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BR "Sturgeon" bogie rail carrier floor?


Signaller69

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I think they're steel plate, as the floor's too low to have a substantial wooden top. These two photos on Martyn Read's site suggest that this is the case:-

https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/Y-Tops-codes/YBA-Sturgeon-rail-carrier/

Thanks for your reply, for some reason the link pics don't come up even though the site and captions do! (On my phone so could be why?) I have also found a couple of pics on Google search for "Sturgeon wagon" images which support what you say, though in all cases they are the flat (no sides) air braked conversions and fairly modern (post 2000) photos. As the Cambrian Kit 00 version has no planked floor detail it would seem to indicate steel flooring.

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I think these are sturgeons? Taken in 1981, the deck of the wagons was not always clean!

 

post-7081-0-42679400-1468430099_thumb.jpg

Two sturgeons behind 37204 at the front on 8X06 a train of recovered track sections

from Bristol East Depot arriving at Taunton Fairwater in 1981,  24/8/81  

 

cheers

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I think these are sturgeons? Taken in 1981, the deck of the wagons was not always clean!

 

Taunton Fairwater 37204 a.jpg

Two sturgeons behind 37204 at the front on 8X06 a train of recovered track sections

from Bristol East Depot arriving at Taunton Fairwater in 1981, 24/8/81

 

cheers

Yes they are indeed, useful photo that! Front one looks like one of the later lots, second appears to be an earlier one with the sides removed? Both have cut down ends too. Love the "lightly loaded" look which is what I want to replicate exactly! Rusty floors here we go!

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Yes they are indeed, useful photo that! Front one looks like one of the later lots, second appears to be an earlier one with the sides removed? Both have cut down ends too. Love the "lightly loaded" look which is what I want to replicate exactly! Rusty floors here we go!

 

the ends of sturgeon were always removable, its dolphins that were cut down. there were several batches of sturgeon, the leading one seems to have had its door bangers trimmed off, there was a batch built at Ashford that had a load of extra's

 

Jon

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Yes they are indeed, useful photo that! Front one looks like one of the later lots, second appears to be an earlier one with the sides removed? Both have cut down ends too. Love the "lightly loaded" look which is what I want to replicate exactly! Rusty floors here we go!

Martyn,

 

hopefully the attached photos might be of some use: these are a couple of sturgeons on the Mid Hants that I photographed a while back, funnily enough for the same reason - I wanted to add some relief to the interior of a Cambrian Sturgeon.  They certainly do appear to be metal, though the bush is optional!  

 

post-10582-0-90495200-1468533432.jpgpost-10582-0-73330400-1468533454.jpgpost-10582-0-51774700-1468533474.jpg

 

I also poked around another example in preservation at Ruddington, which certainly had metal plates covering the floor - photos aren't great but I was primarily photographing the bogie and end details. 

 

post-10582-0-92758200-1468533759.jpg

 

post-10582-0-14151100-1468533794.jpg

 

post-10582-0-34849700-1468533862.jpg

 

Hope that is of some help.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

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Paul, I'm pretty sure the Mid-hants pair are actually dolphins, not sturgeon, I caught them out in the open at ropley just before christmas, but didn't have the camera, just my phone, and gavent worked out how to get the snaps off it yet.

 

I do a basic detailing kit for the ex-A1 DOlphin kit, because it was blown up from a 2mm kit, it lacks quite a lot of detail,

 

Jon

live from ICE 726 on the neubaustrecke north of Wurzburg - all these tunnels play havoc with the on train wifi

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Jon,

 

you may well be right about the ones at the MH: I took the snaps on my 'phone out the window of a moving train, so I could not offer further clarification.  As an aside, I did wonder whether the metal decking would have been 'as-built' or perhaps a later in-service mod? In which case, would it have perhaps have been common to both types?

 

Looking at the welding work on the ends of the one at Ruddington, I certainly will not be spending much more time trying to clean up the seams on the Cambrian version I am currently fiddling about with!  At least I made a neater centre deck seam than the one in picture 3! 

 

Kind Regards,

 

Paul

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Where there not two sizes of Sturgeon, one of which was coded Sturgeon A? One type was slightly wide for gauge and only used to carry I think timber from a port to the timber treatment works.

Long while ago and I may have misremembered.

 

In later years the Sturgeons with sides were referred to as Tench, to distinguish them from the side less ones. 

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Where there not two sizes of Sturgeon, one of which was coded Sturgeon A? One type was slightly wide for gauge and only used to carry I think timber from a port to the timber treatment works.

Long while ago and I may have misremembered.

 

In later years the Sturgeons with sides were referred to as Tench, to distinguish them from the side less ones. 

Was the Sturgeon A the one with the chunky fixed stanchions that used to bring imported timber from Newport Docks to Ditton sleeper works?

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the ends of sturgeon were always removable, its dolphins that were cut down. there were several batches of sturgeon, the leading one seems to have had its door bangers trimmed off, there was a batch built at Ashford that had a load of extra's

 

Jon

Thanks Jon, from looking at photos I thought the prominent end uprights on Sturgeons were fixed and only the end panels (top 2 sections) that were removable, with the bottom part able to fold down? I think the Dolphins had different bogies (those on the Sturgeon being unique to the Sturgeon and variants thereof.) Also the late Sturgeons built without sides didn't have the door springs as they weren't needed, or the underfloor lockers for the removable end sections AFAIK.

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Martyn,

 

hopefully the attached photos might be of some use: these are a couple of sturgeons on the Mid Hants that I photographed a while back, funnily enough for the same reason - I wanted to add some relief to the interior of a Cambrian Sturgeon. They certainly do appear to be metal, though the bush is optional!

 

20150516_152910 (800x600).jpg 20150516_152913 (800x600).jpg 20150516_152921 (800x600).jpg

 

I also poked around another example in preservation at Ruddington, which certainly had metal plates covering the floor - photos aren't great but I was primarily photographing the bogie and end details.

 

20150711_134733 (800x600).jpg

 

20150711_134707 (800x600).jpg

 

20150711_134349 (800x600).jpg

 

Hope that is of some help.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Excellent photos Paul, interested to see the removable(?) covers at either end and 2 in the middle, very handy that! Although for my part I'm modelling them c.1970 so they weren't THAT old to warrant the levels of decrepitude of those you photographed, more is the pity!

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Was the Sturgeon A the one with the chunky fixed stanchions that used to bring imported timber from Newport Docks to Ditton sleeper works?

They may have been Sturgeon A, though I think the "A" covers several variants. Some of Paul Bartlett's photos show them in South Wales though (see link in first post above).

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Martyn,

 

glad the photos were useful.  Thought the attached might be helpful: a couple of further end-on shots of the Ruddington example - useful for showing rodding for the handwheel at the end.  Also note that the buffer on the right-hand side appears to have had the ends cropped.  

post-10582-0-21986000-1468621545.jpg

post-10582-0-39086300-1468621571.jpg

 

Please excuse the presence of one 'Griffgriff' of this parish, who swears blind he was not rivet-counting!

 

Good luck with your project - hope you work quicker than I do!

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

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Martyn,

 

glad the photos were useful. Thought the attached might be helpful: a couple of further end-on shots of the Ruddington example - useful for showing rodding for the handwheel at the end. Also note that the buffer on the right-hand side appears to have had the ends cropped.

20150711_134248 (800x600).jpg

20150711_134419 (800x600).jpg

 

Please excuse the presence of one 'Griffgriff' of this parish, who swears blind he was not rivet-counting!

 

Good luck with your project - hope you work quicker than I do!

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

Thanks Paul, I think my 2 wagons may have a couple of rivets missing by now, sharp blades and all that! I have not added the handbrake rod as I'm using Kadees in the bogie mounted NEM pockets; nor air pipes or the associated V hangers etc as mine pre date the air braked / air piped conversions. (I seem to recall it was the air braked versions which became "Tench" to avoid confusion between them and the unfitted Sturgeons, though I could be wrong.)

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I have two of the Cambrian Sturgeon A kits, one still unbuilt. They are a nice kit to build apart from the tedious job of adding 28 handrails, 28 door bumpers and 28 door stops (or whatever they are called!). If you leave the doors off, it becomes a very easy build indeed. The one I have done runs extremely freely and runs away on even the slightest gradient.

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I have two of the Cambrian Sturgeon A kits, one still unbuilt. They are a nice kit to build apart from the tedious job of adding 28 handrails, 28 door bumpers and 28 door stops (or whatever they are called!). If you leave the doors off, it becomes a very easy build indeed. The one I have done runs extremely freely and runs away on even the slightest gradient.

Absolutely agreed on the doors, very time consuming! Yes the 1 piece bogies are superb, far better than any other plastic kit I have done, and the NEM coupler pockets are a great feature too. I added some liquid lead underneath for stability, and will add a few lengths of rail, chain etc once I have painted & weathered the interior.

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Couple of pics just before painting black!attachicon.gifIMG_20160708_130136.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160708_130120.jpg

Very tidy - they look very nice indeed.  I am currently (slowly) working through the tedious business of adding all the furniture to the sides. It is nice to see that it will all be worth it - eventually!   Any chance of some further snaps when you get round to painting them?

 

I too like the bogies in this kit: mine is extremely free-running.  I found space for some off-cuts of roofing lead in the box structures that locate the bogies. 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Paul

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Very tidy - they look very nice indeed. I am currently (slowly) working through the tedious business of adding all the furniture to the sides. It is nice to see that it will all be worth it - eventually! Any chance of some further snaps when you get round to painting them?

 

I too like the bogies in this kit: mine is extremely free-running. I found space for some off-cuts of roofing lead in the box structures that locate the bogies.

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

More photos coming up! :-)

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Ok, so I undercoated them in grey, then Matt Black using car aerosols, a little Humbrol gloss varnish where transfers were to be applied then left to fully dry. Next day transfers were applied (mainly Cambridge Custom Transfers sheet for Scottish Region Sturgeons, yellow lettering: these are superb transfers), then a quick coat of aerosol Humbrol Acrylic Matt varnish and left overnight to dry again. This morning I found the varnish had bloomed a little which was annoying, although less so than if I had been doing a loco as the result actually looks weathered, without even starting on actual weathering! Result so far then:

post-28743-0-63618300-1468676268.jpgpost-28743-0-19226900-1468676290.jpgpost-28743-0-11264000-1468676312.jpg

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The paintwork on these things tended to be neglected, so the varnish blooming may be quite a good thing!

I tried for a heavily weathered and patchy look on the one I have completed so far. I'm not sure how realistic this is, but I am quite happy with the result. I added a load of rails on some battens, and these also provide more than sufficient weight as well.

Sturgeon%20A%20Wagon%20Near%20Newton%20B

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