Signaller69's projects

[Signaller69]

I'm really enjoying your old-school chopping around of rtr stock. Nice to see in an era of super-detailed off the shelf stuff.

Thanks Max, it is one of my favourite parts of the hobby if I'm honest, particularly if I can produce something not available "off the shelf", more so if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg; yes there may be some inaccuracies but I can live with them. I also find it more rewarding than just opening a box, much as I enjoy the latter (sadly becoming a rare event lately).

 

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

A couple of hours today has seen exhausts and footsteps added to the cl.126 DMS inner end. I was unhappy with the cast headcode boxes which were a little oversized so these have been replaced with new ones fabricated from plasticard.

 

The body and chassis were then given a blast of grey and black car primer respectively. Thankfully there are only a couple of small blemishes to correct, followed by adding the etched door hinges (and handles where required) before the body receives a further thin coat of primer.

 

 

Soon be time to start sorting the roof methinks!

Thanks for looking.

 

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

Best laid plans and all that. . . In my haste to get on I should not have gone off photos of a preserved vehicle regarding end step positions. They were removed apart from the bottom one in a similar manner to Mk.1 coaches in later years as per the photo half way down this page: http://www.railcar.co.uk/images/class-126/all/2

 

The preserved vehicle must have had them refitted in preservation. Out with the scalpel again then. . .

[Max Legroom]

Thanks Max, it is one of my favourite parts of the hobby if I'm honest, particularly if I can produce something not available "off the shelf", more so if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg; yes there may be some inaccuracies but I can live with them. I also find it more rewarding than just opening a box, much as I enjoy the latter (sadly becoming a rare event lately).

 

Martyn.

Hi Martyn

 

I was thinking about this recently when doing a little bit of work to a Heljan non-boiler class 27 and recalling converting a Lima class 33 over 30 years ago. Lots of time, filler and plastic sheet as I recall! I'm not sure that I've got the patience these days but I know what you mean about finding the work rewarding. A while back I was having a clear out of some old wagons when I realized that a Lima bogie bolster and Hornby OBA could be made into decent models with a bit of work. They might not be up to present day standards but they look OK to me which is what counts.

 

All the best

 

Max

[turbos]

Hello Martyn

 

A brilliant idea to use the underscale Trix coaches to create these iconic Swindon DMUs, some nice cut and shut modelling. I recently inherited a rake of these coaches and had planned to try and sell them, plan now on hold. I guess the 79xxx Inter-City version would be just as doable.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

[Signaller69]

Hello Martyn

 

A brilliant idea to use the underscale Trix coaches to create these iconic Swindon DMUs, some nice cut and shut modelling. I recently inherited a rake of these coaches and had planned to try and sell them, plan now on hold. I guess the 79xxx Inter-City version would be just as doable.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

Thanks Brian, it does involve acceptance of some compromise and a lot of cutting! Trix (later Dapol) of course produced the Class 124 Trans Pennine power cars to the same scale; Trix did their Mk.1s in green to go with the power cars; these being quite sought after these days. If the window sizes and spacing are the same Swindon standard then yes it could be possible to produce scale length vehicles using the same cut and shut technique. Brian Kirby's thread (see my first 126 post above for link) is full of useful information on building Swindon units, and the Barrowmore MRG page has all the BR Diagram books, Book 220 has all the DMU arrangement plans: http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html .

 

Hope this helps. Good luck, make sure to post some photos!

 

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

Found some shell vents in my spares box so the roof has now been done on the 126 DMS, the end steps having been revised too. The Lima buffers were removed and replaced with Mk.1 buffer housings, ready to receive MJT 18" buffer heads.

Whilst browsing photos on the web there are several showing the odd vehicle still in green mixed with the BR Blue ones, so may do one vehicle in green, we shall see.

[Signaller69]

Shiny shiny! Basic colours applied using Railmatch aerosols (BR Blue & Warning Panel Yellow), just odd corners to touch up by brush. The roof is a dark grey car aerosol for plastic bumpers, applied over grey car primer. The front end was primed in white before the WP Yellow was applied, hence the headcode boxes were masked off; transfers will be printed black on clear decal film on my PC for these so the headcode characters will appear white. Corridor connections will be painted black with a Bachmann Mk.1 blanking plate fitted at the front to cover the corridor innards. Once all transfers are applied the whole vehicle will be sprayed with Matt varnish before being weathered (mainly the underframe).

[Signaller69]

The 126 interior is almost done, ready for painting now. Trix Mk.1 RMB interior used as basis with tables cut out and extra seats and lavatory compartment taken from a Composite grafted in; all held together by plasticard strips under the floor either side of the centre line. I should paint the inside of the bodyshell light grey for a better effect too. I would like eventually to flush glaze this unit but the thought of doing 3 (or 5) vehicles using hand cut clear plastic sheet isn't very appealing currently!

Jacking points added to the chassis in last photo too as I had forgotten them!

 

On with the lettering/numbering next.

[Legend]

Brilliant. One of my favourite units. Used to enjoy catching them on the Paisley Gilmour Street to Glasgow run.

[Signaller69]

Brilliant. One of my favourite units. Used to enjoy catching them on the Paisley Gilmour Street to Glasgow run.

Thanks, I never saw any in service sadly, being brought up in North Wales, but they seem to have something about them. I'm guessing the seats would have been the usual BR greeny-blue (second class) in their later years?

[Legend]

Thanks, I never saw any in service sadly, being brought up in North Wales, but they seem to have something about them. I'm guessing the seats would have been the usual BR greeny-blue (second class) in their later years?

Yes from memory blue and green checks. Sc59401 on here is actually restoring the real thing so can probably give you chapter and verse. As I said I loved these units , frequently catching them to and from Glasgow Central . On the way back on the 15.35 you could usually get a seat in one of the compartments on the centre car. It being non motored was also relatively quiet, compared to the motor cars which could give you a real shaking as they accelerated out of the station. Superb

[leopardml2341]

Like this?

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/62761-114-dtcl-longitudinal-seating/

[Signaller69]

Like this?

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/62761-114-dtcl-longitudinal-seating/

Similar colour, the 126's seem to have had plusher seats though: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/1257443568/gallery_7058_341_31087.jpg

 

The restored DMS seems to have red seats in one saloon though:http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/1257443568/gallery_7058_341_71687.jpg

 

Not sure if this is due to lack of enough seats all in matching colours, or to demonstrate an earlier colour scheme?

[Signaller69]

Yes from memory blue and green checks. Sc59401 on here is actually restoring the real thing so can probably give you chapter and verse. As I said I loved these units , frequently catching them to and from Glasgow Central . On the way back on the 15.35 you could usually get a seat in one of the compartments on the centre car. It being non motored was also relatively quiet, compared to the motor cars which could give you a real shaking as they accelerated out of the station. Superb

Thanks, yes SC59401 contributed to Brian Kirby's 126 build in Brian's thread mentioned earlier, which provided much impetus for my build. Lovely work the team have done on the preserved unit.

[leopardml2341]

Similar colour, the 126's seem to have had plusher seats though: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/1257443568/gallery_7058_341_31087.jpg

 

 

 

Ah, the 'class' differences between 'posh' Inter City mob and the hoi polloi having a day out at the seaside.

[Brian Kirby]

It's looking good Martyn, i'm all for alternative (and quicker methods than my own build), good idea using the 3.8mm scale bodies, the windows will be just that bit closer to Swindon DMU size, perhaps the Mainline BSKs and SKs (with their under-sized windows) could be used in a similar way, if you can still find any secondhand? The main reasons that I made my own sides, were to get the window size right, to get the window-spacing right, to avoid all the joins which would need smoothing down, and to give the sides the correct profile/tumblehome, with straight above the waist, and curved below, whereas Mk1s had continuously curved sides. It hardly shows, it didn't bother my mate Paul James, when he built his Class 123 and 124, and they look excellent.

   Building the non-gangway full-width cab needn't be that scary, I made my sides full length to include the driver's side window, and angled the ends to match the full-cab profile, then just needed to add the cab front. For my blank fronts, I cut out one over-size square of 20 or 30 thou, scored a horizontal line across and below where the front windows will be, then cut two vertical tapered slots down the middle, but leaving the very middle uncut. Then you can fold, file and glue the cab to the right shape, all a bit like Origami. When set, the new over-size cab can be glued over the ends, in the perfect position. When this has set hard, the excess plastic all around can be trimmed off, and all joints and folds can be reinforced on the inside with spare plastic. The cab windows can then be marked out and cut. I made my cab roofs by chopping up triangles of Mk1 roof off-cuts. Of course you may have already thought up your own method.

        Your next bit of fun, will be building the centre TCK with first-class spacing and the centre pair of doors-in-windows! I like the seats in your interiors, they're better than mine, my passengers have to sit on cold flat slabs of SP plastic. Incidentally, the 5xxxx and 7xxxx bodies have a lot of common features and similarities, but "John 59401" pointed out to me that the toilet windows on 5xxxx stock are slightly narrower. HTH.

                                     Cheers, Brian.   (I must stop doing Derby units, and get back to finishing some of my other 126 cars, ah well back to the DMU grindstone)

[Legend]

The two of you make it look simple , but it's far from it. Would love one of these units

[Signaller69]

It's looking good Martyn, i'm all for alternative (and quicker methods than my own build), good idea using the 3.8mm scale bodies, the windows will be just that bit closer to Swindon DMU size, perhaps the Mainline BSKs and SKs (with their under-sized windows) could be used in a similar way, if you can still find any secondhand? The main reasons that I made my own sides, were to get the window size right, to get the window-spacing right, to avoid all the joins which would need smoothing down, and to give the sides the correct profile/tumblehome, with straight above the waist, and curved below, whereas Mk1s had continuously curved sides. It hardly shows, it didn't bother my mate Paul James, when he built his Class 123 and 124, and they look excellent.

Building the non-gangway full-width cab needn't be that scary, I made my sides full length to include the driver's side window, and angled the ends to match the full-cab profile, then just needed to add the cab front. For my blank fronts, I cut out one over-size square of 20 or 30 thou, scored a horizontal line across and below where the front windows will be, then cut two vertical tapered slots down the middle, but leaving the very middle uncut. Then you can fold, file and glue the cab to the right shape, all a bit like Origami. When set, the new over-size cab can be glued over the ends, in the perfect position. When this has set hard, the excess plastic all around can be trimmed off, and all joints and folds can be reinforced on the inside with spare plastic. The cab windows can then be marked out and cut. I made my cab roofs by chopping up triangles of Mk1 roof off-cuts. Of course you may have already thought up your own method.

Your next bit of fun, will be building the centre TCK with first-class spacing and the centre pair of doors-in-windows! I like the seats in your interiors, they're better than mine, my passengers have to sit on cold flat slabs of SP plastic. Incidentally, the 5xxxx and 7xxxx bodies have a lot of common features and similarities, but "John 59401" pointed out to me that the toilet windows on 5xxxx stock are slightly narrower. HTH.

Cheers, Brian. (I must stop doing Derby units, and get back to finishing some of my other 126 cars, ah well back to the DMU grindstone)

Many thanks Brian, your 126 build is what inspired me to be honest, I just didn't consider my skills up to trying to cut out all those windows to a consistent size, in the right places and all in perfect alignment, and then getting the body profile right so I am happy to live with the compromise.

 

I plan on using your method to do the full cab end, it is pure genius, especially with regard to how you tackled the cab roof so thanks for sharing how you did it. Regarding the Mainline Mk.1s, I did consider them but their SK would need the area between each window section reducing to model the DMS in order to add the cab end extension. Also the Mainline body is quite thick as far as I recall, though they seem readily available from swapmeets still.

 

The Trix coaches are very similar in construction to Triang ones. It wouldn't be impossible to correct the body profile once altered by using sandpaper wrapped round a flat piece of wood to flatten down the window area, followed by the lower bodyside at an angle to the window area if you get my drift, though care would be needed not to lose the window relief around the "sliding" windows, and new door lines would need to scribed (I had to do this anyway due to extending depth of the sides).

 

The TCK bodysides will probably be tackled next, on paper the spacings of Trix first class windows is almost spot on, yes I accept the central compartment door/window arrangement will be fun though! I am after a Lima 117 centre car chassis for this, can swap for a couple of 117 bodies I now have spare ha ha!

 

Talking of Lima 117 chassis, I found with this project that lowering them on the bogies makes a massive difference visually. I intend to replace the wheels with Alan Gibson DMU wheels on Lima length axles.

 

Anyway thanks again Brian, keep up your inspiring work!

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

[Brian Kirby]

I've never owned any Trix/Liliput Mk1s, although I am aware of them, I was brought up a Tri-ang kid, until I wore long trousers, then I started buying old Kitmaster Mk1s! I remember Trix did a BSO and a Miniature Buffet (RMB), but what was the other one?

  Completely agree about lowering the Lima 117 chassis, makes a world of difference, suddenly it stops being a toy, and becomes a scale model. Do you cut a square hole in the floor, like me, the motor bogies are more difficult?

   In a previous life, I used to work at MRM Co.Ltd (King's Cross Models) in York Way, we were the nearest train shop to Eisenmann & Co. in Grays Inn Road, then the Lima importers/distributors, before Riko took over in the mid-1980s. The boss at Eisenmann (Dave Whalton) would often pop into MRM, between bulk deliveries, to pick our railway brains for new ideas, with which he could report back to Lima in Italy. Along with the Deltic, one of our suggestions was the Class 117 dmu, partly because my boss Tony Dyer used to commute on them! When first produced, they only made either a powered or un-powered DMBS in blue or green, the trailer composite, plus white-blue and blue-grey liveries didn't appear until a year or two later, they never made a proper DMS for the other end. It was pointed out to them that the model moulds could be tweaked into producing a 3-car Gloucester Cross Country set, but that idea went on to the back burner. The last Lima model idea we supplied before Riko took over, was for a Class 25/3 diesel, but this was dropped when Hornby announced their very similar Class 25/1 model. I've still got all the photos, taken by staff member Mike Warburton, for this project.

                                                                               Cheers, Brian.

[Signaller69]

I've never owned any Trix/Liliput Mk1s, although I am aware of them, I was brought up a Tri-ang kid, until I wore long trousers, then I started buying old Kitmaster Mk1s! I remember Trix did a BSO and a Miniature Buffet (RMB), but what was the other one?

Completely agree about lowering the Lima 117 chassis, makes a world of difference, suddenly it stops being a toy, and becomes a scale model. Do you cut a square hole in the floor, like me, the motor bogies are more difficult?

In a previous life, I used to work at MRM Co.Ltd (King's Cross Models) in York Way, we were the nearest train shop to Eisenmann & Co. in Grays Inn Road, then the Lima importers/distributors, before Riko took over in the mid-1980s. The boss at Eisenmann (Dave Whalton) would often pop into MRM, between bulk deliveries, to pick our railway brains for new ideas, with which he could report back to Lima in Italy. Along with the Deltic, one of our suggestions was the Class 117 dmu, partly because my boss Tony Dyer used to commute on them! When first produced, they only made either a powered or un-powered DMBS in blue or green, the trailer composite, plus white-blue and blue-grey liveries didn't appear until a year or two later, they never made a proper DMS for the other end. It was pointed out to them that the model moulds could be tweaked into producing a 3-car Gloucester Cross Country set, but that idea went on to the back burner. The last Lima model idea we supplied before Riko took over, was for a Class 25/3 diesel, but this was dropped when Hornby announced their very similar Class 25/1 model. I've still got all the photos, taken by staff member Mike Warburton, for this project.

Cheers, Brian.

Fascinating stuff Brian, no wonder you like working with Lima 117's so much, something of a claim to fame there! I reckon a Lima 25/3 and Gloucester Cross Country set would have sold well but obviously it wasn't to be.

 

The third Trix (later Lilliput) Mk.1 was the Composite (CK); they all had correct roof layouts too. The brake end was actually a BCK, not a BSO, confusion possibly caused by them omitting the yellow first class stripe (even though the CK had one)! I only became aware of them in the mid 80s when I purchased a secondhand one, I remember the old Forum model shop in Chester was still selling new (Lilliput) ones for £9.20; the RRP for Lima Mk.1s being something like £6 at the time iirc! I think they were hand assembled in small batches, the colour shades used were remarkably good for the time although there were oddities such as the missing first class stripe and BR coach roundels on some of the blue/grey versions.

 

Regarding lowering, yes I cut out the oblong lower section around the bogie mounting hole and re-affixed them about 1-2mm higher with plasticard supports and epoxy resin. On the powered car the dummy bogie is similar to this but I agree the motor bogie will need a bit more thought and care when I get to it.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi again Martyn,

      I can't claim sole credit for the choice of Class 117, but I was in the room when the idea was discussed, and remember giving it the thumbs up. You seem to lower your DMU floors a slightly different way, I cut out a square section around each bogie pivot boss on the chassis, but not for re-use. Instead I glue a new slab of plasticard in the recess above the floor, and drill a new pivot hole through this. This lowers the floor on to the bogies by around 1mm/40 thou of an inch. Either method will be fine.

      Thanks for clearing up my confusion over Trix/Liliput Mk1s, interesting to hear about them being sold late on in Chester, in the Liliput years (1970s - mid 80s) irregular batches of various British Trix models were still being produced in Bala, which is not that far from Chester? In London, we used to receive deliveries of Trans-Pennine units and odd LNER locos, about twice a year/once in a blue moon, they'd all sell out in about a week, then nothing for another six months. Bala was quite useful for buying odd spare parts like dmu bogies and AC pantographs.

                                                                           Cheers, Brian.

[Signaller69]

Hi again Martyn,

      I can't claim sole credit for the choice of Class 117, but I was in the room when the idea was discussed, and remember giving it the thumbs up. You seem to lower your DMU floors a slightly different way, I cut out a square section around each bogie pivot boss on the chassis, but not for re-use. Instead I glue a new slab of plasticard in the recess above the floor, and drill a new pivot hole through this. This lowers the floor on to the bogies by around 1mm/40 thou of an inch. Either method will be fine.

      Thanks for clearing up my confusion over Trix/Liliput Mk1s, interesting to hear about them being sold late on in Chester, in the Liliput years (1970s - mid 80s) irregular batches of various British Trix models were still being produced in Bala, which is not that far from Chester? In London, we used to receive deliveries of Trans-Pennine units and odd LNER locos, about twice a year/once in a blue moon, they'd all sell out in about a week, then nothing for another six months. Bala was quite useful for buying odd spare parts like dmu bogies and AC pantographs.

                                                                           Cheers, Brian.

Great stuff Brian,

you have just brought back a memory of visiting the Lilliput premises in Bala as a teenager, I would guess in the mid 80s, to pick up a new motor for my prized Lilliput Class 81 electric loco, after burning one out (don't ask how, it involved superglue!), they used very high quality Buhler motors as you may recall. The shop was actually a small office in an industrial unit on the site of the old Bala (Town) Station, but I don't recall seeing any Lilliput items on display, just loads of European plastic kits (Faller possibly), presumably they were wholesalers for them.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

[MJI]

I've never owned any Trix/Liliput Mk1s, although I am aware of them, I was brought up a Tri-ang kid, until I wore long trousers, then I started buying old Kitmaster Mk1s! I remember Trix did a BSO and a Miniature Buffet (RMB), but what was the other one?

  Completely agree about lowering the Lima 117 chassis, makes a world of difference, suddenly it stops being a toy, and becomes a scale model. Do you cut a square hole in the floor, like me, the motor bogies are more difficult?

   In a previous life, I used to work at MRM Co.Ltd (King's Cross Models) in York Way, we were the nearest train shop to Eisenmann & Co. in Grays Inn Road, then the Lima importers/distributors, before Riko took over in the mid-1980s. The boss at Eisenmann (Dave Whalton) would often pop into MRM, between bulk deliveries, to pick our railway brains for new ideas, with which he could report back to Lima in Italy. Along with the Deltic, one of our suggestions was the Class 117 dmu, partly because my boss Tony Dyer used to commute on them! When first produced, they only made either a powered or un-powered DMBS in blue or green, the trailer composite, plus white-blue and blue-grey liveries didn't appear until a year or two later, they never made a proper DMS for the other end. It was pointed out to them that the model moulds could be tweaked into producing a 3-car Gloucester Cross Country set, but that idea went on to the back burner. The last Lima model idea we supplied before Riko took over, was for a Class 25/3 diesel, but this was dropped when Hornby announced their very similar Class 25/1 model. I've still got all the photos, taken by staff member Mike Warburton, for this project.

                                                                               Cheers, Brian.

 

 

I sold a RMB and BCK on Ebay a while ago, bought cheap 30 years ago, and found, too small

[Signaller69]

As it seems to have piqued some interest, a few notes about the Trix coaches and their useability for this Class 126 project.

 

When first introduced they were the only Mk.1 RTR coaches to have 100mph Commonwealth bogies (which had very decent relief, albeit not quite up to modern standards, but very free running, and fitted with blackened metal wheels), a situation which lasted until Mainline released their Restaurant Buffet car. Although fitted with Hornby Dublo/ Peco type couplings, the other end of the bogie had a mounting plate for tension locks. Very considerate. Other manufacturers fitted all their Mk.1 coaches with 90mph BR1 bogies. The coach ends are also correct for post 1965ish vehicles in only having one end footstep and no corridor shield above the corridor connection. Triang, Hornby, Lima, Mainline (except the RB) and even most current Bachmann Mk.1s have these in full. Even the buffers are a nice representation of the retracted position Mk.1 type, and the roof is correct on each type of vehicle. Coupled with the unusual scale (Perhaps Trix were ahead of the game with the OO vs HO arguments and found the middle ground), they clearly wanted to do something a little different?

 

Yet despite these nice touches, Trix let themselves down in terms of livery oddities and glazing strips which for some reason I can't fathom, never seemed to be long enough, leaving end doors half glazed! (Unless acetate shrinks over time?!)

 

Of more specific use for my project, the corridor ends have removable bufferbeams which leave a nice flat surface underneath - once cut away from the chassis (cut made where the knife blade can be seen) they are an easy screw or glue fit to the modified Lima DMU chassis:

 

Although obviously very dated by current standards I still have a soft spot for these coaches and their versatility for modifications/butchery is very handy too!