Jump to content

Signaller69's projects: oldskool Hornby 25 conversions with resin u/f etc details


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

What you are doing is pretty much the same as what I do. I refit the buffer beams using epoxy resin after heavily scoring the jointing faces and drilling a few shallow holes at jaunty angles to allow the resin a good key as glues don't really take to the polythene type plastic very well.

 

Do you fit larger diameter wheels ? I use either Hornby class 86 wheels or LNER tender drive wheels.

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo,

I've not given much thought to changing the wheels (partly as they are fairly well hidden, but mainly to keep the budget down), I remember you mentioning you had swapped them; were they a straight swap or does it require bogie mods? And do you have any side-on photos? 

 

Could be something to consider for the future!

 

Martyn.

Edited by Signaller69
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is all very interesting - I converted mine to a 25/0 many, many years ago as a teenager. I recently dug it out of the box and was surprised by how many modifications had been needed to make the switch - I assume I followed a magazine article of the day, perhaps in Model Trains?

 

I have now obtained another power bogie and have some EM Ultrascale wheels on order, so, with a little refinement, it will live again. I remember it as a really sweet runner, and I still think Hornby captured the shape very well.

 

DSC_0058.JPG.c4bff78aea2ce7aaab33e95c6719afa2.JPG

  • Like 11
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Barclay said:

This is all very interesting - I converted mine to a 25/0 many, many years ago as a teenager. I recently dug it out of the box and was surprised by how many modifications had been needed to make the switch - I assume I followed a magazine article of the day, perhaps in Model Trains?

 

I have now obtained another power bogie and have some EM Ultrascale wheels on order, so, with a little refinement, it will live again. I remember it as a really sweet runner, and I still think Hornby captured the shape very well.

 

DSC_0058.JPG.c4bff78aea2ce7aaab33e95c6719afa2.JPG

Hi Barclay,

thanks for sharing the inspiring photo, yours looks excellent. Yes there is a fair amount of work needed for the 25/0, but worth it for the variety it brings.

I agree they captured the overall shape very well for an early 80s model and they can indeed run quite sweetly.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Announced in 1977, 44 years ago and in those days the models ususally appeared in the same year as they were announced.

All without the assistance of computers !!!

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Barclay said:

This is all very interesting - I converted mine to a 25/0 many, many years ago as a teenager. I recently dug it out of the box and was surprised by how many modifications had been needed to make the switch - I assume I followed a magazine article of the day, perhaps in Model Trains?

 

I have now obtained another power bogie and have some EM Ultrascale wheels on order, so, with a little refinement, it will live again. I remember it as a really sweet runner, and I still think Hornby captured the shape very well.

 

DSC_0058.JPG.c4bff78aea2ce7aaab33e95c6719afa2.JPG

Lovely job.
Has tempted me into trying a 25/0 myself.
I have two Hornby locos.
One coverted to a 24 by my Friend Coachbogie as a Christmas present 32 years ago. The other had a Craftsman 25/3 conversion kit fitted some 38years ago.
Both of them run very sweetly even now. I'm very fond of both.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bufferbeams have been refitted after removing the Hornby shanks. As they are about 1.5 to 2mm lower than their original position, plasticard strips were used as spacers, all fixed in place with EMA Plasticweld. The lower edge just sits on the triangular bogie coupling fillets, but these will be removed in any case.

20210724_141638.jpg.ee01cf2b29d8b06518dcdb243271d21a.jpg20210724_141731.jpg.2f32d699b838223d1216c1d649f061bb.jpg

 

A roof panel akin to the Bachmann 24 style has been made from a scrap piece of Lima 117 DMU roof which matches the Hornby 25 roof profile pretty well. The intention is to use this as a master to cast resin copies.

20210724_141804.jpg.5af7e2410656f3b2664c8c72784d75c0.jpg20210724_141833.jpg.9d953236a1725d715b2e7adeab95adc9.jpg

 

More body mods next.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 22/07/2021 at 23:55, Signaller69 said:

Hi Gibbo,

I've not given much thought to changing the wheels (partly as they are fairly well hidden, but mainly to keep the budget down), I remember you mentioning you had swapped them; were they a straight swap or does it require bogie mods? And do you have any side-on photos? 

 

Could be something to consider for the future!

 

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

 

Here is a photograph of one of mine with the larger diameter wheels.

 

1954702360_DSCF14791.JPG.ac015b43c4c49359086523268d3fc912.JPG

Don't look too closely at the wonky number four !

 

1426840345_DSCF14801.JPG.54cf1c55d811fe26c75e3c4d6f99ee79.JPG

Shewing the underside for the bogie where reliefs have been cut to allow flange clearance.

 

Gibbo.

Edited by Gibbo675
Additional photograph.
  • Like 4
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

Here is a photograph of one of mine with the larger diameter wheels.

 

1954702360_DSCF14791.JPG.ac015b43c4c49359086523268d3fc912.JPG

Don't look too closely at the wonky number four !

 

1426840345_DSCF14801.JPG.54cf1c55d811fe26c75e3c4d6f99ee79.JPG

Shewing the underside for the bogie where reliefs have been cut to allow flange clearance.

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo,

That looks pretty conclusive, thanks for that. I assume the drive gear size is the same as on the 25 wheels then? 

 

Martyn.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

Hi Gibbo,

That looks pretty conclusive, thanks for that. I assume the drive gear size is the same as on the 25 wheels then? 

 

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

 

The gears on the back are indeed the same, in fact the motor unit is the same as is used in the class 86 although the outer of the the two drillings is used for the longer wheel base of the class 86. Do be aware that the ride height is raised by the difference in radius of the the wheel sets which works out at 1.375mm. I cut down the lugs that project upwards of the sides of the bogies to counter this effect, is saves about .5mm.

 

Gibbo.

  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

The gears on the back are indeed the same, in fact the motor unit is the same as is used in the class 86 although the outer of the the two drillings is used for the longer wheel base of the class 86. Do be aware that the ride height is raised by the difference in radius of the the wheel sets which works out at 1.375mm. I cut down the lugs that project upwards of the sides of the bogies to counter this effect, is saves about .5mm.

 

Gibbo.

Thanks Gibbo, yes I realise the ride height would be raised by 1mm or so and have yet to trim the lugs on the current loco, which currently is as near as dammit the same height as a new Bachmann 24. 

20210724_164720.jpg.f09b4ac4b0f463cb6162b49a5d0d70f8.jpg

 

Had a quick trawl through Lendons and Peter's Spares but the large Ringfield disc wheels (for the 86 or A3 type Steam loco tenders) seem to be not available - the latest Hornby 86s & 90s, it seems, have the newer type drive bogie and wheels (as per the ex Lima 87) which are different. However I will keep looking to see if I can pick some up.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

With this specimen set to become a 25/0, work has started on the body. The main mods I am undertaking are:

-Removal of headcode box wings & horns;

-drilling out and adding the cantrail boiler water filler* cutouts.

-removal/filling in of original exhaust and steam heat vent positions, and fitting new exhaust* in later position;

-drilling out the roof fan and fitting a Shawplan replacement;

-removing cab front detail and replacing with more appropriate detail, including adding a new lower edge of correct profile (and cab side skirts* added to the chassis);

-Adding cab side door overlays* flush with the sides.

 

* = planned resin parts.

 

Plus other bits as required appropriate to the prototype.

 

First cuts:

20210724_225358.jpg.b6eb8250a968e963f369bdd5d45a7a2c.jpg

 

filler added & cab end details being removed:

20210725_144058.jpg.cfdf8c962cddb72e078142ebbf32968f.jpg

 

20210725_144024.jpg.ad097bc8a1b6bf9b798606f4ed20a8f4.jpg

 

The outer cab front windows should have the depth reduced by about 1mm for the 24 & 25/0 so I am looking to see if there is a straightforward and neat way of achieving this, but if not they may stay as they are.

 

Martyn.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Signaller69 changed the title to Signaller69's projects: oldskool Hornby 25 conversions with resin u/f etc details
24 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

With this specimen set to become a 25/0, work has started on the body. The main mods I am undertaking are:

-Removal of headcode box wings & horns;

-drilling out and adding the cantrail boiler water filler* cutouts.

-removal/filling in of original exhaust and steam heat vent positions, and fitting new exhaust* in later position;

-drilling out the roof fan and fitting a Shawplan replacement;

-removing cab front detail and replacing with more appropriate detail, including adding a new lower edge of correct profile (and cab side skirts* added to the chassis);

-Adding cab side door overlays* flush with the sides.

 

* = planned resin parts.

 

Plus other bits as required appropriate to the prototype.

 

First cuts:

20210724_225358.jpg.b6eb8250a968e963f369bdd5d45a7a2c.jpg

 

filler added & cab end details being removed:

20210725_144058.jpg.cfdf8c962cddb72e078142ebbf32968f.jpg

 

20210725_144024.jpg.ad097bc8a1b6bf9b798606f4ed20a8f4.jpg

 

The outer cab front windows should have the depth reduced by about 1mm for the 24 & 25/0 so I am looking to see if there is a straightforward and neat way of achieving this, but if not they may stay as they are.

 

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

 

I've got myself another 25 which is going to be a late 25/2  probably 7616, I shall be cutting up a Lima class33 body to provide the cantrail vents.

 

So far I have, 24 021, 24 033, 5184 (25 034), 25 064, and 25 317 all are painted blue with arrows except for 24 033 which has a crest. Which means I am missing 24/1's of both cab styles, a 25/0 and 25/2's of both body styles, only another four types to do if my latest is numbered as a 25/2. Also all of the above are blue and so a two tone green and an economy green version might look good in the mix. My plans so far are 5081 in economy green with full yellow ends, a grey roof and arrows, 24 136 in economy green with a blue boiler blank and a crest, 25 247 in blue just because and also it was a Springs Branch engine and 7616 (25 266) two tone green and tablet catcher recesses.

 

I have even considered 24 055 which in 1973 had odd ball cabs with a head code cab fitted at No.1 end and the original cab with discs fitted at the other, that will definitely be for another day though.

 

Gibbo.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

I've got myself another 25 which is going to be a late 25/2  probably 7616, I shall be cutting up a Lima class33 body to provide the cantrail vents.

 

So far I have, 24 021, 24 033, 5184 (25 034), 25 064, and 25 317 all are painted blue with arrows except for 24 033 which has a crest. Which means I am missing 24/1's of both cab styles, a 25/0 and 25/2's of both body styles, only another four types to do if my latest is numbered as a 25/2. Also all of the above are blue and so a two tone green and an economy green version might look good in the mix. My plans so far are 5081 in economy green with full yellow ends, a grey roof and arrows, 24 136 in economy green with a blue boiler blank and a crest, 25 247 in blue just because and also it was a Springs Branch engine and 7616 (25 266) two tone green and tablet catcher recesses.

 

I have even considered 24 055 which in 1973 had odd ball cabs with a head code cab fitted at No.1 end and the original cab with discs fitted at the other, that will definitely be for another day though.

 

Gibbo.

 

Nice selection there Gibbo. I like the ode to 25 247.

 

I've not decided on the guises for the batch of locos I'm doing, other than they will all be pre-TOPS numbered and probably evenly split between the various green and blue livery variations.

 

Some may require odd remaining sections of the lower skirting adding, depending on the photos I'm working from, so I'm looking at ways of replicating this, possibly in resin again.

 

Martyn.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

A combination of drilling and filing was used to make the square holes for the water tank filler hatches.20210726_003949.jpg.a640d40f9bf9f71f5a8406e0fa611ce6.jpg

 

The fillers themselves were made from scraps of plasticard. Once again they will be used as masters to make resin copies (hopefully) as they are rather tedious to make. Seen loosely fitted here:

20210726_003509.jpg.97baa2a73dc954b5ffbc1f7b9039a2f5.jpg

 

I have also started to sand the various areas where filler has been used:

20210726_003200.jpg.36b9c8c919d5973391b33a4570f9297d.jpg

 

Lots to do yet!

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

As mentioned, one area I'm mulling over is the cab front windows, which on a 24 or 25/0 should be about 1mm shallower than a later 25 at the bottom edge, plus the gangway connection top should be a little higher to my eyes. I had the idea of using a Dremel to cut across above the gangway connection between the outer windows and down each side (photo gives the idea), trim a fraction away and lift the whole lower section up, adding a fillet along the lower edge to make up the depth (which for a 24 & 25/0 needs adding in any case), but this raises various problems of alignment when the parts (at various slight angles) are rejoined. Obviously if it goes wrong the body is scrap, but what if......

20210726_074933.jpg.572ba1e8f1ce83a12800146a370539f4.jpg

 

Looks the sort of job best attempted after a few ales, not sure I've got the bottle though (see what I did there.....), the jury is most definitely out on this, possibly a step too far!

 

Thoughts anyone?:dontknow::mocking_mini:

  • Like 2
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't aware of the difference in the height of the gangway door, so mine is standard. I did infill at the bottom of the windows with plasticard. Your method will look better, if you do it.

 

I have found that in such situations the best thing is to get the violent, messy part out of the way as quickly as possible - then there's no going back and you're obliged to put it right!

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Signaller69 said:

As mentioned, one area I'm mulling over is the cab front windows, which on a 24 or 25/0 should be about 1mm shallower than a later 25 at the bottom edge, plus the gangway connection top should be a little higher to my eyes. I had the idea of using a Dremel to cut across above the gangway connection between the outer windows and down each side (photo gives the idea), trim a fraction away and lift the whole lower section up, adding a fillet along the lower edge to make up the depth (which for a 24 & 25/0 needs adding in any case), but this raises various problems of alignment when the parts (at various slight angles) are rejoined. Obviously if it goes wrong the body is scrap, but what if......

20210726_074933.jpg.572ba1e8f1ce83a12800146a370539f4.jpg

 

Looks the sort of job best attempted after a few ales, not sure I've got the bottle though (see what I did there.....), the jury is most definitely out on this, possibly a step too far!

 

Thoughts anyone?:dontknow::mocking_mini:

Martyn,

 

You do have a 'knack' for noticing small differences between Classes (and coaches). I had to get out my little 1982 Bradford Barton 'booklet' called 'BR Class 24/25 Diesels' and consult my old 'Combined Volumes' to observe the differences you noted.

 

As to the 'correction work', I'd be tempted to cut as shown in green below. It involves less cutting length, and should give less 'distortion' once you raise the cutout part by the requisite ~1mm. Also, the main body of the loco is not compromised by the cutting.

 

Great work by the way.

 

Ian

20210726_074933.jpg.572ba1e8f1ce83a12800146a370539f4.jpg.2c0015f78588b1610e3bd8533f2a907f.jpg

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Barclay said:

I wasn't aware of the difference in the height of the gangway door, so mine is standard. I did infill at the bottom of the windows with plasticard. Your method will look better, if you do it.

 

I have found that in such situations the best thing is to get the violent, messy part out of the way as quickly as possible - then there's no going back and you're obliged to put it right!

Filling in the lower edge of the windows with plasticard is probably the safer way to go out of the 2 options. Looking at photos the top of the gangway should be a little nearer the centre window, it's not a massive difference and on it's own I wouldn't go out of the way to amend it, but if cut as shown to reduce the windows this would be an added bonus. Again a plasticard fillet could be used instead though.

4 hours ago, ISW said:

Martyn,

 

You do have a 'knack' for noticing small differences between Classes (and coaches). I had to get out my little 1982 Bradford Barton 'booklet' called 'BR Class 24/25 Diesels' and consult my old 'Combined Volumes' to observe the differences you noted.

 

As to the 'correction work', I'd be tempted to cut as shown in green below. It involves less cutting length, and should give less 'distortion' once you raise the cutout part by the requisite ~1mm. Also, the main body of the loco is not compromised by the cutting.

 

Great work by the way.

 

Ian

20210726_074933.jpg.572ba1e8f1ce83a12800146a370539f4.jpg.2c0015f78588b1610e3bd8533f2a907f.jpg

 

Thanks Ian,

Regarding the windows, this was something I only read about elsewhere in the past couple of years or so (as with the Mk2c's), I hadn't noticed myself before that time as it's not what I would call an "obvious" difference, and like you had to reach for reference books to confirm this, so I can take no credit for noticing it; indeed my Highland 24 has unmodified windows.

 

I prefer your marked cut locations, but the very small vertical cuts by the windows could be difficult unless I find my piercing saw blades (if I even have any, its been a while!) and it would take some very neat work to pull it all off convincingly, so I'm still undecided.

 

4 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

Do the marker lights on the cab need moving? At the least they need to be improved from the little nipples they are now.

I agree they are not the best rendition. They look about the right location on a headcode box loco, but not for a disc fitted 24 (new ones higher up would be needed as discs sit over the Hornby location). On the last 25 I did I drilled them through with a 1mm drill, counter-sunk the holes slightly with a 2mm drill (iirc) and inserted 1mm rod for the "lens", and will probably do something similar with these conversions.

 

Thanks all.

Martyn.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, sulzer71 said:

@Signaller69 , Martyn , don't know if they would be of any interest to you but there's a couple of Bachmann 24's on ebay right now modified as 'Highland Rats' 

Hi,

Thanks for the heads up, I'm not currently after any further Highland versions unfortunately; indeed the locos awaiting conversion I have here will keep me tied up for a while at any rate!

 

Thanks anyway.

Martyn. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Comparing with an SLW 24 gives a definitive view on the window sizes, gangway height etc. 

20210726_175203.jpg.5f07762591e71d1ed566fadf5b960f6b.jpg

 

It also shows, I think, what a good job Hornby did of capturing the cab roof curvature and "face" of the 25 (and also the understated marker lights as Dave mentioned earlier).

Edited by Signaller69
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

Comparing with an SLW 24 gives a definitive view on the window sizes, gangway height etc. 

20210726_175203.jpg.5f07762591e71d1ed566fadf5b960f6b.jpg

 

It also shows, I think, what a good job Hornby did of capturing the cab roof curvature and "face" of the 25 (and also the understated marker lights as Dave mentioned earlier).

Sutton Loco works ???

 

That's cheating !!!

  • Funny 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...