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10 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

Here are two photos of my DC Kits Derby 108:

 

DSCF0849.JPG.36b52c26daa4a0c74a68c25b6acabb36.JPG

Above corridor to head code box 230 mm

 

DSCF0850.JPG.4b264d9e60e08a1ca89c12320820d33a.JPG

Total length of gutter 226.5 mm

 

These figures are very close to what Clive has quoted, interestingly the DC kits 108 has the flatter ends than the Hornby 110.

 

Gibbo.

Thanks Gibbo, very useful info. With your and Clive's data it should be much easier to work out exactly where to cut the various bits, cheers for your help.

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7 hours ago, MJI said:

can I suggest if you are producing weird combinations is to consider resin casting the bits, get ONE really good, then cast from it

Hi Martin, I have used resin several times in the past to make roof hatches, bogies and other wagon parts, mainly in 1/29 scale using single part moulds and I agree for repetitive parts it is great. I need to buy another pack of mould making compounds as well as resin now. I've not tried 2 part moulds for complex shapes which need to be fairly thin, such as cab ends, maybe one day. I will consider it for doing the headcode boxes/roof domes though if it proves difficult.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

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16 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

Back to DMU's! Comparison of the Hornby 110 and Lima 117 cab ends shows there SHOULD be no major  problems in grafting the 117 ends to the 110 bodies to produce a Class 107. The width and depth are almost exactly the same. The 110 headcode box looks closer to the right size for a 107 than the 117 one, but the raked windscreen of the 117/107 could be the fly in the ointment if it means the roof/headcode box will stick out proud of the cab front, so some thought needs to be given to this before wielding the razor saw.

20191201_185859.jpg.f2440b754fbe222e72812fccce7ea714.jpg20191201_190525.jpg.55e77ba8a53433203e583579b21ad50b.jpg20191201_190624.jpg.39e880bbc0b588287ff38b2c7573703e.jpg

 

Elsewhere the 117 corridor connections have been grafted onto the 105 to replace the missing ones.

20191201_185226.jpg.b43fc404e524577502110c53100459b7.jpg

The missing buffers can be noted, which will be replaced in due course. I have the missing DMBS end glazing which is taped to the box insert. I have decided this unit will remain as a power twin as the Glasgow allocation appears to have been thus in the late 60s.

 

On the subject of 105's I am trying to find which ones ran in green with full yellow ends, or retained green/sywp until c.1970, particularly on the ScR, if anyone has such info. (DMC M50805 being one car I am aware of of the former).

 

Cheers all.

 

Back when the Hornby 110 and Lima 117 first came on to the market, I seem to remember nearly every other layout at Model Rail Scotland had a 107 built from that combination, think it is quite an easy build.  I think the prototype 107's headcode box was less "domed" and the window was bigger than the Lima model.

 

Jim

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3 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said:

 

Back when the Hornby 110 and Lima 117 first came on to the market, I seem to remember nearly every other layout at Model Rail Scotland had a 107 built from that combination, think it is quite an easy build.  I think the prototype 107's headcode box was less "domed" and the window was bigger than the Lima model.

 

Jim

Hi Jim, it wouldn't surprise me if it had been a popular conversion in Scotland, although it would take a good deal of work to make a really accurate model I think, it all depends how far one is prepared to go. Looking at the prototype the cab window top and bottom are the same levels as the main bodyside windows, which looks to match the Lima ends pretty much so I will probably leave them alone. The Lima headcode boxes are too small though and should be flat on top at the front edge, so these will have some work done to correct them. 

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

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3 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said:

 

Back when the Hornby 110 and Lima 117 first came on to the market, I seem to remember nearly every other layout at Model Rail Scotland had a 107 built from that combination, think it is quite an easy build.  I think the prototype 107's headcode box was less "domed" and the window was bigger than the Lima model.

 

Jim

Hi Jim,

 

I plead guilty as described.

 

I did 3 conversions for one particular layout through Harburn Hobbies and several more as a result of them!

 

Thanks

Phil H

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48 minutes ago, Scottish Modeller said:

Hi Jim,

 

I plead guilty as described.

 

I did 3 conversions for one particular layout through Harburn Hobbies and several more as a result of them!

 

Thanks

Phil H

 

Was there not also a lot more white metal cab ends/roof dome conversion kits available at the time too? I'd have thought they'd have been a bit more economical than chopping up Lima 117s too often unless the rest of the 117 was useful for converting with etched sides and new ends to other 64ft DMUs.

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7 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Was there not also a lot more white metal cab ends/roof dome conversion kits available at the time too? I'd have thought they'd have been a bit more economical than chopping up Lima 117s too often unless the rest of the 117 was useful for converting with etched sides and new ends to other 64ft DMUs.

MTK cabs perhaps? My Lima 117 chassis went into my Class 126 build so the bodies were lying around spare.

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48 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Was there not also a lot more white metal cab ends/roof dome conversion kits available at the time too? I'd have thought they'd have been a bit more economical than chopping up Lima 117s too often unless the rest of the 117 was useful for converting with etched sides and new ends to other 64ft DMUs.

Chris Leigh (Dibber 25) used to do at least one type.

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53 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Was there not also a lot more white metal cab ends/roof dome conversion kits available at the time too? I'd have thought they'd have been a bit more economical than chopping up Lima 117s too often unless the rest of the 117 was useful for converting with etched sides and new ends to other 64ft DMUs.

Hi Gordon,

 

You are correct - there were a lot of conversions that cast cabs made possible.

 

I mainly  used the left over bits of Lima 117's to make 'proper 117's'

 

At least 3 makers of cast ends were around, then you had the etch guys to add to the confusion.

 

Thanks

Phil H

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The razor saw earned its keep today and the Lima cabs are now affixed to the Hornby bodies. Sanding to follow tomorrow. The cabs are the same width and profile as the bodies as luck would have it, so little filler was needed on the cab side to body joins. The guttering on the cab is a fraction higher than on the body sides (a little subterfuge is called for here) but the cab windows are level with those on the sides, and the lower body and cab edges match too. Cuts were worked out to give a length over the roof of 227mm, which as chance would have it means that the body is just long enough to fit perfectly onto the Hornby chassis.

20191202_193729.jpg.24ff7a675ba61c442f9cb3c68b08b25d.jpg20191202_193807.jpg.f7cfe9e78d7e27cb4fbab79eed2a68fc.jpg20191202_200044.jpg.c6b3006691083900c6db1b76cd4f1a66.jpg

The bufferbeams will be reworked as they look a little odd with the flatter cab fitted. Headcode boxes to be fattened up and tapered from the roof curve to a flat top along the front edge. Plus numerous other jobs too of course.

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26 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

The razor saw earned its keep today and the Lima cabs are now affixed to the Hornby bodies. Sanding to follow tomorrow. The cabs are the same width and profile as the bodies as luck would have it, so little filler was needed on the cab side to body joins. The guttering on the cab is a fraction higher than on the body sides (a little subterfuge is called for here) but the cab windows are level with those on the sides, and the lower body and cab edges match too. Cuts were worked out to give a length over the roof of 227mm, which as chance would have it means that the body is just long enough to fit perfectly onto the Hornby chassis.

20191202_193729.jpg.24ff7a675ba61c442f9cb3c68b08b25d.jpg20191202_193807.jpg.f7cfe9e78d7e27cb4fbab79eed2a68fc.jpg20191202_200044.jpg.c6b3006691083900c6db1b76cd4f1a66.jpg

The bufferbeams will be reworked as they look a little odd with the flatter cab fitted. Headcode boxes to be fattened up and tapered from the roof curve to a flat top along the front edge. Plus numerous other jobs too of course.

Hi Martyn,

 

With regard the rain strip on the cab front I measured the distance from the edge of the cab window aperture to the underside of the rain strip of my DC Kits 108 and found it to be 1.6 mm. Looking at the photographs of the Lima cab the distance seems greater and so the rain strip could possibly be filled off and replaced lower down. This may help in making the route indicator box appear larger also as might filling down the window frames for the Lima representation seem a little overly pronounced. looking again at the DC Kits model I need a magnifying glass to see the frames, they may well disappear once painted. For reference the windows themselves are 14 mm X 8 mm with 2 mm stanchions between them and the head code box is 15.5 mm wide and is flush with the profile of the roof.

 

79879647_DSCF08511.JPG.2f998d0ee31099a7411459993033da7e.JPG

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/14324

 

I am pleased to say that your DMU thread has finally got me around to getting the toys out and doing some modelling for the first time since August ! Three Cravens 105 power trailers and a Metropolitan Cammell 101 power trailer on the bench having the bodies attached to the chassis and the Gloucester 100 DMBS having its underframe details planned out for fitting. 

 

Gibbo.

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10 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

With regard the rain strip on the cab front I measured the distance from the edge of the cab window aperture to the underside of the rain strip of my DC Kits 108 and found it to be 1.6 mm. Looking at the photographs of the Lima cab the distance seems greater and so the rain strip could possibly be filled off and replaced lower down. This may help in making the route indicator box appear larger also as might filling down the window frames for the Lima representation seem a little overly pronounced. looking again at the DC Kits model I need a magnifying glass to see the frames, they may well disappear once painted. For reference the windows themselves are 14 mm X 8 mm with 2 mm stanchions between them and the head code box is 15.5 mm wide and is flush with the profile of the roof.

 

79879647_DSCF08511.JPG.2f998d0ee31099a7411459993033da7e.JPG

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/14324

 

I am pleased to say that your DMU thread has finally got me around to getting the toys out and doing some modelling for the first time since August ! Three Cravens 105 power trailers and a Metropolitan Cammell 101 power trailer on the bench having the bodies attached to the chassis and the Gloucester 100 DMBS having its underframe details planned out for fitting. 

 

Gibbo.

Thanks for the info Gibbo, yes I think I will have to lower the cab rainstrip in the fashion you suggest and perhaps sand the frames down a tad. 

 

I'm glad my fumblings have provided some inspiration, I think I may need some to get the 107 to the finish line, of which more shortly!

 

Martyn. 

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Having looked at a lot of class 107 images I'm beginning to think I may have not so much bitten off more than I can chew, but certainly substantially more than I WANTED to chew! I can live with the inner ends being the wrong profile, I could probably live with the chassis having a wrong (Rolls Royce engines) arrangement, although this will probably be addressed.

 

However, I now appreciate that the window arrangement has, to misquote the great Eric Morecambe, "the correct arrangement of windows, but not necessarily with the correct spacings" and I feel that if I don't try to at least improve the look, it will always grate. The most obvious offenders are the small window each side of the central passenger saloon (on all three cars of course) and the brake compartment window spacings along with the windows either side of the corridor connection. Now, I accept that whatever I do, it just isn't feasible to make a 100% correct model of a 107 from a Hornby 110, so I am going with the compromise of, hopefully, making it "look less wrong". Comparing this:

20191203_080449.jpg.48cec1d1bbd9bafc18dae64db2307851.jpg

 

With this:

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/1192

 

Shows the differences rather well.

 

All I need to do now is figure out how to rectify the situation with the fewest number of bodyside cuts.....:aggressive_mini:

On the plus side, it will be good practice for when I make a Class 100 from my other 110 (yes, changed my mind again from the 103 that was planned)!

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After more hacking I'm happier with the window layout now. Before:

20191203_080449.jpg.c3ed4d53ff75ec520034683ddab1ce5e.jpg

 

After:

20191203_223826.jpg.358494713785d6650ca1653426600ebe.jpg

 

The razor saw was used for vertical cuts (5 per side), followed by cutting along under the rain strips with a Stanley knife, to join the saw cuts so that the sections of body side could be snapped out and rearranged. 

Whilst still not perfect I am happier with the window layout.

 

Apart from one small detail. 

 

I've now realised the Guards door/window is wrongly handed; if only I'd noticed during the cutting stage when it could have been dealt with more simply......I evidently slipped up with my mantra of "study photos and plans 3 times, measure twice, cut once"......

Hey ho, these things are sent to try us; back to the chopping block! On the positive side, at least I'll have done the most difficult vehicle first as the others SHOULD only need 3 cuts per side to alter the centre passenger Saloon windows to match this one....

 

 

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8 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

After more hacking I'm happier with the window layout now. Before:

20191203_080449.jpg.c3ed4d53ff75ec520034683ddab1ce5e.jpg

 

After:

20191203_223826.jpg.358494713785d6650ca1653426600ebe.jpg

 

The razor saw was used for vertical cuts (5 per side), followed by cutting along under the rain strips with a Stanley knife, to join the saw cuts so that the sections of body side could be snapped out and rearranged. 

Whilst still not perfect I am happier with the window layout.

 

Apart from one small detail. 

 

I've now realised the Guards door/window is wrongly handed; if only I'd noticed during the cutting stage when it could have been dealt with more simply......I evidently slipped up with my mantra of "study photos and plans 3 times, measure twice, cut once"......

Hey ho, these things are sent to try us; back to the chopping block! On the positive side, at least I'll have done the most difficult vehicle first as the others SHOULD only need 3 cuts per side to alter the centre passenger Saloon windows to match this one....

 

 

Hi Martyn,

 

Think positive, it could of ended up looking like a sandite unit !!!

 

Gibbo.

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9 hours ago, leopardml2341 said:

Go on, Go on, Go on, Go on.....

We have confidence in you :)

 

18 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

Think positive, it could of ended up looking like a sandite unit !!!

 

Gibbo.

Thanks for the support chaps, it really does help when things go slightly pear shaped!

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24 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

 

Thanks for the support chaps, it really does help when things go slightly pear shaped!

Hi Martyn,

 

Thinking about the guards door debacle, would it not be easier to fill the window and then mark and cut a new one into the other leaf rather than doing more cut and shut. After that the rearrangement of the door handles isn't too much trouble, not forgetting to shorten one door and lengthen the other.

 

Gibbo.

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4 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

Thinking about the guards door debacle, would it not be easier to fill the window and then mark and cut a new one into the other leaf rather than doing more cut and shut. After that the rearrangement of the door handles isn't too much trouble, not forgetting to shorten one door and lengthen the other.

 

Gibbo.

They could be done that way, but to be honest it's a lot of effort and I'm hoping to retain the door handles etc where possible, so for the sake of one extra cut each side it was easier to just cut both sides out and swap them over (as luckily they are the opposite arrangement on the other side).

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2 hours ago, GordonC said:

Can the pairs of doors not just be swapped between the sides so cut both off one side and use it for the opposite bodyside? would that not leave everything correct?

Yes, that is correct Gordon, and is the method I have adopted. More photos of progress later I hope.

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The brake compartment doors have now been reversed and the various joints sanded. The roof vents, being the wrong type for a class 107, have been removed too.

 

On the Lima cab fronts, the rain strips were removed as suggested by Gibbo and new ones fabricated from Microstrip to match the Hornby 110 strips. Also the headcode box has been beefed up with plasticard to hopefully give a profile more like that of the real thing once I have finished sanding it.

20191204_184608.jpg.816b311914553566cc682fb3712f8152.jpg20191204_184729.jpg.36fef9fb1e8ab781bd915213dd73e15c.jpg20191204_184912.jpg.988de3ac8db6010b5df8d216a957a2a9.jpg

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Hi Martyn,

 

The alterations to the head code box definitely looking much more like it, such a small modification has made a huge difference. I see the guards van door modification will prevent that niggling feeling that something is just wrong about the whole thing.

 

Gibbo.

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3 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

The alterations to the head code box definitely looking much more like it, such a small modification has made a huge difference. I see the guards van door modification will prevent that niggling feeling that something is just wrong about the whole thing.

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo,

Thanks. Now that most of the awkward jobs are done, I do feel much happier that the end result will be much better than had I not done so. 

 

I need to order some roof vents and buffers next; the vents look like the old LMS style coach vents? Best check before ordering I guess!

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