New Crowdfunded Class 86 or Class 87

[adb968008]

An 86 in Electric Blue, as built ticks a lot of boxes.

I don't think todate anyone has done an "as built", the ones Ive seen have always tended to be modern image retro-models (86233 etc).

I'd have room for a pair or 3 of 1960s/early 70s class 86s.

 

From a livery variety an 86 wins hands down. From a fleet size so does an 86.

An 87 falls outside the 1960s modeller, so it'd be outside my interest, though I can see why it would be a popular choice.

 

on the subject of special liveries on 86's apart from Sans Peril and Novelty in 1980, don't forget some Anglian 86's carried union jacks too for the 2002 jubilee.

86259 Les Ross would be a must for any modern image modeller to go with their WCRC coaches.

 

the 86 is the class 47 of Electrics.

 

so reasons for an 86:

1. E3100 series as built

2. A.N.Other Blue HYE

3. Blue. FYE with red buffer beams

4. BR Blue, white roof pre-tops

5. BR Blue pre-tops

6. BR Blue post tops

7. BR Blue without head codes / lights instead / named

8. BR Blue Sans Peril / Novelty as per Rainhill in 1980

9. BR Blue orange contrail stripe / named

10. BR Intercity early style with Yellow cabs

11. BR Intercity Grey/red style without Swallow or BR logo (My request would  be 86231 Starlight Express with it's Black head code box)... which means..

12. Another BR intercity liveried one to go with 11.

13. BR Intercity / Black/White late style

14. Network South East 86401

15. Parcels Red

16. RES Livery

17. Freight liner (Railreight)

18. EWS

19.  Virgin

20. Anglian

21. Network Rail

22. Europhoenix

23. Floyd rail (Hungary)

24. 86233 Alstom Heritage (but it's been so overdone).. so 86259 Les Ross instead

25. Rail freight Distribution

26. Caledonian Sleeper

27. Anglian w/Union Jacks

28. 86101 "Sir William Stanier"

29. Colas livery

30. Bulmarket (Bulgaria)

 

and finally..

 

86414 Frank Hornby might be a cheeky choice. :-)

 

Who knows at some point we may even see a WCRC livered one.

 

then we can move onto the variations..  

[fozzy280472]

I would happily take a couple of each , but have voted for the 86 . Early 80s blue .....perfect , I'm not really bothered about an operating panto, as long as it looks good and is accurate and to scale I'm happy .

This could be an absolute winner if you can get it to Bachmann 85 standard or better.

If you were to go ahead with the 86 , would you be looking at both with and without MW jumpers ... I'd love one of each (86/2 and 86/0/3).

Anyway Dave don't mess about .....push the button now !!

Potentially Excellent news.

Cheers

Paul.

[Martin_R]

brenn, on 02 Jul 2016 - 14:03, said:

Vote both.
 
I haven't bought the Heljan 86 as it is not a great model to my eye.
 
However what i really what to know is will you resign if the vote doesn't go your way and will the losing side demand a re vote if they don't get the result they want?
 
Dave be careful you may cause a split in the DEMU community and lets face it people called "Dave" don't have a great track record of (no matter how well intended) if giving the people what they want......
 
B

Hi mate,
A remote and cabinet reshuffle would be on the cards.

No idea why DEMU could split mind you, but I know of some that for some reason, bear animosity.....but let's face it, they don't have to indulge in this if they don't like me, not everyone does. Lol 
But I've yet to see them grow a pair and do it themselves.

Cheers
Dave 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I think a tongue in cheek comment here in RMweb and the equally tongue in cheek reply from DJ Dave has blown this out of all proportions and will not do credit to either DEMU or RMweb. There has always been a trend of animosity bubbling in the background on both sides - I am a member of DEMU and a reader of RMweb and love to see and read the discussions about modelling not the backbiting I have witnessed today. Keep this up and both will lose yet more credibility and members. Can we please get back to modelling NOW!

 

 

Martin.

[Clive Mortimore]

An 86 in Electric Blue, as built ticks a lot of boxes.

I don't think todate anyone has done an "as built", the ones Ive seen have always tended to be modern image retro-models (86233 etc).

I'd have room for a pair or 3 of 1960s/early 70s class 86s.

 

From a livery variety an 86 wins hands down. From a fleet size so does an 86.

An 87 falls outside the 1960s modeller, so it'd be outside my interest, though I can see why it would be a popular choice.

 

on the subject of special liveries on 86's apart from Sans Peril and Novelty in 1980, don't forget some Anglian 86's carried union jacks too for the 2002 jubilee.

86259 Les Ross would be a must for any modern image modeller to go with their WCRC coaches.

 

the 86 is the class 47 of Electrics.

 

so reasons for an 86:

1. E3100 as built

2. A.N.Other Electric Blue

 

edited

 

and finally..

 

86414 Frank Hornby might be a cheeky choice. :-)

 

Who knows at some point we may even see a WCRC livered one.

 

then we can move onto the variations..  

Hi abd

 

The AL6s were never in electric blue, they were the first locos in rail blue as reported by Brian Haresnape in July 1965 Modern Railways. The first few E3135 being one, were delivered without yellow panels making them the only standard gauge rail blue locos to see service without yellow panels.

[Matabiau]

I have a couple of Heljan 86s and despite their shortcomings do not intend to replace them or incease my fleet size. A modern standard 87 would spark an interest for me.

I can see the attraction of an 86 from an earlier generation as a new model, but it's not for me. Let's see where the more demand lies!

[Mike at C&M]

[DJM Dave]

brenn, on 02 Jul 2016 - 14:03, said:

 

Hi mate,A remote and cabinet reshuffle would be on the cards.No idea why DEMU could split mind you, but I know of some that for some reason, bear animosity.....but let's face it, they don't have to indulge in this if they don't like me, not everyone does. Lol But I've yet to see them grow a pair and do it themselves.CheersDave 

 

Hi Martin,

 

Thanks for being a sensible head and keeping my feet on the ground.

I've edited my comment accordingly.

Cheers

Dave

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I think a tongue in cheek comment here in RMweb and the equally tongue in cheek reply from DJ Dave has blown this out of all proportions and will not do credit to either DEMU or RMweb. There has always been a trend of animosity bubbling in the background on both sides - I am a member of DEMU and a reader of RMweb and love to see and read the discussions about modelling not the backbiting I have witnessed today. Keep this up and both will lose yet more credibility and members. Can we please get back to modelling NOW!

 

 

 

Martin.

IMG_0167_500.jpg

I'm seeing a private conversation starting already lol

Thanks Mike

Dave

[Suzie]

Perhaps the answer to optional motorisation of the pantograph(s) is allow a bit of room for 5g servo(s) in the body and include a 5V regulator and Plux socket on the PCB so customers can choose a suitable decoder and fit servos if they want to motorise with off-the-shelf stuff. 

[stewartingram]

Are they really ? Would be interested in your crystal ball.You'll be telling us the world is flat next. Hang on a minute,though.....

 

Don't be silly. Try living in Fenland, I do, and it IS flat.

 

Stewart

[No Decorum]

Are they really ? Would be interested in your crystal ball.You'll be telling us the world is flat next. Hang on a minute,though.....

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/details_archive.php?id=296

[Ian Hargrave]

Don't be silly. Try living in Fenland, I do, and it IS flat.

 

Stewart

But at least you get to see the sky.....and lots of it.Let's face it,there's not much in between.

[DJM Dave]

Don't be silly. Try living in Fenland, I do, and it IS flat.

 

Stewart

Me too, when I "go home'

[Ian Hargrave]

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/details_archive.php?id=296

Yes,I have that one too. But that was then ( March ? ) And this is now.

[Paragon]

Back on topic, I've voted 86 for a Freightliner branded Rf Grey model to sit on my as yet unbuilt LTS project.

A worthwhile project, much appreciated.

Paragon

Jon

[Wolf27]

Dave, can you remind us of how the crowdfunding process works. All I can remember is there are key milestones to release funds.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[wombatofludham]

While I'd be interested in an 86 as an AL6, I haven't voted as I would be unwilling to become involved again in another crowdfunding. I say this having crowdfunded the Class 71 with two models purchased from the first day it went live, however my personal view is that the project was affected by another manufacturer (Hornby) already working in secret on a Class 71 model and continuing with it as a duplication. I've come to the conclusion that crowdfunding outside of Kickstarter, can only operate effectively when it has a clear field and has a defined timeline for funding pledges. For the 86 and 87 I believe there is too great a risk that another manufacturer is working on a model or models. Hornby is a strong possibility, as they have both types in their back catalogue with rolling stock available in Mk2 and Mk3 coaches, however the greater likelihood for me is Oxford Rail, who have already announced they are producing Mk3 coaches in local hauled and HST type and have also announced carflats of the Motorail type. They have indicated that they intend to produce locos and rolling stock, so I feel they are likely to be working on locos to operate with the Mk3s rather than just introduce them for other makers machines. Both these companies only announce projects at about a year or less from production.

 

It's a personal view but for me too much of a risk.

 

Given Class 86's and 87's don't emit water vapour (well, unless they are being hosed down by the fire brigade) and never worked south of the Thames on an electric rail, I suspect the chances of Hornby making one are somewhere well south of zero.  Given their intention to scale back on their range in order to stay solvent, I think we've got Buckley's chance of getting anything AC electric shaped from Hornby.  I think their financial state will see any new investment being made in quick selling pretty steamers for the collectors to drool over, whilst the spenders of grey pounds are still alive, together with their core trainset market, for the short to medium term.  Which is fair enough.

 

​Oxford are an outside bet but I suspect they may wait until they have become more established before doing anything AC powered.

[wombatofludham]

Hi abd

 

The AL6s were never in electric blue, they were the first locos in rail blue as reported by Brian Haresnape in July 1965 Modern Railways. The first few E3135 being one, were delivered without yellow panels making them the only standard gauge rail blue locos to see service without yellow panels.

 

The AL6 in early Rail Blue with small yellow panels and white cab roof and window surrounds was one of the most stylish liveries the class carried, and for those of a more steamy persuasion, were seen running alongside LMS and BR steam locos in and around the Potteries and Manchester, even with the latest Mk2 stock.  Green diesels, Black 5s and AL6s.  What's not to like?

[No Decorum]

This is quite a tricky matter. On the one hand, there is a difficulty in producing a model to replace an existing one. For example, the Adams O2 is the only one on the market but there is already a J94. Therefore, the J94 needs to be that much better. The same applies here; we already have 86s and 87s. On the other hand, we have not got 81s to 84s but then they are unlikely to sell as well as the 86s and 87s.

 

From my own personal and undoubtedly idiosyncratic view point, if a new model comes along and I already have an older model, something annoying could very easily put me off getting the new model. It could be the finish, running quality or any one of several niggly little things.

 

I’d like both the 86 and the 87 but I shall wait to vote until I see how the 71 turns out and what the price of an 86 or 87 is likely to be. However, I’d much rather see something not modelled yet, such as the 70s (in order to round off the third-rail DC electrics) or 81s to 84s.

 

Dave, was the Fell a definite offer? Where’s the button? 

[jjb1970]

I'd go for a Class 87, I'd love a good 86 too but the 87 would be my first choice. BR blue with cross arm pantograph and also 87012 in the first executive livery. My own view would be to go for a pan with current collection but not bother with a lowering pan as it'd add cost and be a bit of a gimmick IMO.

[DJM Dave]

This is quite a tricky matter. On the one hand, there is a difficulty in producing a model to replace an existing one. For example, the Adams O2 is the only one on the market but there is already a J94. Therefore, the J94 needs to be that much better. The same applies here; we already have 86s and 87s. On the other hand, we have not got 81s to 84s but then they are unlikely to sell as well as the 86s and 87s.

 

From my own personal and undoubtedly idiosyncratic view point, if a new model comes along and I already have an older model, something annoying could very easily put me off getting the new model. It could be the finish, running quality or any one of several niggly little things.

 

I’d like both the 86 and the 87 but I shall wait to vote until I see how the 71 turns out and what the price of an 86 or 87 is likely to be. However, I’d much rather see something not modelled yet, such as the 70s (in order to round off the third-rail DC electrics) or 81s to 84s.

 

Dave, was the Fell a definite offer? Where’s the button?

 

Lol, it was my attempt at humour. Sorry, however I'd love to do GT3 if no ones done it in a few years.

[DJM Dave]

I'd go for a Class 87, I'd love a good 86 too but the 87 would be my first choice. BR blue with cross arm pantograph and also 87012 in the first executive livery. My own view would be to go for a pan with current collection but not bother with a lowering pan as it'd add cost and be a bit of a gimmick IMO.

I'd certainly not bother with current collection on the head.

I'd rather put a 'spark' led under the panto head for obvious reasons but no, no electrical pickup. Ever!

Unless the members here can put forward a great reason to not omit it. ;-)

 

Cheers

Dave

[DJM Dave]

Stop press - Hornby's new class 86 to be announced in 3 month's time will have a working motorised pantograph and a surface mounted LED to represent arcing!

Only kidding....

Or are you? Lol

[No Decorum]

Lol, it was my attempt at humour. Sorry, however I'd love to do GT3 if no ones done it in a few years.

I thought it was.  Nevertheless, it was an opportunity to say that I’d like one. A GT3 would be just as welcome and whilst you’re at it, you could knock out an 80 in both pre- and post-coat hanger shapes. Two for the price of 1¾.

[Mark Saunders]

I'd certainly not bother with current collection on the head.

I'd rather put a 'spark' led under the panto head for obvious reasons but no, no electrical pickup. Ever!

Unless the members here can put forward a great reason to not omit it. ;-)

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Dave

 

Triang managed current collection from the overhead but given the advent of DCC has really makes this irrelevant!

 

Mark

[Gerald Henriksen]

While I'd be interested in an 86 as an AL6, I haven't voted as I would be unwilling to become involved again in another crowdfunding. I say this having crowdfunded the Class 71 with two models purchased from the first day it went live, however my personal view is that the project was affected by another manufacturer (Hornby) already working in secret on a Class 71 model and continuing with it as a duplication. I've come to the conclusion that crowdfunding outside of Kickstarter, can only operate effectively when it has a clear field and has a defined timeline for funding pledges. For the 86 and 87 I believe there is too great a risk that another manufacturer is working on a model or models. Hornby is a strong possibility, as they have both types in their back catalogue with rolling stock available in Mk2 and Mk3 coaches, however the greater likelihood for me is Oxford Rail, who have already announced they are producing Mk3 coaches in local hauled and HST type and have also announced carflats of the Motorail type. They have indicated that they intend to produce locos and rolling stock, so I feel they are likely to be working on locos to operate with the Mk3s rather than just introduce them for other makers machines. Both these companies only announce projects at about a year or less from production.

 

It's a personal view but for me too much of a risk.

 

If someone wants a quality Class 86 or 87 model then they have a risk regardless of whether they participate or not:

 

• If they participate, there is the risk someone else also produces a model
• if they don't participate, there is the risk that no one produces a quality class 86/87, so they don't get the quality model they want

This obviously is also true for any other prototypes that are being made or might be made via crowdfunding, done by DJ Models or anyone else.

 

As for the condition that crowdfunding can only work with no competition, I don't think you will ever get that guarantee given there can always be someone out there rolling the dice on making a model of an obscure prototype.

 

Obviously everyone needs to make their own decision, but just be aware of / consider when making the decision that not participating also has risks.