WANTED: Model Railway Enthusiasts for TV Opportunity

[F-UnitMad]

It is interesting that they are, at what is presumably an early stage, going for the mega-long stretch of track side of things. I do wonder about this, to better reflect the modelling habits of the nation a programme might better look at micro-layouts on a budget, in the kind of small space most of us deal with.The risk seems to be that a 'layout' of X-miles long along an abandoned railway / towpath tends to serve up a Greggs pasty of a modelling spectacle. If you want a signature show stopping 'bake' to show off the hobby, surely better to focus on small, perfectly formed layouts.

Quite.

I think they have utterly and totally missed the whole point of model railways with their premise of "longest model railway ever".

Yes we'd all like more space for our layouts, but layout-wise it's about creating as realistic a scene in miniature as we can.

This idea, & James May's attempts, are nothing to do with railway modelling, & IIRC James May himself rather decried layouts & openly prefers 'toy trains' - recall his hilarious encounters with pretentious Collectors and an Auction.

 

Anyway, for travelling over long real distances, surely we'd much prefer to do it on a real train..??!!??

[rue_d_etropal]

Looking at it from other direction,I think many(certainly the loudest in the room) tend to look at model railways with a very narrow view point. Not meaning specialist subjects, just the way it is perceived as purely modelling, purely creative, when it has an enormous social and community aspect. Maybe then, some prefer to lock themselves away in garden shed or loft and pretend the world has not changed.

Embracing new ideas(some not that new in reality) is important. Don't refuse something just because it is a different approach. Just maybe it might generate some interest in the hobby, which spills over into the traditional areas. The James May program failed for the railway modelling, because it assumed the products ere good enough. Had they used an old Hornby Dublo system(which I think held the record for longest continuous run train( 8F I think) then it might have had a chance. The other programs in the series worked well, and did what they intended. The Scalectrix one used groups of enthusiasts, where as the railway one failed to bring in clubs ho might have known more and been more prepared to try other ideas.

[Rods_of_Revolution]

I've never come across the concept of "my layout has more track than your layout", so why are they making the fundamental premise of the show how much track you can put end to end? It suggests the hobby is some sort of todger measuring contest, "phwoar, look at the length of that siding!" "Crickey, look at the girth of his track bed, it's 6 tracks in places!"

 

All the best,

 

Jack

[teaky]

Unless the producers and researchers have actually seen one then their idea of what a model railway is will be based on what they have seen in the press (general not modelling press that is).  I can't recall ever seeing a model railway in the press.  All that ever seems to feature are enormous train sets.  Obviously it depends on your personal definition of a model railway and it is for everyone to define for themselves.  The kind of things that feature in the press are fun but not what a lot of people on a model railway forum would aspire to I suspect.

 

I have held back from commenting on this thread because I couldn't see many positives in the programme idea and didn't think that moaning was worthwhile.  The 'longest track' idea has been done.  James May's programme was a bit of fun and that's it.  The programme makers ought to approach their nearest model railway club after abandoning their preconceived ideas.

 

I like some of the ideas suggested in earlier posts along the lines of module building challenges.  (It would be funny to see several modest sized modules produced over a week whilst Allan Downes makes a complete city!)

[rue_d_etropal]

Model railways do get into newspapers, normally reports on exhibitions. What do know about the local clubs is that they would cooperate. The Hattons angle is also interesting, but I can't ask around till I get home in a few weeks. Hattons do not sell much O gauge, but I do know some there who either model in O or are part of groups with O gauge.

[Joseph_Pestell]

This seems so typical of modern TV. Someone had success with an idea, so they have to copy it but better, bigger, or whatever.

 

I think it will rapidly fall down on cost. Just as single track (and allowing for doing it at trade prices), I reckon that the track alone is over £800k! That's fine if the idea sustains a whole series of programmes but this would be pretty dull as a series and only just about watchable as a 1 hour programme.

 

They would do far better to encourage a modular project and then get together in a large hall somewhere to assemble the whole thing. As a series of ,say 10 programmes, each programme could focus on a couple of modules leading up to the finale in the tenth programme of the series when all are put together.

[Hroth]

Why a model railway?

 

Although more recently familiar for dissecting large (dead) creatures on screen, Mark Evans previously produced a series of programmes about the restoration and construction of motorcycles, cars, light aircraft and helicopters. In the last two, inserts were included showing him learning to fly them.  James May has recently had broadcast several programmes involving the re-assembly of a lawnmower, telephone and electric guitar.

 

On a similar railway theme, perhaps we could have a team of enthusiasts, guided by experts, reassembling a steam locomotive.  Nothing large, say an industrial tank that a Heritage railway might have, currently surplus to requirements. The team members could also learn to drive a similar loco and compete in a full-sized shunting plank puzzle against the clock.

 

Just thinking.......

[Suzie]

They make Bake-Off and Sewing-Bee so they have the bones of a good idea - just not the one that has been pitched to us!

 

Use that format, but actually producing something at each stage that can be used together later on.

 

Watching PVA dry will probably be a bit boring so if everyone starts with a 16' run of Tim Horn baseboards...

 

Programme 1 - design the module. This should be very engaging with presenting the prototype source material and so on. Experts judge the merit of each design over a range of criteria.

 

Programme 2 - Hand build all the points and lay the plain track. Experts judge on appearance and does it meet specs and work!

 

Programme 3 - Make structures...

 

Programme 4 - Slap on some scenery.

 

Programme 5 - Build some stock.

 

Programme 6 - The experts set up all the modules and operate (with each contestant allocated a driving turn). Modules judged on operability, relative appearance and reliability.

 

That would get me watching.

[Steamport Southport]

Hroth, It's been done. Salvage Squad. It had Suggs from Madness in it. It wasn't a steam locomotive though, it was a narrow gauge diesel and some traction engines were also restored.

 

 

Back to this debacle. Liverpool to Goole? Crikey!

 

James May struggled with a few miles using hundreds of volunteers and then most of the track was apparently stolen or vandalised. This is going to be going through some of the most dodgy parts of the country (I live here). Good luck with that.

 

 

Jason

[Hroth]

I'd forgotten that one, and there was a Scrapheap Challenge "build a self-propelled rail vehicle" episode too.

 

Most things have been done before, in one form or another. Its just a question of finding a new spin on the subject!

[Suzie]

And, if Robot Wars can go on tour, I am sure that the Great British Railway Bake-Bee can go on tour too.

[Huw Griffiths]

Why a model railway?

 

Although more recently familiar for dissecting large (dead) creatures on screen, Mark Evans previously produced a series of programmes about the restoration and construction of motorcycles, cars, light aircraft and helicopters. In the last two, inserts were included showing him learning to fly them.  James May has recently had broadcast several programmes involving the re-assembly of a lawnmower, telephone and electric guitar.

 

On a similar railway theme, perhaps we could have a team of enthusiasts, guided by experts, reassembling a steam locomotive.  Nothing large, say an industrial tank that a Heritage railway might have, currently surplus to requirements. The team members could also learn to drive a similar loco and compete in a full-sized shunting plank puzzle against the clock.

 

Just thinking.......

I wonder what this could be called - "A Train is Born" - "A Layout is Born"?

 

OK - it's possible that another production company might have first call on a name like this - but it could be fun.

 

Mark Evans could also be a good choice of presenter. (Saying that, I wouldn't mind if he - and Joy Reidenberg - could also be commissioned to do further series of "Inside Nature's Giants".)

 

Whatever happens, it should be interesting to follow developments on this.

[bike2steam]

 If it was clockwork I'd say it's a wind-up.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

So much of the "factual" stuff on TV nowadays has to have some form of competition in it, plus a bit of attitude mixed in. Add a few "oddballs" or "characters" to liven things up, a presenter with a condescending style, some "personalities" and away you go with another "winning formula".

 

Not much of the mission to inform, educate and entertain left now.....

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Just had another thought.......

 

Why not call the programme "Mock the Modellers".

[rue_d_etropal]

I wonder if some in the hobby wanted to be treated seriously, well sometimes I do just want to show I am having fun, but then I am being taken serious having fun. Maybe it was because I was never a train spotter, never did many of the things that others consider a bid sad.

 

I have emailed one of the contacts listed, and will be getting in touch properly when I get back to UK.

 

Some of the programs this company have produced might be a bit controversial, and I am sure they could create something based on the commonly perceived view of railway modellers and enthusiasts, but then there is already a trainspotting TV program. Hopefully they want to do something more positive.

The TV series for Bake-off was originally intended as a light hearted charity TV special, but proved so successful, that it has versions in other countries, and the BBC might struggle to keep onto it. I would not want it to be competitive, although I can see some pushing the skill angle, but more about showing another side of the hobby. I suppose I am in a good position, being a southerner living up north, slap bang in the middle of the area they want to use, and have been involved in local clubs and exhibitions for over 30 years.

[Steph' H]

Speaking as someone who's other hobby (birdwatching) has been the victim of several awful documentary's over the years etc my advice now-a-days for things like this is run, run away very fast. Every one has been sold as "bringing the hobby into the mainstream", or "its going to be a serious film" then degenerated into a mocking and cringe worthy exercise that has ended up making those who are involved look very silly or just making the whole thing a joke, for the general public to laugh at and point at as to the sadness of the hobby. Not one has been a good portrayal of the hobby for a long, long time. One in the 70's wasn't bad but after that.....

 

I maybe cynical to the extreme but its a case of once bittern twice shy in birdwatching at the moment. The last time a film crew came to try to film anyone no-one would have much to do with them, they eventually got a bit done, mostly as it was a program about the birds and places not the birdwatching hobby side of things etc and people felt safer I think just talking about the birds and due to the hobby etc not being concentrated on.

[rue_d_etropal]

I think problems like the above arise when you don't actually get involved enough. Just having a TV crew coming round and filming is asking for trouble. They should have a script to follow, but people can get involved with writing that script. I happen to know some who are involved in script writing and model railways and I would want them to be involved. Just running away because it might go pear shaped is not going to help.

Any form of collecting, especially as it is perceived as being obsessive, will be seen by many as odd, but it tends to only be certain ones which get picked on,which is why train spotters and bird watchers get picked on. There are loads of people who are as obsessive about football, and collect all sorts of things connected, and can quote details of football matches going back years, but they are rarely portrayed as odd. Petrol heads seem to be thought as cool, not nerds. Then there is anything associated with computer games, and only the extreme are portrayed as odd, the typical nerd in fact.

Only way to change perceptions is to be involved, not just watching from sidelines , grumbling you are not taken seriously.

 

I think the plans for this program are at an early stage, given what I feel about email I got back. Certainly hope so, as I don't want it to be another standard view of railway modellers as sad train spotters.

[Shovelto]

I had a long chat with one of the researchers a week or so back. It was obvious from the conversation that they were trying to work up some form of solid(ish) idea to pitch to Channel 4 or similar. It was also obvious that they were at the very early stages and that the person I spoke with had little knowledge of model railways, real railways or the geography of the areas concerned.

The conversation I had covered, among other things, O vs G gauge, manufacturers (not heard of Piko) , sites and features along the proposed route (canal towpaths), how to sustain interest over 3 episodes, whether the presenter(s) would have any knowledge of the subject etc.

Apparently one of their researchers has cycled the route and identified a few issues relating to security, gradients at locks etc. They have also identified that cost of track could be an issue!

 

My gut feeling is that, without a great deal more thought, this idea will not be picked up and commissioned. But what do I know?

[Pacific231G]

I had a long chat with one of the researchers a week or so back. It was obvious from the conversation that they were trying to work up some form of solid(ish) idea to pitch to Channel 4 or similar. It was also obvious that they were at the very early stages and that the person I spoke with had little knowledge of model railways, real railways or the geography of the areas concerned.

The conversation I had covered, among other things, O vs G gauge, manufacturers (not heard of Piko) , sites and features along the proposed route (canal towpaths), how to sustain interest over 3 episodes, whether the presenter(s) would have any knowledge of the subject etc.

Apparently one of their researchers has cycled the route and identified a few issues relating to security, gradients at locks etc. They have also identified that cost of track could be an issue!

 

My gut feeling is that, without a great deal more thought, this idea will not be picked up and commissioned. But what do I know?

It does sound a bit less than half baked. If it ever does get commissioned I'd be very cautious about taking part in a programme like this as, even with the best will in the world, it's likely to give a very shallow view of the subject.

 

James May's programmes were a celebration of his favourite childhood toys and very consciously took the Airfix Kit, the train set, Meccano and Scalextric (I missed the Lego one)  to the absolute limit   They weren't about anyone except May's enthusiasm for those products and as I recall the Meccano bridge was designed and built by engineering students (who'd barely heard of Meccano)and not Meccano enthusiasts  while the Scalextric Brooklands circuit was set out by people from the local community.

 

IMHO the best programmes come out of the personal passion or interest someone has for a subject (usually the producer and/or the presenter) rather than from a production team desperately trying to come up with an "original" idea that a channel commisioner will go for. I think that's why the TimeShift on model railways did reflect the hobby sympathetically and in real depth and it's also why I believe that the BBC must remain a maker of its own programmes rather than simply a commissioner of them from production companies.

   

BTW When I was a kid I seriously wondered whether you could get something into orbit using a sufficiently large number of Nov. 5th firework rockets in stages but I then learnt a bit more physics and maths. I don't think it's possible !!!  

[rue_d_etropal]

I am about to contact them myself, now I am back in UK. It does sound like they are at a very early stage, but that does not matter. I have some ideas which I want to put to them.

 

The railway James May tried to build was doomed to failure. It should have worked in theory, and if it had had the same amount of research as was done for the other projects it might have worked. It was obviously meant to be the project that triumphed but it did not achieve what it set out to do. It showed how quality of models might have improved in looks, but not in good solid model enginering. It was a Hornby Dublo loco( I think an 8F) that had held the endurence record, and it needed to be something of that quality to succeed. Then of course the researchers were obviously smitten by the new Hornby, not appreciating the difference in build quality. A pity but with a bit of thinking this new project could work.

 

It should be noted that this production company have produced programs for various TV companies including the BBC. Bake-Off has been a very successful program. Check out the credits at end of many shows and you will find they are produced by an independent company. Even radio shows are produced by independent companies. One show on our local BBC station finishes just when I am going home from railway club in evening, and it states it is an independent production.

 

I did some seaching.I amsure a Hornby Dublo 8F was used in one endurance test, maybe in a Nuclear power station, but can't find anything. I did find out that a HD Cardiff Castle holds the Guinness Book world record of 153 miles non stop, so it could be possible, but has to use good quality motor like the HD one.

[Hroth]

Hornby Dublo mechanisms were well made.

 

Even as late as the early 70s The Guniess Book of Records published the HD 153 mile record, though I doubt it finds a place in the modern "book of records" as its not relevant to the record requirements of today!  We've also got to remember that the HD Cardiff Castle was fresh off the production line for the record attempt - now, even the youngest genuine HD loco would be pushing 50 years old; a Wrenn loco would be in the 40 yo bracket.  A bit elderly to aim for records and I wouldn't like to see a venerable HD loco thrashed so mercilessly!

 

On the other hand, I recently gave my 3-rail Silver Link and Duchess of Montrose a spin.  They're certainly mid-50s models and have not turned a wheel for at least 20 years but with a check for lint and debris in the mechanism, and an oiling all round they moved off without a complaint and gradually worked up to a creditable top speed, definitely not needing the Hand Of God that Tri-ang locos of a similar age require.

 

 

 

errors and corrections: Guniess?  No - I HAD NOT been partaking! And for Silver Link, read Silver KING. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The second time around with James May, he had the brothers who operate the Hamburg exhibit over, and things went a bit better. Funny that, people with real experience of long duration running can bring something to the party. (Incidental: surely some of the Hamburg layout stock will long ago have beaten any of the old endurance records in accrued running time? They will know what lasts among modern product designs, and how it has to be prepped for reliable endurance)

 

The UK tie ins to look at might be Aimrec if it has advanced far enough, or a major show with potentially large floor space to hand like Warley or Ally Pally (and doubtless others)? There's your possible model railway club and manufacturer and retailer promotion / involvement, secure indoor space on a good scale, expertise on hand, controlled public viewing access, and much more than just an occasional loco going past on a straight line for potential visitors to see.

[Suzie]

From my understanding scale has been set by manufacturer involvement.

[br2975]

Personally, I think the production company have "ideas above their station" and this project will "run out of steam" and end up "shunted into a siding" somewhere.

.

There's three hackneyed cliches they can use.