger seating, so might not be appropriate at the other end of the M set.)

 

 

The D33 started off a a project by Jason Brumby, who wanted the as built version. Jason succeeded in tracking down a plan which showed the interior layout and one side. I got involved in trying source images and trace the build/rebuild history. The challenge was the other side which started off as guesswork. When the image below, came to light. Luckily we got it right  I was more interested in the 1930's condition. I asked Allen at Worsley Works if he would consider the 1917(doors added to seating bays, still with lookout) and 1928 versions (lookout removed and electric lighting) and I am very grateful to Allen for indulging me with this. To put on him even more, I asked for the later versions to fit the Hornby shell, as there is little point in spending time building a full kit when the Hornby body is a great starting point. For the 1930's version, I chose not used the roof etch but plated it over as the image. It was Allen at Worsley Works who suggested plating out the body panels for which again, I am really grateful he spent the extra time doing this.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

[The Fatadder]

2 hours ago, checkrail said:

Good excuse Rich!  But if you do come back to look at them again I'd be happy to photocopy the instructions and post them to you. 

 

John.

thanks, if you could email me a photo of

that page it would be appreciated.  May as well have a go at it I suppose...

[The Fatadder]

A follow up Toplight question if I may, how have you (or any others who have built them) glued the roof onto the body.  
 

im finding the fit is not that good, and requires a fair bit of pressure to hold down both ends.

[Neal Ball]

4 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

A follow up Toplight question if I may, how have you (or any others who have built them) glued the roof onto the body.  
 

im finding the fit is not that good, and requires a fair bit of pressure to hold down both ends.

Yes I seem to remember that Rich. 

I ended up shaving off quite a bit from the interior partitions. 
 

Take comfort you are not alone!

 

I also seem to remember I had issues getting the side walls straight...

 

But they look good in photos.... not running! Just stationary lol

 

[The Fatadder]

Getting straight sides were also a bit of a pain on mine, much prefer brass!  
 

hopefully will

get the roof on tonight...
 

 

[checkrail]

I too seem to remember having to hack bits off the internal partitions to get the roof to fit.  Got some more to make, so will be revisiting Memory Lane sometime this year.

 

Btw Rich, I've just PM'ed you with Slater's gangway instructions.

 

John C.

[checkrail]

Showing the compartment side now, here's the D29 on an eastbound stopper, in the charge of 4908 Broome Hall.  (Must have somehow got turned round on the triangle at Laira?)

 

 

 

It's been an interesting conversion to do.  My MO once again was to fettle and decorate the sides first, as per a PC coach kit.  I just didn't fancy trying to get the glazing in afterwards, especially the luggage grilles and corridor side handrails, so I just kept checking for clearance at every stage.  There was nothing in the instructions about forming a tumblehome but I did it anyway, using two lengths of bullnose skirting board as per the Comet Coaches manual.   New to me were the door handles on their little 'pads' or bases. I stuck them onto a piece of double-sided tape and primed, then painted them brown, while doing the coach sides.  When dry I rubbed a fine abrasive stick over the raised bit to reveal the brass handle, and stuck the bases to the coach sides.  The grab handles were a surprise too, having no little prongs with which to attach them to holes in the coach side.  Once again I stuck them to some tape, then polished the brass before sticking them on with cyano.  For these jobs I used Deluxe Roket Odourless which is claimed to be 'non-blooming'.  So it proved - it's v useful stuff.  (This is my first use of it, but my second bottle.  The first one went solid before I opened it, so I think the lesson is not to leave it in the loft over winter. Same goes for Railmatch paints btw.)   

 

John C.

[checkrail]

Last two of the D29 for now as 4908 heads towards the tunnel.

 

I've mentioned lining earlier, but the basic painting needed a bit of care.  Spraying with cream from a Railmatch rattle can was easy ('cos it was a Railmatch rattle can that actually worked!) but the brown (Railmatch again) had to be brush painted.  Once again it's the panelling that causes the problem.  If the upper side is masked, and the tape is applied in line with the bottom of the bolections it invites upwards seepage of the brown, if sprayed.  I suppose one could spray the brown first, then mask up to the bottom of the bolections (much more straightforward), but I don't know how many coats of cream it might take to cover the brown.

 

Incidentally, I think perhaps the cream looks a little too clean, and that a bit of light weathering might bring out the relief panelling better.  Just have to be careful not to ruin it.

 

John C.

[Coach bogie]

On my kit build coaches, I glue an inner false ceiling into the roof made from plastic sheet. I then fix a second but narrower piece of plastic that fits snug between the sides. This acts as an additional surface for fixing the roof and also keeps the sided parallel and stop any accidental squeezing inwards of the sides with handling.

 

I started this originally for brass coaches where the thickness of the etch can be a little thin with some sides and liable for distortion with repeated handling. I now use this method on brass, aluminium and plastic sides.

 

I  have just one of the Slater's toplights, (only because the diagrams produced were the same as the Blacksmith toplights I already had), and used this method. It required some forward planning with the interior, but made the body much stronger, and helps prevent long term warping of plastic roof sections.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[The Fatadder]

A very good solution, which I will keep in mind for future builds.  
I think for mine I will chop back the top of the partitions to get some more clearance (as I did on the clesterory Toplight build. 

[checkrail]

@KNP's acquisition of a conflat and GWR furniture container over at Little Muddle reminded me of my own ancient specimen.  Like Kevin, I reckon the chain (all I found in the spares box a few weeks back) might be a bit heavy (and I haven't bothered with turnbuckles or screwlink fastenings etc. - beyond my skill & patience I'm afraid).  And there's no chain on the other side - I didn't have enough.  But I've been meaning to show it here ever since Bob @81C gently chided me some months back for running a train with an unsecured container.

 

 

John C.

Edited May 10, 2020 by checkrail
miskey

[bgman]

1 hour ago, checkrail said:

I reckon the chain (all I found in the spares box a few weeks back) might be a bit heavy

 

Hi John,

 

Maybe replacing them with some fine wires carefully twisted together could give you a better impression ? Just a thought.

 

G

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by bgman

[Barry Ten]

12 hours ago, checkrail said:

Last two of the D29 for now as 4908 heads towards the tunnel.

 

 

I've mentioned lining earlier, but the basic painting needed a bit of care.  Spraying with cream from a Railmatch rattle can was easy ('cos it was a Railmatch rattle can that actually worked!) but the brown (Railmatch again) had to be brush painted.  Once again it's the panelling that causes the problem.  If the upper side is masked, and the tape is applied in line with the bottom of the bolections it invites upwards seepage of the brown, if sprayed.  I suppose one could spray the brown first, then mask up to the bottom of the bolections (much more straightforward), but I don't know how many coats of cream it might take to cover the brown.

 

 

Incidentally, I think perhaps the cream looks a little too clean, and that a bit of light weathering might bring out the relief panelling better.  Just have to be careful not to ruin it.

 

John C.

 

One masking trick that works is to spray the cream, mask off for the brown, then app[y a second light coat of cream with the masking in place. This tends to find the seepage points and seal them off against the subsequent coat of brown, whether it's sprayed or brushed. 

[The Fatadder]

11 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

One masking trick that works is to spray the cream, mask off for the brown, then app[y a second light coat of cream with the masking in place. This tends to find the seepage points and seal them off against the subsequent coat of brown, whether it's sprayed or brushed. 

I like this idea, 

 

Presumably you need to wait a while afterwards before spraying the next colour to let the extra cream dry fully?

 

i will give it a go on my next coach painting (along with the modern coaches I will be spraying next weekend)

[checkrail]

Next up will be a C16 third, using Worsley Works sides.

 

In many ways this should prove more straightforward than the D29: the bolections are already catered for in the etch; there's no guard's lookout, guard's handrails or steps to worry about; no luggage grilles either; and I'm going to paint it in the post 1934 livery with the roundel and no 'third' designation on doors.  What could possibly go wrong?!

 

Well, for a start I'm going to have to use and glaze the brass clerestory sides on this one. (Didn't bother with the D29 - they were as near as dammit.) I've also noted little slots or holes for the door hinges.  At three per door that's 48 hinges.  Phew!

 

John C. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by checkrail

[The Fatadder]

Love the pre slotted sides ready for hinges, I absolutely hate drilling Comet sides for these!

 

Looking at these builds I need to restart my eBay alerts for Hornby cleresterory coaches.  

[Coach bogie]

9 hours ago, checkrail said:

Next up will be a C16 third, using Worsley Works sides.

 

Well, for a start I'm going to have to use and glaze the brass clerestory sides on this one. (Didn't bother with the D29 - they were as near as dammit.) I've also noted little slots or holes for the door hinges.  At three per door that's 48 hinges.  Phew!

 

John C. 

One time saver. The clerestory roof is spot on from Hornby. The only detail modification required to the toplights is the section over the two centre toilets. If you carefully carve off a ventilator of the body, sand it down at the back to match the relief of the others in the roof,  this can be glued in and the toplight drilled out each side (which would have to be done anyway, even if you use the etch). Then just touch up with brown paint. I used the etch to mark the position.

 

Have fun

 

Mike Wiltshire

[checkrail]

16 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

One time saver. The clerestory roof is spot on from Hornby.

Thanks for this tip Mike, but I started this conversion from the top down and by the time you posted I'd already added etch to the clerestory side, having drilled and filed a suitable slot in the blank plastic above the former lavatory compartments.  Not sure I'll bother with the separate ventilators on the clerestory, but I'll add them to the coach side.  Yep, having fun.

 

 

Btw, nothing on C16 in the Russell vols, just a bit online via Penrhos and a Slinn drawing. Do you know the number series, or of any photos of C16s in service?

 

John.

[St Enodoc]

14 minutes ago, checkrail said:

Btw, nothing on C16 in the Russell vols, just a bit online via Penrhos and a Slinn drawing. Do you know the number series, or of any photos of C16s in service?

Strangely, diagram C16  doesn't seem to be in the lot list in Harris, which I've always regarded as something of a bible.

[checkrail]

Maybe they kept the same numbers when the central lavatories were replaced by another compartment and they were re-designated from C15 to C16? 

[Harlequin]

From Longworth: Four C16s made it into BR ownership.

 

Lot 940

W3165 previously 7604 and previously again 604

W3167 previously 7606 and previously again 606

W3170 previously 7609 and previously again 609

 

Lot 867

W3713 previously 6950

 

[St Enodoc]

13 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

From Longworth: Four C16s made it into BR ownership.

 

Lot 940

W3165 previously 7604 and previously again 604

W3167 previously 7606 and previously again 606

W3170 previously 7609 and previously again 609

 

Lot 867

W3713 previously 6950

 

That's a good clue Phil. I now think that Harris only seems to list new build lots, so the conversions from C15 to C16 aren't there.

 

Putting the Harris lot list together with what you quoted from Longworth, Lot 867 started off as (6)945 - 54, later becoming 3708-17; and Lot 940 started off as (7)601-10, later becoming 3162-71. What I don't know if whether all the C15s in these lots became C16s.

 

Hope that helps a little.

Edited May 12, 2020 by St Enodoc

[Coach bogie]

I get my information from the registers. Until the lockdown is over I cannot go and visit to check. He does have a couple of images, though I have  not seen them myself. 

 

Well done for using the Longworth book. I had not thought of that. 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited May 13, 2020 by Coach bogie

[Barry Ten]

On 10/05/2020 at 23:44, The Fatadder said:

I like this idea, 

 

Presumably you need to wait a while afterwards before spraying the next colour to let the extra cream dry fully?

 

 

 

Not too long, if you just put on a relatively light coat - certainly not hours and hours.