Killian keane Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I've heard it said that Rattlesnake and no. 17 were made out of Lord Willoughbys ploughing engines, hence why their boilers were identical, also that consequently No. 17 was effectively a 'Super-Ophir', the picture on the cover of chronicles shows their resemblance quite well 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Heres Boulton's no. 10, formerly Liverpool and Manchester Rly 'Swallow' I believe our Sir Eustace has the drawings for this 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) This photo plus the drawings has also just appeared on the LNWRSoc's Facebook page, and there Killian Keane advises that '..... looks very like Boulton's no. 10, this is possibly the photo the drawing was made from, in which case it would be Park Parade Station, Ashton on the MSLR in May 1866, before dispatch to Hirwain Iron Co. Aberdare'.The photo is LNWR Soc., Ref: JSY0002.I skimmed through E.L.Ahrons 'The British Steam Loco... 1825 - 1925', but somehow it seems to have avoided Ahron's attention, or I missed it.And just when I want my copy of 'Boulton's Sidings', I can't find it.And the drawing's referred to :- Edited May 2, 2018 by Penlan 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 The thing that intrigued me about the photo of Boulton's No. 10, is the end of the wagon to the left. The end planking appears just be held in place by the corner plates, there's seemingly no end stanchion's. The buffer casing appears to have a lip to prevent the flooring slipping out, but then they only came in later (1910's) to stop the floor sliding in end tip wagons.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2018 The thing that intrigued me about the photo of Boulton's No. 10, is the end of the wagon to the left. The end planking appears just be held in place by the corner plates, there's seemingly no end stanchion's. The buffer casing appears to have a lip to prevent the flooring slipping out, but then they only came in later (1910's) to stop the floor sliding in end tip wagons.... Essery's Midland Wagons Vol. 1 has photos of a two-plank dropside for the Spalding & Bourne (Plate 32) and a Midland four-plank side-door wagon (Plate 34), both Gloucester C&W Co. products of the 1860s. Neither have external end pillars but both have some vertical "strapping" suggestive of internal knees or similar. The wagon in the photo of No. 10 seems to be devoid of any fastenings or ironwork on the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Heres Boulton's no. 10, formerly Liverpool and Manchester Rly 'Swallow' I believe our Sir Eustace has the drawings for this I think that one may be the next on my list of locomotives to build. There's going to be a bit of head-scratching involved regarding how to make the rods... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Could you 'cold forge' them from brass rod? Squash the ends in a smooth-jawed vice, file to shape, pop at one end, strike arc with dividers, pop other end, step drill both ends. I did that to make some coupler bars for a narrow model, but I admit that the centres weren't critical in that case, which they clearly are in this. Proceed as initially suggested, but drill slightly oversize, then sweat crankpin bearing thingumies into the holes, with the rods in situ and the wheels correctly quartered, the oversizeness allowing tolerance to compensate for marking and drilling error? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Could you 'cold forge' them from brass rod? Squash the ends in a smooth-jawed vice, file to shape, pop at one end, strike arc with dividers, pop other end, step drill both ends. I did that to make some coupler bars for a narrow model, but I admit that the centres weren't critical in that case, which they clearly are in this. Proceed as initially suggested, but drill slightly oversize, then sweat crankpin bearing thingumies into the holes, with the rods in situ and the wheels correctly quartered, the oversizeness allowing tolerance to compensate for marking and drilling error? Exactly the method that I used to produce the circular section rods for an FR England 'PRINCE' for OO9 - though I have to confess that I used copper wire and disguised the fact by tinning them. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Squash the ends in a smooth-jawed vice, file to shape, pop at one end, strike arc with dividers, pop other end, step drill both ends. I did that to make some coupler bars for a narrow model, but I admit that the centres weren't critical in that case, which they clearly are in this. If you make the rods first, using the first one as a jig to drill the holes in the second one, you can then use that same rod as a jig to pilot drill the axle holes in the frames. That way all the holes will be at exactly the same centres. That's the way I've made all my 2FS locos. I drill the rods as a pair and cut and file them to shape while still soldered together, then use one of them as a jig to drill the frames. Jim 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) A bit of your prowess with the pantograph engraver machine and then a half round bar soldered to the outside face? Or just a couple of ends engraved out with a half depth groove, solder together with a rod trapped in the grooves. Looking at your previous work, I have every confidence in your ability to sort out a solution, and it looking stunning when you have, like the rest of your work. Cheers Ian in Blackpool Edited July 21, 2018 by ianmaccormac 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Heres Boulton's no. 10, formerly Liverpool and Manchester Rly 'Swallow' I believe our Sir Eustace has the drawings for this I have just read the chapter concerning the six alleged former L&M locomotives and nowhere does it mention the L&M name of Boulton's No. 10. I've noticed other little snippets of info, on other locos, that you have posted and I'm wondering from where have you obtained this extra information? I have been thinking how to make the rods for No.10 and this is what I have come up with. The first thing that I do on a scratch build is to draw the frame plates and make the frame plate patterns for profile milling. The rod centres are taken from the axle centres on the patterns by drilling a pilot hole right through the pattern and into the piece of styrene that is to become the rods, thus the centres on both frame and rod match exactly. With this type of rod I plan to make a pattern with only the ends of the rods. On the nickel silver milled part, the bar piece will be fitted into the slots and filled up with solder, which will be filed back flush with the outside surface. The rod will then be cut out using a piercing saw and any excess on the ends filed back. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I have just read the chapter concerning the six alleged former L&M locomotives and nowhere does it mention the L&M name of Boulton's No. 10. I've noticed other little snippets of info, on other locos, that you have posted and I'm wondering from where have you obtained this extra information? I have been thinking how to make the rods for No.10 and this is what I have come up with. Rod-Jig.jpg The first thing that I do on a scratch build is to draw the frame plates and make the frame plate patterns for profile milling. The rod centres are taken from the axle centres on the patterns by drilling a pilot hole right through the pattern and into the piece of styrene that is to become the rods, thus the centres on both frame and rod match exactly. With this type of rod I plan to make a pattern with only the ends of the rods. On the nickel silver milled part, the bar piece will be fitted into the slots and filled up with solder, which will be filed back flush with the outside surface. The rod will then be cut out using a piercing saw and any excess on the ends filed back. I came across the photo via the LNWR society facebook group where Mike Musson said it was believed to be Swallow of the bird class (which could be a 2-4-0 or a 2-2-2), in fact he might be worth contacting for the photo the other drawing was prepared from Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) In the 19th century railway enthusiasts group on facebook today an interesting find turned up two colour pictures taken in 1967 of one of Boultons engines which escaped mr Bennets attention, "Phoenix" a queer inside cylindered 0-4-0st with a bulbous square saddle tank, the photos are copyrighted so in good faith Ill not post them here, but I am informed theres more information in this book https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781870754309/Industrial-Railways-Bolton-Bury-Manchester-1870754301/plp Edited July 26, 2018 by Killian keane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 We might as well have a photo if our man, the late I W Boulton, here standing next to the earthly remains of Python no. 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 We might as well have a photo if our man, the late I W Boulton, here standing next to the earthly remains of Python no. 1 He looks exactly as I'd expect a Victorian engineer to look. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 The one on the right is Pugsy, but what's the one on the left? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 The one on the right is Pugsy, but what's the one on the left?I understand its 'Star' one of the Ex L&MR bird class engines 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Does anyone know of any more photos of No.10 and the other former L&M engines that Boulton converted to saddle tanks? Or anything of them in their former lives? I'm doing a bit of planning for the model and I'm wondering what the smokebox door arrangement was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) They keep cropping up steadily Edited January 23, 2019 by Killian keane 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 just going back to where the works could have been https://gracesguide.co.uk/Isaac_Watt_Boultonhttps://gracesguide.co.uk/Isaac_Watt_Boulton "He left in 1856 and set up another engineering business at Portland Street, Ashton-under-Lyne," "a connection to the nearest railway line was needed. This led, in 1864, to the construction of Boulton's Siding, alongside the Oldham branch of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway" "Obituary. Inventor of patent block wheels for traction engines. One time large locomotive manufacturer of of Portland Street, Ashton." the only place on Portland street in Ashton that near a railway line is at the north end at Wellington Road. though i'm only going on the graces guide info 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 That's where I already suggested the site was on on page 3. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112757-the-locomotives-of-boultons-siding/&do=findComment&comment=2967052 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 i flicked through the thread but must have missed that post. other than that, ive got a pair of Slaters 3'3" bogie/tender wheels which if i get the crank extensions for them. i'm thinking of doing "star" which had 3'6" (measured from the Oakwood press book) i think the 3" difference isnt going to be noticable much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 I would imagine that Mr Boulton's loco had their tyres turned down as many times as possible (and maybe a bit more) before getting new ones. So using slightly underscale wheels is not really a problem. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Boulton had a handful of archaic saddle tanks by hope town foundry, in addition an unknown loco by the name of Victory, I would suggest this was one of said locos 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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