More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[57xx]

On 14/04/2019 at 16:35, micklner said:

Search on eBay for  Jewellers board for soldering 

 

Ones such  as this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jewellers-Heat-Proof-Soldering-Mat-Board-Sheet-Block-Jewellery-Making-TA11-/251984320207

[laurenceb]

I got one from MSE at a Nottingham exhibition some years ago  

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by laurenceb

[Compound2632]

Further progress on the Brighton Open A. I was puzzling how to fit the solebars – previous whitemetal wagons I’ve built have had the solebars cast in one piece with the sides. It’s obviously key to get them level and parallel to the sides and also the correct distance apart for the axleguard units. I decided to go for broke and just solder them to the headstocks, using an axleguard unit as a jig to keep them aligned. The solebar castings are a little bit over-length, so I filed them down at each end so they were a tight fit between the solebars – so they were just wedged in place as I soldered. I seem to have got away with this dodgy set-up:

 

 

With the wheels in place, each axleguard unit was adjusted by filing the tops of the spring shoes to get the axle parallel with the bottom of the headstock – easy to check by eye. The axleguard units were then soldered in place. Having made sure the bottom of the solebars and headstocks were all in the same plane – rubbing on a piece of fine grit paper – the axles came out parallel, so the wagon is wobble-free. All rather more by luck than judgement! Then the brake shoe was soldered in place – it’s designed for EM/P4 so a bit of discreet tweaking brought it closer into line for 00:

 

 

That’s all the solderable parts, bar the brake lever which seems to be too long… So there will now be a Pause for Research. There’s also a beam across the end pillars, not provided for in the kit but shown in the instruction sheet photo of a completed model. I might even add a floor.

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Compound2632
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[Mikkel]

Ah, I see. I was a bit puzzled by the first shot

 

A very attractive wagon, and a proper brakeshoe! None of that  complicated flimsy stuff they later came up with...

 

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Ah, I see. I was a bit puzzled by the first shot

 

 

Wheelbarrow line, the Brighton...

[Compound2632]

Next up, one of the Roxey Mouldings / Chatham Kits Stephenson Clarke dumb-buffered wagons.

 

 

This kit is also ex-Woodham Wagon Works, designed like the Brighton Open A by Eric Gates – 30 years ago. Somehow this didn’t go together as easily as the Brighton wagon – I spent much more time fiddling and filing to get a neat join at the corners, not always succeeding:

 

 

The instructions say the wagon is over-wide; with the filing I did to try to get a good clean fit at the corners, it’s come out at 30 mm wide, which is about right. The snag was that the back faces of the solebars were now too close together for the fold-up etched axleguards to fit, so more filing was needed. This kit does come with an etched floor which is about the right length but about 6 mm too wide, I’m in two minds about fitting it – I do need somewhere to mount the brake gear casting, as soldering it to the back of the solebar, while spot on for P4 / EM, won’t look right for 00.

 

Floorless, not flawless!

 

 

If a wagon is going to end up loaded and /or sheeted, does it need a floor?

 

Are those dumb buffers still too far apart?

Edited September 5, 2022 by Compound2632
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[Penlan]

19 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Are those dumb buffers still too far apart?

Len Tavender in 'Coal trade Wagons' book, gives a number of measurements.
1. 1840's >  5' 9" c/c of Dumb Buffers, each buffer being 7" wide.

2. 1850's > 5' 10" c/c with 11" wide buffer
3. 1865 > 6' 0" c/c with 9" wide buffer.
4. A wagon rescued and still alive somewhere, has an overall width of the dumb buffers of 6' 9.75"* with the width of the each dumb buffer being 12.25".
* In line with outside edge of Solebar. - Page 29 of Lavender's book.
I doubt if the above helps.
BTW, 'Coal Trade Wagons' is for rivet counters, but recommended if you really want to know all about the history of 'Coal Trade Wagons'.  Excellent drawings, masses of data.
 

[Compound2632]

Goes to show why the railway companies were eager to establish standards, through the Railway Clearing House specifications.

 

This Stephenson Clarke wagon dates from the 1880s, I believe. Standard sprung buffer centres were 5' 8.5" at least from the RCH 1887 specification; this dimension had certainly been standard for Midland and LNWR wagons since the late 1870s at least. It's a bit tricky to take dimensions from timber trucks, as these usually had thicker than standard solebars, but LNWR D12/D13 had 11" square buffers at 5' 11" centres and Midland D388/D389 12" wide x 11" high buffers at 5' 10" centres. 

[Compound2632]

The soldering block arrived this afternoon, so I also did a bit more on the Mousa etched wagon kits, making up one end of the 3-plank wagon:

 

 

Fiddly isn't the word. Ten components here! The end pillars have a fold-up pair if sides with an overlay. The one on the left isn't quite straight - I may revisit it when my fingers have recovered...

 

There is a small error in the design - all the catches for the drop-sides are left-handed. (The one on the right shows the problem - it's venting its frustration by getting bent out of place.) 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Compound2632
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[Compound2632]

I've now completed nearly all the brasswork on the CLC 3-plank dropside wagon - again just the brake gear to go:

 

 

Photographed in the evening, so light levels are not so good and the image isn't as sharp as it might be, which probably helps! Although this is much more fiddly than a plastic or whitemetal kit, it's actually gone together quite nicely in the end - better than I thought it was going to! When soldering the ends in place, it would have been useful to have had some M2 nuts and bolts to align the end with the buffer holes in the fold down tab that forms part of the floor / sides piece.

 

Mousa Models list this as a Great Central wagon, though many examples were built in Manchester Sheffield and Lincolnshire days. As I've said, mine will be an example built for the Cheshire Lines Committee. According to Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 1, these wagons were assigned to four diagrams D2 - D5, depending on which batch they were from. My reference photo is of and example built by the Gloucester RC&W Co. in 1996, CLC D5, but this batch had flitched solebars and hence not the crown plates and washer plates that the kit has; I'm making the assumption in the absence of evidence that at least some of the Ashburys, Cravens, and Gorton batches might be without flitch plates. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Compound2632
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[mike morley]

On 17/04/2019 at 15:59, Compound2632 said:

the back faces of the solebars were now too close together for the fold-up etched axleguards to fit

 

The Roxey/Chatham short-wheelbase ballast wagon suffers from exactly the same problem My problem was that I didnt realise that until I was past the point where I was able to do anything about it.

Edited April 20, 2019 by mike morley

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, mike morley said:

My problem was that I didnt realise that until I was past the point where I was able to do anything about it.

 

You'd fitted the floor, so couldn't get a file in?

[mike morley]

Yep!

 

[Compound2632]

On 16/04/2019 at 17:54, Compound2632 said:

So there will now be a Pause for Research. 

 

Research materials:

 

 

Now this is supposed to be a scratchbuilding and kitbuilding workbench (though there has been a bit of modifying and detailing RTR along the way) but it's not every day one sees a RTR model of a pre-grouping wagon announced with trumpet blast! (See also here - pre-production photos.) Thanks to these new additions to my library, I know that there were 110 covered goods wagons built to the diagram chosen by Rails in 1904-8 - just a little bit late for my c.1902/3 date. This diagram, Southern D1420, was 16'0" over headstocks. It's a little bit of a shame Rails didn't go for the more numerous 15'5" vehicles to D1422 and D1420, built between 1889 and 1902. But heck, I'm being really picky here - it's near enough a biscuit van...

 

For original condition, it looks like I'd need longer buffer housings, grease axleboxes, some rather unusual brake gear, and possibly 3'1" Mansell wheels - that last might be tricky. 

 

I'm still interested in Linny's laser-cut kits.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Compound2632
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[BlueLightning]

52 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm still interested in Linny's laser-cut kits.

 

Well Stephen, I hope you don't mind my gentle reminder of the place you need to be tomorrow! Starting on the body, and looking forward to seeing you there!

 

Gary

[Compound2632]

Now this is the antithesis of RTR:

 

 

... though it comes from a manufacturer whose resin-bodied kits come closer to RTR than any other pre-Grouping wagon kit I know of.

 

This is complete as Bill intended it; for CLC condition I have to add a couple of stout door-stops on each side (60 thou square plasticard). Buffer heads and couplings will go on after painting, to avoid clogging them up. 

 

The fold-up etched brake gear is exquisite and surprisingly not that frustrating to solder up - though I now see one of the brake safety loops has come adrift.

 

I've had a good go at the excess solder with a fibre brush - one sees brass kits assembled by the masters with not a trace of solder in sight. I'm a long way off that yet!

Edited September 5, 2022 by Compound2632
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[Regularity]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Now this is the antithesis of RTR:

No, it isn’t.

The antithesis of RTR would be scratch built, on an unusual prototype, in a rare scale.

 

A 4mm Scale kit is somewhere between the two.

 

[Worsdell forever]

37 minutes ago, Regularity said:

No, it isn’t.

The antithesis of RTR would be scratch built, on an unusual prototype, in a rare scale.

 

A 4mm Scale kit is somewhere between the two.

 

 

Where do those beloved unbuildable kits come?

[Regularity]

8 minutes ago, Worsdell forever said:

 

Where do those beloved unbuildable kits come?

Somewhere outside normal space-time, I think...

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Regularity said:

No, it isn’t.

The antithesis of RTR would be scratch built, on an unusual prototype, in a rare scale.

 

A 4mm Scale kit is somewhere between the two.

 

 

 

Fair point - and a splendid brake van. But as far as 4 mm scale kits go, there is a scale from "falls together" to "falls apart".

[Regularity]

Thanks, but it is showing signs of distortion, plus there are a couple of errors due to crack-handed marking out not noticed until far too late in the construction.

[Compound2632]

I don't seem to have done anything reportable recently - and with our club show last weekend, ExpoEM this weekend and RailEx next, May is not conducive to real progress!

 

While we're waiting, this just has to be shared - I came across it by way of a link on the LNWR Society's Facebook page. LNWR at Bushey in 1897. A couple of passenger trains - on a motley collection of 6-wheelers and NPCS, the other a very smart set of new 50 ft suburban carriages. Passengers of all ages and sizes. Low platform...

 

... but best of all, a whole mixed goods train, hauled by a Coal Engine and with a D16 10 ton brake van at the rear. The train is mostly made up of PO mineral wagons of various ages and conditions - many dumb-buffered - along with LNWR D2 2-plank and D1 1-plank merchandise wagons. But in the middle are four Midland D299 5-plank wagons! Laden with coal, presumably they've come via Rugby. 

 

I'm going to have fun analysing this train, wagon by wagon.

[Northroader]

That’s a terrific find! Played it several times drinking it all in. The trains and the people. Thanks for that.

p.s. Here’s a rarity I found yesterday without any of them wagons in it.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Northroader

[Spitfire2865]

57 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I don't seem to have done anything reportable recently - and with our club show last weekend, ExpoEM this weekend and RailEx next, May is not conducive to real progress!

 

While we're waiting, this just has to be shared - I came across it by way of a link on the LNWR Society's Facebook page. LNWR at Bushey in 1897. A couple of passenger trains - on a motley collection of 6-wheelers and NPCS, the other a very smart set of new 50 ft suburban carriages. Passengers of all ages and sizes. Low platform...

 

... but best of all, a whole mixed goods train, hauled by a Coal Engine and with a D16 10 ton brake van at the rear. The train is mostly made up of PO mineral wagons of various ages and conditions - many dumb-buffered - along with LNWR D2 2-plank and D1 1-plank merchandise wagons. But in the middle are four Midland D299 5-plank wagons! Laden with coal, presumably they've come via Rugby. 

 

I'm going to have fun analysing this train, wagon by wagon.

Shame it cant be played outside the UK.

And I dont have a VPN.

[Compound2632]

41 minutes ago, Northroader said:

 

p.s. Here’s a rarity I found yesterday without any of them wagons in it.

 

 

Post-Great War (i.e. post pooling) I would say.