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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, leopardml2341 said:

Given that the boiler filler access steps are plated over, it can only be blue......

Hi Andy,

Looking at photos most, if not all 46s had the access steps plated by 1970ish regardless of livery, despite the roof water fillers seemingly being retained; boiler water filler cocks were added above the bogies too. Most of the blue ones seem to have had the small bodyside grilles at the No.2 end (level with the main long bodyside grilles) covered at, or shortly after repainting blue though, many seemingly being repainted when fitted with air brakes.

Edited by Signaller69
Grille Clarification.
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IIRC, the plating of the triangular grilles was associated with the fitting of air brake equipment. GFYE 46's are thin on the ground. I can recall 166 and 183 being two examples..... Link to a pic of 166 here:

 

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/34106?postId=49437&fbclid=IwAR0vR1X59TLYPIm5tujUukwmAbiZh4Ddr9gLoqcZ30ptXlLyUt5H5KVMO7M

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10 minutes ago, leopardml2341 said:

IIRC, the plating of the triangular grilles was associated with the fitting of air brake equipment. GFYE 46's are thin on the ground. I can recall 166 and 183 being two examples..... Link to a pic of 166 here:

 

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/34106?postId=49437&fbclid=IwAR0vR1X59TLYPIm5tujUukwmAbiZh4Ddr9gLoqcZ30ptXlLyUt5H5KVMO7M

The fitting of triangular grilles was one of the features of the Class 46s being refurbished by Brush 1967-68 time before the fitting of airbrakes, many were turned out in green before BR let Brush paint them blue despite Brush had already delivered some blue 47s.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, leopardml2341 said:

IIRC, the plating of the triangular grilles was associated with the fitting of air brake equipment. GFYE 46's are thin on the ground. I can recall 166 and 183 being two examples..... Link to a pic of 166 here:

 

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/34106?postId=49437&fbclid=IwAR0vR1X59TLYPIm5tujUukwmAbiZh4Ddr9gLoqcZ30ptXlLyUt5H5KVMO7M

Thanks Andy,

Photos of them are like rocking horse doo-dah!

If going green, 166 is a likely candidate, though viewing on my phone I can't tell from that photo if the small grille was plated at the time of that photo, I suspect it was as it looks a lighter colour.

 

D159 is another candidate, with only plated bodyside footsteps, again vac brakes only at the time, as per this Flickr photo (click photo for full caption):

1971 - Green 'Peak' at Bristol..

One issue with the Economy green locos is the roof colours as again there seem to be variations between original style (all grey), grey with green cab roofs and some with green also extended up to the roof panels. Who says diesels are all the same?!

 

Martyn

Edited by Signaller69
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8 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

They are like rocking horse doo-dah!

If going green, 166 is a likely candidate, though viewing on my phone I can't tell from that photo if the small grille was plated at the time of that photo, I suspect it was as it looks a lighter colour.

 

D159 is another candidate, with only plated bodyside footsteps, again vac brakes only at the time, as per this Flickr photo (click photo for full caption):

1971 - Green 'Peak' at Bristol..

One issue with the Economy green locos is the roof colours as again there seem to be variations between original style (all grey), grey with green cab roofs and some with green also extended up to the roof panels. Who says diesels are all the same?!

Hi Martyn,

 

The photograph seems to shew that the triangular grille is not plated over as I can see a rib around the perimeter, also the steps do appear to be blanked off.

 

A goodly dose of weathering will sort the roof colour out !

 

Gibbo.

Edited by Gibbo675
Weathing
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Posted (edited)

In terms of going blue, D177 is a preferred option as per this ex-works Ebay photo link (hence the do not copy bit). Again only the footsteps plated, but with air brakes this time.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-DIESEL-TRAIN-RAILWAY-PHOTOGRAPH-OF-CLASS-46-D177-LOCO-RM46-50-/392288654187

The green boiler water filler cock can be seen above the leading bogie too.

 

In purely simple terms, blue livery is more standardised than the green variations it seems, even with variations in covered grilles etc.

Edited by Signaller69
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2 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

The photograph seems to shew that the triangular grille is not plated over as I can see a rib around the perimeter, also the steps do appear to be blanked off.

 

A goodly dose of weathering will sort the roof colour out !

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo, sorry, by the small grille I meant the one at the No.2 end at the same level as the long bodyside grille (on the link to D166). It isn't covered on the photo of D159.

 

Yes, roof dirt I suspect, will feature heavily!

 

Martyn.

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5 minutes ago, Signaller69 said:

Hi Gibbo, sorry, by the small grille I meant the one at the No.2 end at the same level as the long bodyside grille (on the link to D166). It isn't covered on the photo of D159.

 

Yes, roof dirt I suspect, will feature heavily!

 

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

 

I've had another look and there does appear to be a grille there rather than plated over.

 

Gibbo.

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2 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

I've had another look and there does appear to be a grille there rather than plated over.

 

Gibbo.

Thanks Gibbo, it is the only photo of that loco in that colour scheme I have seen, so that is handy to know!

 

Martyn.

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2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

Economy green and If you could find an example that had arrows rather than a crest even better.

 

Gibbo.

Gibbo,

Know you of such a beast?:mocking_mini::diablo_mini:

 

Martyn.

 

 

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Just now, Signaller69 said:

Gibbo,

Know you of such a beast?:mocking_mini::diablo_mini:

 

Martyn.

 

 

Hi Martyn,

 

I'm not aware, but I though it might be worth a look as there were some green 31's with arrows, and I have 24 021 in blue with a crest. Quite a few blue with small warning panel 25's also had crests instead of arrows.

 

There were also various AC electrics with variations of electric blue with white cab roofs and BR Blue with a mixture of red, blue and black buffer beams, small and full yellow ends, and crests or arrows between 1967-1972 approximately.

 

If you find one of "specialist" websites you could trawl through I suppose.

 

Gibbo.

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On 25/08/2020 at 16:19, Signaller69 said:

Another one of those vexed livery questions, the "right" shade of BR coach maroon....

20200825_154533.jpg.816a58a63f1cc9d08f2b2de730ff4074.jpg

20200825_154507.jpg.7a403cf23ccb2caaaad6b1d665d50128.jpg

This is Holts HDRE04, which looks ok to me, particularly "sunny day" photos of the prototype. It is slightly lighter than Railmatch Maroon and probably Bachmann's shade (the only vehicle I have to hand as reference is the Railmatch colour, but that is rather heavily weathered so perhaps an unfair comparison).

 

But then photos show variation in shades, and in any case it will mostly run with blue/grey stock.

 

Undecided whether to try a shade darker colour or leave as is?

I'm sure I've posted this picture before - yes it is in preservation - but illustrates how "authentic" BR maroon is a moving feast, dependent on weathering, lighting, film and processing etc.

 

John

IMG_1418web.jpg

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8 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Martyn,

 

I'm not aware, but I though it might be worth a look as there were some green 31's with arrows, and I have 24 021 in blue with a crest. Quite a few blue with small warning panel 25's also had crests instead of arrows.

 

There were also various AC electrics with variations of electric blue with white cab roofs and BR Blue with a mixture of red, blue and black buffer beams, small and full yellow ends, and crests or arrows between 1967-1972 approximately.

 

If you find one of "specialist" websites you could trawl through I suppose.

 

Gibbo.

 

2 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

RE: logos & colors, I was always confused at my Dapol Hymek in green/sye having arrows.   I didn't think the two crossed.

 

Yes there were a lot of variations around the 1965-75 timescale; https://www.facebook.com/groups/574645826326981/?ref=share is my usual go-to for info on this period and has proved most useful. Gibbo, if evidence of a 46 in green FYE with double arrows came up, I would be mighty tempted! :good_mini:

 

8 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

I'm sure I've posted this picture before - yes it is in preservation - but illustrates how "authentic" BR maroon is a moving feast, dependent on weathering, lighting, film and processing etc.

 

John

IMG_1418web.jpg

John, 

I fully agree re different maroon shades, particularly in the modern era. I have seen a mid 60s B&W photo though, in an old B. Barton book of a train approaching Glasgow where, in a train of all maroon Mk.1 stock, 1 coach totally stands out as being a much lighter shade relative to the others.

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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Martyn

 

There is a new book on loco liveries in the green to blue transition, "BR: From Green to Blue". It is by Russel Saxton and will be as accurate as he can get it. I am waiting for my copy to arrive.

Hi Clive,

Yes I spotted that on the FB group, thanks for reminding me, must order a copy!:good_mini:

 

Martyn.

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Just now, Signaller69 said:

Hi Clive,

Yes I spotted that on the FB group, thanks for reminding me, must order a copy!:good_mini:

 

Martyn.

That is where I became aware of it. When my copy arrives I will do a review and post it on RMweb and the DEMU forum.

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7 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

RE: logos & colors, I was always confused at my Dapol Hymek in green/sye having arrows.   I didn't think the two crossed.

I can't speak specifically for Hymeks, but there are a lot of apparent "inconsistencies" at the time of the green to blue transition.

 

Certainly one green Deltic received the arows of indecision - possibly D9010.

 

A number of green BTH 1's did as well, D8234 the Liverpool St. pilot being one example that confuses people. It was kept immaculate, but like the rest of the class none made it into blue, however in an era when many photos were in B&W folk assume it is blue because of the condition and the arrows.

 

John.

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On 25/08/2020 at 16:19, Signaller69 said:

Another one of those vexed livery questions, the "right" shade of BR coach maroon....

20200825_154533.jpg.816a58a63f1cc9d08f2b2de730ff4074.jpg

20200825_154507.jpg.7a403cf23ccb2caaaad6b1d665d50128.jpg

This is Holts HDRE04, which looks ok to me, particularly "sunny day" photos of the prototype. It is slightly lighter than Railmatch Maroon and probably Bachmann's shade (the only vehicle I have to hand as reference is the Railmatch colour, but that is rather heavily weathered so perhaps an unfair comparison).

 

But then photos show variation in shades, and in any case it will mostly run with blue/grey stock.

 

Undecided whether to try a shade darker colour or leave as is?

There was a CK in the carriage shed at work being painted the other day. I took in an empty liquid poly bottle and acquired some of the paint from the guy doing the painting. I will give it a try on a triang cut and shut TSO when I get a chance. 

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