Signaller69's projects

[Signaller69]

6 hours ago, ISW said:

Martyn,

 

Thanks. You clearly have a very good eye (or even 2 of them!). Me thinks it will be a while before I reach such standards.

 

You are very kind Ian; my philosophy is about making something to satisfy yourself really, if you can pick up a cheap wagon kit from a second hand stall and put it together, or detail a RTR item, then its not too big a step to go on and modify it to something else which can't be bought in kit or rtr form, especially if you accept the odd compromise along the way. If it goes wrong hopefully we haven't lost more than a few pounds, but even then it is usually possible to salvage something. My projects are not to P4 standards by any means, but I enjoy doing them and equally importantly (to me) they give something unusual, or increase variety, without costing very much.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

The Shocvan is more or less finished now, still fairly clean though at the moment. The body is still loose on the chassis, the slight gap will be lost once it is secured.

[ISW]

Martyn,

 

That little bit of silver paint on the inside of your home-made buffers makes a real difference and adds to the realism. Nice one.

 

[Fat Controller]

Very nice.

[Signaller69]

Latest project is an experiment to re-sleeper a couple of spare Peco code 75 points with Copperclad sleepers to match the newer Peco Bullhead track. These are for a new small industrial layout I am building, thread can be found here (shameless plug):  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/143582-dunnington-dvr/

 

A description of the work involved is on that thread so I won't repeat it here other than a couple of photos.

Some tidying and testing to carry out yet.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Signaller69
Add photos.

[Signaller69]

I have a mix of Lilliput/Bachmann and Lima 46t GLW "Whiskey" Grain Hopper wagons for use on Crinan and, shortly, Dunnington. The Lilliput model dates from the 1970s (revamped by Bachmann in the 1990s with better wheels and tension lock couplings) and the Lima version appeared in the 1990s (one of their better models with some nice underframe detail for the time). They represent different batches with different suspension and body rib layouts. As always Paul Bartlett's site is full of Prototype info: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtgraincovhop

 

My biggest issue with using both in a rake is the ride height of the Lima version, which is about 1.5 - 2mm taller than the Lilliput/Bachmann when fitted with scale wheels, as seen here:

 

The problem being the depth of the Lima suspension, as with their CCT. I purchased a Cambrian kit (kit C40 - 1 pair of Compensation Units with choice of spring types including the Pedestal version) to see if this could be used. Having assembled the kit parts it became clear a fair amount of chopping Lima plastic would be required but nothing ventured, nothing gained.....

The units consist of a fold up set of "W" irons to which your choice of included suspension is added; standard brass bearings and Hornby wheels were fitted....

 

The Lima underframe being perused.......

 

and drastic surgery underway; the new units are designed to sit inside the chassis channel which is impossible on this chassis, as the width precludes it, so I removed plastic slowly until the new units dropped into the correct position .......

 

and success! I did not bother making the units compensated and after checking everything sat squarely, simply glued the new units in place with Plastic Weld which seems to take well to the Lima chassis. A little Green Stuff filler has been used to blend the new parts in, and some small chassis fillets require adding above the suspension to replace those lost during cutting and filing.

 

New brake levers also need adding along with brake shoes next.

[26power]

Whisky, please!

[Signaller69]

10 hours ago, 26power said:

Whisky, please!

Quite right, very naughty of me! 

[Signaller69]

Pretty much getting there ready for painting now, cast metal brake levers from the bits box were used, bent to shape as required. Brake shoes are from the Suspension kit. The small hopper operating wheels have also been moved outwards on brass wire to a more correct position. There should be some daylight at the top of the suspension, which is present on the Pedestal moulding but is lost due to the "W" irons moulding. I may drill a couple of holes to try to fool the eye but it's something to think about when I do the others.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Martyn,

 

May I ask what shade of blue do you use for these wagons, I have noted that NSE light blue is quite close as it goes, would this be correct ?

 

The reason for asking is that I have some of the Hornby ones that will get some treatment sooner or later.

 

Gibbo.

[Signaller69]

48 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

May I ask what shade of blue do you use for these wagons, I have noted that NSE light blue is quite close as it goes, would this be correct ?

 

The reason for asking is that I have some of the Hornby ones that will get some treatment sooner or later.

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo, 

I used a Humbrol blue (Will have to check tomorrow, but think it was Prussian Blue), mixed with a little black iirc, to try to match the Lilliput or Lima colours as the wagons have not had full repaints. I've not checked against "railway" colours but would have thought the early NSE Light Blue too light, though the later darker shade might be close, or possibly Provincial dark blue even?

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

[Scottish Modeller]

16 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

Hi Gibbo, 

I used a Humbrol blue (Will have to check tomorrow, but think it was Prussian Blue), mixed with a little black iirc, to try to match the Lilliput or Lima colours as the wagons have not had full repaints. I've not checked against "railway" colours but would have thought the early NSE Light Blue too light, though the later darker shade might be close, or possibly Provincial dark blue even?

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

Hi all,

 

When I did mine I used Precision Paints P102 BR Steam Loco light Blue.

 

At first it looked to bright, but after weathering them it looked to be a good match.

 

Shame that I sold them - my change in modelling era/direction means I need to do some more!

 

Thanks

Phil H

[Signaller69]

49 minutes ago, Scottish Modeller said:

Hi all,

 

When I did mine I used Precision Paints P102 BR Steam Loco light Blue.

 

At first it looked to bright, but after weathering them it looked to be a good match.

 

Shame that I sold them - my change in modelling era/direction means I need to do some more!

 

Thanks

Phil H

Thanks Phil,

Think I might take one to compare against a Railmatch paint stand at a show, just out of curiosity. Weathering wise, as you say you can really go to town on these judging by photos, especially in their later years.

 

Thanks for the info, it is another colour to investigate!

 

Cheers,

Martyn. 

[Fat Controller]

Nice work.

It may seem a silly question, but are the Bachmann and Lima wagons to the same scale? I thought the former used the Trix/Liliput moulds, which were to a funny scale (1:80/ 3.8mm/ft?)  This might account for some of the difference in height.

 

[Signaller69]

5 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Nice work.

It may seem a silly question, but are the Bachmann and Lima wagons to the same scale? I thought the former used the Trix/Liliput moulds, which were to a funny scale (1:80/ 3.8mm/ft?)  This might account for some of the difference in height.

 

Thanks. The Liliput/ Bachmann ones are about 1mm or so shorter than the Lima, the length difference really isn't noticeable though and with scale wheels fitted the buffer height of the former is pretty much right, which can't be said for the Lima which is way too high, like their CCT. If I was only using the Lima version I wouldn't deem it worth the trouble of altering the underframe to be honest but it's nice to be able to mix and match. 

 

There is also the Triang/Hornby version which I've not compared to the others, it would be an interesting exercise to compare all 3 to a scale plan I have to say.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

[Scottish Modeller]

28 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

Thanks. The Liliput/ Bachmann ones are about 1mm or so shorter than the Lima, the length difference really isn't noticeable though and with scale wheels fitted the buffer height of the former is pretty much right, which can't be said for the Lima which is way too high, like their CCT. If I was only using the Lima version I wouldn't deem it worth the trouble of altering the underframe to be honest but it's nice to be able to mix and match. 

 

There is also the Triang/Hornby version which I've not compared to the others, it would be an interesting exercise to compare all 3 to a scale plan I have to say.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

Hi all,

 

The first of the Bachmann wagons were based on the Lilliput ones and scaled at 1:80.

 

I'm sure that Bachmann then remastered the wagons and they are now 1:76 scale.

 

Forget the old Triang/Hornby model, it looks very course compared to the newer tooled wagons and it's a pain to work with due to the age of the plastic which has hardened over the years.

 

I know as I just found some in a box whilst checking if I had any of my older modified and repainted ones left. No such luck!

 

I did however find I had purchased some Lima and Bachman ones to be worked on! Not like me - planning that far in the future!

 

Thanks

Phil H

[Gibbo675]

37 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

Thanks. The Liliput/ Bachmann ones are about 1mm or so shorter than the Lima, the length difference really isn't noticeable though and with scale wheels fitted the buffer height of the former is pretty much right, which can't be said for the Lima which is way too high, like their CCT. If I was only using the Lima version I wouldn't deem it worth the trouble of altering the underframe to be honest but it's nice to be able to mix and match. 

 

There is also the Triang/Hornby version which I've not compared to the others, it would be an interesting exercise to compare all 3 to a scale plan I have to say.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

 

Here are a list of leading dimensions for the Hornby version:

• Centre height of buffers - 14mm.
• Top of sole bar - 16mm.
• Length over corner posts - 104.5mm
• Width over corner posts - 31.7mm
• Top of sole bar to walk way - 34.75mm
• Top of sole bar to cantrail - 27.2mm

Hope that helps with your ponderings,

 

Gibbo.

[Enterprisingwestern]

10 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

Here are a list of leading dimensions for the Hornby version:

• Centre height of buffers - 14mm.
• Top of sole bar - 16mm.
• Length over corner posts - 104.5mm
• Width over corner posts - 31.7mm
• Top of sole bar to walk way - 34.75mm
• Top of sole bar to cantrail - 27.2mm

Hope that helps with your ponderings,

 

Gibbo.

 

There were 2 Hornby wagons, one, like Bachmann, based on the Trix model. which in the early days they manufactured for Hornby, and latterly a re tooled correct dimension version developed and manufactured in house.

 

Mike.

[Gibbo675]

14 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

There were 2 Hornby wagons, one, like Bachmann, based on the Trix model. which in the early days they manufactured for Hornby, and latterly a re tooled correct dimension version developed and manufactured in house.

 

Mike.

Hi Mike,

 

The one I have measured is the later one for all of the ones that I have are the same as ones that have come from China despite the early ones being from the late 70's early 80's looking at the wheel sets.

 

I hope Martyn doesn't get as confused as I might end up !

 

Cheers for that,

 

Gibbo.

[Signaller69]

Thanks all for the information.

 

I think I have enough grain wagons to be going on detailing for some time to come so I doubt I will throw any Hornby ones into the mix!

 

I have a Bachmann one which is essentially identical to the Liliput version apart from the wheels and couplings used, plus a more modern finish to better standard. I've not seen anywhere any info that it has been revamped in recent years though; it would be nice if a version to "modern standards" of accuracy and detail was produced but then I'm not sure I'd want to pay a "modern price" for a rake of them??! 

 

In fact I'm thinking of re-using some of the salvaged Lima suspension parts to modify a couple of the Liliput wagons to the more modern suspension one day, could be a while off though!

 

The Liliput wagons I have removed the advert boards from will eventually have the superfluous horizontal body ribbing removed and the underframe details reworked. There is always something to do!

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Signaller69
Add to text

[Signaller69]

1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

Here are a list of leading dimensions for the Hornby version:

• Centre height of buffers - 14mm.
• Top of sole bar - 16mm.
• Length over corner posts - 104.5mm
• Width over corner posts - 31.7mm
• Top of sole bar to walk way - 34.75mm
• Top of sole bar to cantrail - 27.2mm

Hope that helps with your ponderings,

 

Gibbo.

Thanks Gibbo I will get my measuring stick out to see how they compare - does it use the same chassis as the  Hornby TTA tank wagon?

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

[Gibbo675]

41 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

Thanks Gibbo I will get my measuring stick out to see how they compare - does it use the same chassis as the  Hornby TTA tank wagon?

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

 

The very same.

 

Gibbo.

[BernardTPM]

It was the wagon that originated that chassis which is why the TTAs have some odd handles and things under them. The Bowaters slurry tank came next (1969) and the grain hopper without a roof as an open hopper (also 1969), then a plate wagon (1972). The TTA tank which was relatively late (1973 in the Silver Seal range) despite being an obvious one to put on that chassis.

Edited April 16, 2019 by BernardTPM

[Signaller69]

7 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

The very same.

 

Gibbo.

Thanks Gibbo, 

I will attempt a dimensions chart including your Hornby info when I get a chance - by the way the Humbrol Matt Blue paint I used as a base is No. 25.

 

Martyn.

[jessy1692]

27 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

It was the wagon that originated that chassis which is why the TTAs have some odd handles and things under them. The Bowaters slurry tank came next (1969) and the grain hopper without a roof as an open hopper (also 1969), then a plate wagon (1972). The TTA tank which was relatively late (1973 in the Silver Seal range) despite being an obvious one to put on that chassis.

Ahh now that explains it, currently messing around with some Hornby tta's and wondered what the extra chassis bits are from, always assumed the tta was the 1st one with that chassis.

Cheers

James