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More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.


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On 16/05/2019 at 19:33, Northroader said:

That’s a terrific find! Played it several times drinking it all in. The trains and the people. Thanks for that.

p.s. Here’s a rarity I found yesterday without any of them wagons in it.

0454C02C-DF0D-4074-ADA0-24B611C46700.jpeg.507998e19364c2ee03501161b7a4efce.jpeg

I'm currently doing some research on how goods yards were paved and I'm intrigued by this photo. Does anyone have any ideas? Doesn't seem to be paved in any normal sense of the term and the wheels seem to have formed the flangway.

I'd be grateful for your ideas

Regards

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It isn’t a goods yard per se. I lifted it from the London Docks Museum site, so it’s along the quays in the Docks. Looking at it closely I think it’s quite smoothly paved with stone setts, but there’s a good even dressing of general filth, dirt and horse manure filling all the cracks. Probably the rails are tramway type with a groove in them, which would assist fitting the setts to make a level surface.

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Just had a look for another picture, here’s another taken from a higher angle of a similar area, but without railway lines, which gives a better idea of what I think it’s formed from.

7B5C1E0A-7D54-4769-BD9D-4464A32ED7A6.jpeg.ddf8df6fd4944789a4fadc3e51f2fc56.jpeg

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I’ve been studying closely the southbound goods train in the 1897 film of Bushey. Behind the coal engine are 36 wagons: twelve North Western, four Midland, and twenty private owners, of which twelve are dumb-buffered. As with the accident reports, one has to be cautious of drawing generalised conclusions but it provides a rare snapshot. Here’s my analysis – any improvements, especially suggestions as to the identity of the PO wagons, will be very welcome!

 

In estimating plank widths and wagon depths, I’ve been guided by the dimensions of LNWR D1 1-plank and D2 2-plank wagons, which both had 11” planks, and Midland D299 5-plank wagons, with 6⅞” planks. Lengths are much harder to estimate. Wagons are LNWR unless otherwise indicated:

  1. D2
  2. D2
  3. PO, unidentified.  5 planks, bottom and top 9”, remainder 6” – giving 3’0” depth. Curb rail 4½” deep, slightly inset from the headstock ends. This suggests the internal width is the same as the external with over solebars, say 6’1” + 2 x 4½” = 6’10”; with 3” planks, 7’4” outside, with 7’6” headstocks projecting 1” either side. Side and end doors – the hinge bar for the end door is visible. The side doors have side latches (of unusual design) on the top plank, suggesting the door is the full 5 planks high. external diagonal ironwork. A pair of hefty wooden door stops projecting about 6” – 7” below the solebar, in line with the door hinges. Brakes on other side. Round bottomed grease axleboxes. Livery: the ironwork does look darker than the woodwork. The indecipherable company name is on the 3rd and 4th planks up, just under the full height of the two planks. There’s a longish word on the bottom right of the bottom plank, approx. 5” letters – presumably a location. On the left hand end of the bottom plank, a blur that could be the wagon number, the full height of the plank.
  4. PO, unidentified. Dumb buffered. 5 planks, identical size and spacing to the previous wagon. Side and end door, side door latch detail not clear but probably full height door, no door bangers. Lines of bolts indicate internal diagonal ironwork running from the bottom at the corners to the top of the side knees – opposite to the usual arrangement. A 6” deep strengthening plate at the top of the corner plate. Brakes on other side, square axleboxes? A grimy wagon – no clues to livery or lettering.
  5. PO, unidentified.  Dumb buffered. 7 planks, 6 approx 6”, top plank deeper – about 9” (same as top plank on the previous two wagons). The curb rail is shallow, only going up to the level of the top of the solebar – 2” – 2½”, so the floor boards are held in place by the bottom plank – implying internal depth about 3’6½”. Ends are raised, with a tight quarter-circle at each end, but only approx. 3” extra height. Side doors 4 planks high, secured by latches on the 5th plank. It may be an optical illusion but the side seems to bulge outwards. Scotch brake, square axleboxes. Grimy, livery unclear, possibly 6” lettering on the top plank; 4” on middle and bottom planks.
  6. PO “LOFTHOUSE COLLIERY”. 5 broad planks – 4 planks 9”, top plank 12”? – giving 4’0” internal depth. Curb rail 4½”. External diagonal ironwork; headstocks slightly projecting beyond curb rail (see 3rd wagon). Side and end doors, hinge bar for end door above top plank level. Side door 4 planks high, secured by latches on top plank. Brakes other side, possibly Ellis axleboxes. Livery – could be grey with black ironwork, lettering white shaded black. LOFTHOUSE COLLIERY full height of top plank. On the bottom of the plank below,  under  the LIER of colliery, possibly LIMITED in 3” letters. On the second plank up: NO  ???  NEAR WAKEFIELD – 8” and 6” letters. At the left-hand end of the bottom plank, a blur that could be italic script Empty to … Actually I’ve inferred “WAKE” from knowledge of the colliery’s location. It was the site of a major flooding disaster in 1973 that led to new legislation and also triggered Arthur Scargill’s rise to prominence in the NUM. It was alongside the Great Northern’s West Yorkshire line at its junction with the GNR, NER, and L&YR Methley joint line, so how does it come to be in a LNWR train heading for London, rather than the GReat Northern route? Perhaps it’s heading for the South Western…
  7. PO “DRAKE & MOUNT” No. 6 dumb buffered 4-plank
  8. PO “DRAKE & MOUNT” No. 2 dumb buffered 4-plank. These two wagons are very similar, almost certainly from the same builder. Curb rail 4½”, 3 planks 9”, top plank 11”. Ends have a very gentle arc, probably five 9” planks, if the bottom plank sits on the headstock rather than the floorboards, a 4½” rise to the centre. Side door 3 planks high, with side catches. No door bangers. There is diagonal ironwork on the inside of the wagon – the bottom ends can be seen on the solebars, along with the line of bolts and the large nut near the top of the corner-plate. Brakes on the visible side of the wagon, V-hanger in the “Gloucester” style; the brake levers seem to be straight or at least only just angled at the very end. Square-bottomed axleboxes. Livery looks to be a light grey with black ironwork – though on a well-worn wagon this can be deceptive as the woodwork always tends to look lighter than the ironwork, in this case the white lettering looks relatively fresh. The company name DRAKE & MOUNT is in a top-left to bottom-right diagonal panel with a white border, about 3” wide. The panel is just under 18” on the vertical and does not overlap the corner plates. The lettering is about 9” high. On No. 6, the inside of the panel is body-colour and the lettering is shaded, probably black. On No. 2, the panel is a darker shade but the lettering is still shaded, so is the panel infill red, a dark grey, or some fancy colour? The wagon number prefixed by NO is on the top plank at the right, white shaded black. There’s some small lettering – about 3” white shaded black – on the right of the bottom plank, just tucked under the diagonal panel – LTD? or LOAD 10 TONS? White on the left hand end of the curb rail is either the load or the tare. Drake & Mount appear in the Lightmoor PO wagons index, ref. photo in Keith Turton’s Twelfth Collection; I’ve not seen this but there is an HMRS photo, showing a later Drake & Mount wagon in a similar but strangely mixed livery style, the left-hand end of which is similar to the style seen in the film. The index also reveals that Drake & Mount were a Bracknell firm – not so far from where I live – here’s a photo of their warehouse in Station Road, in derelict condition in 1970. Both wagons have a full load of coal, presumably en route to Bracknell by way of the N&SWJR from Willesden to the LSWR.
  9. D2. Loaded with something square-ish?
  10. PO, unidentified. Dumb buffered. After much peering , opting for 4 rather than 5 planks, approx. 3’ deep – so 9” planks – the plank joins aren’t very visible. 4½” curb rail. Raised ends – extra 6" height? – gentle curve ending about 9” in from the side. External diagonal ironwork. Side doors 3 planks high, secured by  catches on top plank. Solebar has no washer plates, suggesting it has a full-length iron flitch plate. Brakes other side. Square-bottomed axleboxes. Livery – dark; probably black with white lettering – plenty of it but undecipherable except the bottom left is the number. Loaded.
  11. PO, unidentified.  5-plank, slightly deeper than the previous wagon, not all planks the same width; possibly from top to bottom 8½” 6¾” 6¾” 8½” 8½” 4½” curb rail – 3’3” internal depth? Internal diagonal ironwork. Full heigh side doors with side latches on top plank and pair of wooden door-bangers on solebar. Brakes this side – the V iron behind the solebar is clearly visible; long brake lever. Round-bottomed axlexboxes. Livery unclear but company name in approx. 12” letters on top two planks.
  12. PO, unidentified. 6-plank, from top to bottom 11”, 4 x 7”, 9”, 4½” curb rail, giving 4’ internal depth. External diagonal ironwork, side door 5 planks high secured by catches on top plank. Headstocks protrude a tad. Brakes as previous wagon, also round-bottomed axleboxes. Livery – lettering possibly shaded? Plenty of it – 10”? on top plank and overlapping middle planks; full height of bottom plank. Heaped load.
  13. PO, unidentified.  5 planks, deeper than the adjacent MR D299 by about 5” – i.e. 3’3” internal depth. All planks wider than those of D299 but various widths – top to bottom 9”, 8”, 7”, 7”, 8”, 4½” curb rail? External diagonal ironwork. Side and end doors – end door hinge bar above level of top plank, side doors 4-planks high with catches on top plank. All the end door wagons have their end door at the London end… Brakes other side, round bottom axleboxes. Livery: woodwork lighter than ironwork; faint sign of white-shaded-black lettering on top plank. Loaded
  14. MR D299. Ellis 10A axleboxes, brakes other side. Loaded.
  15. MR D299. Ellis 10A axleboxes, brakes this side. Loaded.
  16. PO “PELSALL” dumb-buffered 4 wide plank. Curb rail 5”, planks 10½”. Raised ends – flat at centre 3’, curving down at sides, adding about 4”-5” to the height at ends. Arrangement of end planks not visible. Side door 3 planks high, secured by latches on the top plank. Pair of wooden door-bangers projecting 3” below solebar, aligned with door hinge straps. Rectangular cast plate on centre left of bottom plank, about 10” by 5” – owner’s plate? Possibly another plate on the centre-line of the solebar. Rectangular grease axleboxes with a projecting lid and lip on bottom. No visible load – if empty, so why running southbound? Livery: black, white lettering shaded red? PELSALL in 18” letters, top aligned with top of 3rd plank; number, 67X, in 6” letters on top plank above door. Pelshall Colliery was in the Cannock Chase coalfield; it was served by a mineral branch from Norton Junction on the LNWR’s South Staffordshire line and was also right next to the Wyrley & Essington Canal. The history of the Cannock Chase coalfield is complex but as far as I can work out, this is not the same pit as Pelsall Hall Colliery, the site of a major disaster in 1872.
  17. MR D299. Ellis 10A axleboxes, brakes other side. Loaded.
  18. MR D299. 8A axleboxes, brakes this side. Loaded. My first thought was that these Midland wagons had been attached at Rugby, coming off the Leicester line, but if so, how does the Pelsall wagon come to be sandwiched between them?
  19. PO “OWEN” dumb buffered 4 wide plank, similar to the Pelsall wagon but the second plank up is narrower. The solebar has a flitch plate but the ends of the internal diagonal ironwork can be seen, along with the bolt head at the top of the corner plate. An oval cast builder’s or owner’s plate in the middle of the solebar. Brakes other side, square-bottomed axleboxes. Livery: OWEN in 3’ high letters, shaded.
  20. PO “WALSALL WOOD”? – conjectural. 6-plank with coke rails, about 3’6” deep? – 7” planks; the bottom plank might be 8”. Side doors 4 planks high secured by catches on fifth plank. Internal diagonal ironwork. Brakes other side; round-bottomed axleboxes. Livery: ironwork and woodwork might be the same colour. Lettering shaded – all-over grey with white-shaded black lettering, or black with red shading? Company name in 9” and 11” letters on top two planks; on the third plank up, in 6” letters, on the left probably a place-name, on the right could be N.S.R – which puts the kybosh on the Walsall Wood reading! Number in 6” letters on right of bottom plank, probably LOAD 10 TONS on left-hand end of curb rail. On the door, a diamond-shaped logo, in white but infilled in possibly the shading colour? Loaded full to the top of the coke rails, so coke not coal.
  21. PO – same as previous? Construction very similar but a couple of inches deeper. Loaded.
  22. D1? – but the axleboxes look wrong. Sheeted; load seems to be all at the leading end
  23. D2 – empty? Scotch brake.
  24. D1, brake other side.
  25. D1, brake other side.
  26. D1, Scotch brake.
  27. D1, brake other side.
  28. D1 – a freshly painted one! Brake other side. What are these five D1s carrying?
  29. D4, sheeted. Scotch brake this side.
  30. PO “LILLESHALL” dumb-buffered 6-plank wagon with raised ends. Bottom plank wider – 11”? – then five 6¾” planks, gives an internal depth of about 3’9”, which looks about right compared to the D4. 4½” curb rail. The raised ends give another 6” or so – flat over the central 5’ or so, then curved down to the level of the sides. Internal diagonal ironwork – indicated by the nut near the top of the corner plate. Side door 4 planks high, secured by latches on the fifth plank. Hefty wooden doorstop on the centre-line, projecting 10” – 11” below the solebar, with bang plate in the form of a strap over the bottom two planks. Brake this side – long lever – and square-bottomed axleboxes? The Lilleshall Company has its own thread; the livery seen here seems consistent with the later red livery with white, unshaded lettering:  LILLESHALL about 15” high on the top three planks, on the second plank up, the number at the left-hand end and SHROPSHIRE at the right-hand end. The only moot point is whether the ironwork is body-colour or black.
  31. D1 or D2? Sheeted. It seems too high for a D1, too low for a D2. It could be a D1 with a load that raise the sheet uniformly at the sides but is humped in the middle. The sheet is tied down using the securing rings in the triangular flaps on the first seam, with the outer part of the sheet furled up, or possibly looped and tied back to the triangular flaps, forming pockets along the side. Scotch brake this side.
  32. PO, unidentified. Dumb-buffered.  4-plank with raised ends in a uniform arc. Planks ar about 9”, giving 3’ internal depth; 4½” curb rail. 3-plank side door, secured by rather chunky catches. Door stops on the solebar, aligned with the hinges – in this case they don’t project below the solebar. In place of the usual corner plates, there are seven iron straps connecting the side and end planks – an antique arrangement. Brake other side, round-bottomed axleboxes? Livery, frustratingly indistinct. The company name is written out on an arc spanning the top three planks, although there doesn’t appear to be any lettering directly above the door. On the top plank, NO at the left-hand end and the number itself at the right-hand end, 9” high. On the bottom plank, a word either side of the door, 6” high. On the door itself, a logo that looks like a dark coloured shield charged with a round or diamond-shaped device, and a lighter-coloured chief.  
  33. PO, the same but with brake this side. The pivot for the brake lever is unusually high up – not on the centre-line between the axles.
  34. PO, similar, but with conventional corner-plates and no door-stops. Brakes other side. The device on the door looks more like a wheel within a circle, than a shield. Possibly it’s the device that’s on the shield on the other two wagons, but the shield itself has been dispensed with. The livery of these three wagons seems distinctive enough that it ought to be possible to identify the company?
  35. PO, unidentified. Very similar to Nos. 32 and 33 but much less elaborate livery. Possibly 6” lettering on the 3rd plank up and 9” lettering on the bottom plank?
  36. PO, unidentified. 5-plank with arc ends. About the same depth as the dumb-buffered wagons, so 7” or 7¼” planks. 4½” curb rail. The raised ends may be flat across the middle, curved down at the sides, like the Lilleshall wagon. External diagonal ironwork. Full height side door with side latches. Door stops lined up with the hinges and projecting 3” – 4” below the solebar. There’s a projecting piece of timber on the curb rail between the hinges, rounded profile – to close the gap beteween the wagon floor and the door when the later is lowered by 90° for unloading. Brakes with long, straight lever – unusually no joggle to clear the axleboxes. The latter are round-bottomed. Livery: 12” white-shaded black lettering on the top two planks; second letter E – not much to go on! These last five wagons are fully loaded with largish lumps of coal.
  37. D16 10 ton brake van, verandah facing the direction of travel. Perennial question: are the verandah end windows glazed?

There are several very modellable wagons there – I’m especially taken with the Pelsall wagon. I should draw up some sketches – might be clearer than my typed screed and less tedious too!

Edited by Compound2632
PELSALL not PELSHALL
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That analysis really demonstrates there is so much more to PO wagons than Chas Roberts and Gloucester, grateful as I am for the kits based on these manufacturers' products.

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On 18/05/2019 at 20:41, Compound2632 said:

Looks like regular sets with larger slabs marking out cartage ways - or barrel-rolling paths? I think the other photo was just a bit too over-exposed.

I am sure it is barrel-paths, rolling them over random cobbles for long distances would not be good for them, and cobbles make them difficult to control etc.  I have never seen this feature outside areas laid specificly for heavy barrel traffic.

Tony

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9 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

I am sure it is barrel-paths, rolling them over random cobbles for long distances would not be good for them, and cobbles make them difficult to control etc.  I have never seen this feature outside areas laid specificly for heavy barrel traffic.

Tony

 And I'd suggested barrel-paths in jest! - Just goes to show. 

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I've been to a couple of top-notch exhibitions over the last couple of weekends - a uniformly outstanding quality of modelling, not a dud layout among them, several at the very pinnacle of the hobby. However, I very much fear that I have become hypersensitive on the subject of wagons, which has sometimes taken the edge off my enjoyment - my problem, not the exhibitors'! I'm afraid I have to list my sources of dissatisfaction, in roughly the order in which they nag at me:

  • 10 ft wheelbase PO mineral wagons - still to be seen...
  • Inauthentic PO liveries (especially non-mineral wagons) or authentic liveries applied to the wrong type of vehicle or completely out of period.
  • Too many special wagons / unusual loads. Ordinary opens and (with due attention to period) vans should overwhelmingly dominate the scene (along with PO mineral wagons).
  • Brake van of a different company to the engine at the head of the train.
  • Layouts set pre-Great War with a far too eclectic mix of companies represented - wagons of the local company or companies should be overwhelmingly dominant; foreigners should be rarities whose presence needs to be justified by a particular traffic - which generally means a D299 working through from the Midland!
  • Layouts set post-Great War and into the Grouping era almost entirely populated by wagons of the local company. Pooling means pooling!
  • Layouts with too elastic a time-frame. 1912 and 1922 look very different:

1812026726_1912fashionplate.jpg.a8175948c9d53b2d766143f4e0827834.jpg89842174_1922fashionplate.jpg.905f740bd62e4103a76e9992b5585913.jpg

  • Layouts set a year or two after a significant livery change but no wagons in the old livery and all those in the new livery beautifully weathered to look as if they've been in traffic for 5+ years.

I think I should stick to looking at post-nationalisation layouts, as I know rather less about BR standard wagons and freight trains.

Edited by Compound2632
Put an extra n in pinnacle. Images reinserted.
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6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:
  • Layouts set a year or two after a significant livery change but no wagons in the old livery and all those in the new livery beautifully weathered to look as if they've been in traffic for 5+ years.

 

Hum... Well, one has since appeared, but from elsewhere.

 

... or possibly just a coincidence that they'd picked the same number? Two more have appeared

 

Ah no, my first suspicion confirmed.

 

I really am nitpicking. I have never seen a finer layout than Sherton Abbas.

 

I'm reassured by Dave's choice of black rather than red below solebar level.

 

 

Edited by Compound2632
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On 20/05/2019 at 19:50, Compound2632 said:
  1. PO “DRAKE & MOUNT” No. 6 dumb buffered 4-plank
  2. PO “DRAKE & MOUNT” No. 2 dumb buffered 4-plank. [ ... ] Livery looks to be a light grey with black ironwork – though on a well-worn wagon this can be deceptive as the woodwork always tends to look lighter than the ironwork, in this case the white lettering looks relatively fresh. The company name DRAKE & MOUNT is in a top-left to bottom-right diagonal panel with a white border, about 3” wide. The panel is just under 18” on the vertical and does not overlap the corner plates. The lettering is about 9” high. On No. 6, the inside of the panel is body-colour and the lettering is shaded, probably black. On No. 2, the panel is a darker shade but the lettering is still shaded, so is the panel infill red, a dark grey, or some fancy colour? The wagon number prefixed by NO is on the top plank at the right, white shaded black. There’s some small lettering – about 3” white shaded black – on the right of the bottom plank, just tucked under the diagonal panel – LTD? or LOAD 10 TONS? White on the left hand end of the curb rail is either the load or the tare. Drake & Mount appear in the Lightmoor PO wagons index, ref. photo in Keith Turton’s Twelfth Collection; I’ve not seen this but there is an HMRS photo, showing a later Drake & Mount wagon in a similar but strangely mixed livery style, the left-hand end of which is similar to the style seen in the film. 

 

I've not had the opportunity to inspect a copy of Turton's Twelfth but I did see that POWSides do a Drake & Mount transfer set, wagon No. 33, their ID 0045. These are designed to fit the Slater's Gloucester 5-plank side-door wagon in 4 mm and 7 mm scales (refs. 4044/7044) so I suppose this is an approximation to the photo in Turton; this would be close enough to the estimated dimensions of these dumb-buffered wagons. POWSides show the body colour to be a medium grey with the diagonal panel infilled in pink! There are some differences in the layout of the additional lettering such as the position of the number; also BRACKNELL doesn't appear on the dumb-buffered wagons. It's possible that on No. 6, the panel, though it appears indistinguishable from the body colour, is in fact pink but on No. 2 it definitely looks darker. Is the pink part of the POWSides transfer or intended to be painted on first?

 

Only one way to find out, I suppose...

Edited by Compound2632
punctuation refined
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10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

................... Is the pink part of the POWSides transfer or intended to be painted on first?

 

Only one way to find out, I suppose...

Given the ref of 0045 this is a very early POWSide transfer.  I am 99% sure therefore it will be two transfers per side, one for the white and one for the black shading.  It will be up to you to align these accurately (actually not that difficult).  The 'Pink' background will be up to you to paint first, but as its edges are under the white border it again is not too difficult.

 

Tony

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Those two part POWsides transfers aren't as difficult as they appear at first glance; the one on the right here was done like that.  You just need patience and you can always touch them in with a fine paintbrush afterwards.  The only disappointment is the limited range of numbers they supply on the sheet. 

 

Ricketts-1.jpg

Edited by jwealleans
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12 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Given the ref of 0045 this is a very early POWSide transfer.  I am 99% sure therefore it will be two transfers per side, one for the white and one for the black shading.  It will be up to you to align these accurately (actually not that difficult).  The 'Pink' background will be up to you to paint first, but as its edges are under the white border it again is not too difficult.

 

Tony

 

That's good to know, since it means the stripe can be any colour I fancy!

 

Here's a little snippet from an article on the Bracknell Railway Society website, describing goods workings in 1909, so a dozen years after the Bushey film:

 

"The 1019 Brentford-Reading goods arrived next, at 1200. It called only at Staines and Ascot before Bracknell and after brief shunting it left at 1210. This train conveyed wagons which were brought to the L&SW from the Midland, North London and L&NW Railways, over the North and South Western Junction line from Brent and Willesden to Brentford Yard. There an engine sent from Nine Elms collected them, providing a link to Reading from the North."

 

 

Edited by Compound2632
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On ‎06‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 16:52, Compound2632 said:

 

Here's a little snippet from an article on the Bracknell Railway Society website, describing goods workings in 1909, so a dozen years after the Bushey film:

 

"The 1019 Brentford-Reading goods arrived next, at 1200. It called only at Staines and Ascot before Bracknell and after brief shunting it left at 1210. This train conveyed wagons which were brought to the L&SW from the Midland, North London and L&NW Railways, over the North and South Western Junction line from Brent and Willesden to Brentford Yard. There an engine sent from Nine Elms collected them, providing a link to Reading from the North."

 

 

 

Thanks for posting the link Stephen. In there it said, 'The 1019 fast goods from Brentford to Reading stopped at Earley “when required” to “put out skins"'. Forgive my ignorance but does anyone know what the skins were? And even if they were simply animal skins, for example, why might they have been putting them out in Earley?

 

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These skins were a mystery to the author of the BRS article. 

 

I've been having a look through Earley Days (Earley Local History Group, 2000); as far as I can see, the only thing in the vicinity of Earley station around that time that might be considered an "industry" was Sol Joel's racecourse and stud farm. Did either of those require an occasional supply of skins of some sort? 

 

Both Earley Days and the Wikipedia article on Earley state that the racecourse covered the area now occupied by Hillside Road, Sutcliffe Avenue, and Mill Lane, with the grandstand on the opposite side of Hillside Road to Loddon Primary School. The racecourse pre-dated Sol Joel's purchase of the Maiden Erlegh estate in 1903 and closed during the Great War, with the grandstand going to Newbury racecourse. However, there's no sign of a racecourse or a structure that might be a grandstand on the 1898 OS 25" map; there are some small structures on the western side of plot 469 on the 1910 map that might be grandstands, though they look rather small. 

 

Sol Joel's stud farm does have a notable railway connection: the names Bachelor's Button and Pommern may be familiar.

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The excellent University of Leicester Special Collections pages have a link to a good number of Kelly's Trade Directories

 

The 1915 Berkshire Directory lists a "T. E. Allnutt wholesale grocer & military contractor" at Earley Station. He's not mentioned in the 1899 directory, & by 1920 the business is listed as "Allnat Limited, wholesale grocers", still via the station.

 

Perhaps the skins were destined for military use?

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Thank you for that link. I don't know how consistent the directories were but I note that Allnatt does not appear in the 1914 Directory of Reading, which does have entries for Earley, though there are two other Allnatt grocers, one in Sonning and one in Sindlesham. In the 1915 index there is still an Allnatt in Sonning but the Sindlesham one has gone. This makes me wonder if a relation has taken over the Sindlesham business and and branched into "military contractor" as an addition occasioned by the war. Unfortunately if that is the case it doesn't help with the 1909 goods service but I'm more than happy to be proved wrong. Once again thanks for the link.

 

Gordon

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I'm still stumped by the skins, though I note there is an Allnatt Avenue in Winnersh.

 

In yet further distraction from actually modelling any wagons, I've been following up my occasional interest in M&GN goods stock, following on from a side-discussion on the Castle Aching thread re. a grounded van body at West Runton (the intended object of interest was the hotel). I found a reasonably-priced second-hand copy of N.J.L. Digby, A Guide to the Midland & Gt Northern Joint Railway (Ian Allan, 1993), as recommended by Edwardian. This has a three-page appendix that roughly doubles my meagre knowledge of the subject. I'm struggling to reconcile the information given by Digby with that given in P. Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 2 (Wild Swan, 2007).

 

I commented before on the very small number of wagons reported by Tatlow - 338 at the end of 1922, excluding service stock, of which 111 are listed from a Nov 1919 census - 449 in total. Tatlow's table of service stock gives 261 vehicles, with a blank for low-sided goods wagons - could one infer 77 of these? - there were 62 divided between the parent companies in 1928. Digby states that at the formation of the M&GN on 1 July 1893, there were over 700 wagons (including service stock and brakes); this tallies with the numbering info given by Tatlow, the highest being the single bolster wagons Nos. 726-735. Digby gives some diagrams which are annotated with the quantity of each type; Tatlow says the diagram book was first produced in Nov 1919 - contemporary with the census figures he quotes - but there are some discrepancies between the census and diagram book. It is possible Digby's diagrams are from a later edition: the diagram gives the quantity of 10 ton brake vans (of a design introduced in 1898) at 29, the total number of brakes at 1928, but the census only gives 16. The difference would be made up by the 13 Eastern & Midlands brake vans (Digby), three of which were rebuilt as 15 ton brakes in 1924-1926, the remainder, it would seem, were either replaced by the 1898 design after 1919, or possibly just lumped under the same diagram.

 

Now, I'm interested in M&GN wagons that I can plausibly introduce into the Birmingham area c. 1902/3, by way of the Midland, of course.

 

The most promising vehicles seem to be the box wagons - covered goods wagons with slatted ventilation panels in the upper bodyside, per the grounded body in the West Runton photograph. These were built in 1879-1883, i.e.  by one of the constituents of the Eastern & Midlands, though Digby doesn't say which. Digby describes them as the most-travelled M&GN vehicles; with 3'7.5" diameter Mansell wheels and with automatic brake or through-piped (dual), they were evidently intended for perishable traffic by passenger train. In the context of the M&GN, that means fruit (ref. Castle Aching, passim) - cf this label. This traffic seems to have originated mostly from the region to the west of Kings Lynn - before the Eastern &Midlands amalgamation this was the Bourne and Lynn Joint, formerly Midlands & Eastern (all very confusing), worked by the Midland and the Great Northern - so presumably not having any stock of its own? Anyway, Tatlow and Digby and the diagram are in agreement that there were 45 of these vehicles, numbered 506-550; Digby is clear that this was the number inherited from the Eastern & Midlands in 1893 and Tatlow is clear that that many were divided between the LNER and LMS in 1928. So that grounded body at West Runton  presents problem... Apart from that, the diagram and the photo of No. 550 in Digby (and also in Midland Style), together with the West Runton photo (for the end framing) look to be enough to build a reasonable model in an appropriate livery for my period.

 

The cattle wagons, 136 in number in 1883, down by one by 1919 (despite the diagram) are another possibility - the photo in Tatlow shows one at a Great Western location; the clerestory carriage behind it looks to be in post-1923 chocolate and cream. When were cattle wagons pooled, if at all? These were built in 1882-3, so just pre-date the Eastern & Midlands - are they originally Lynn & Fakenham? The diagram and photo give enough info for a model, though cattle wagons aren't really my thing.

 

Potatoes were conveyed from Norfolk to the Midland goods station at Camp Hill, Birmingham, at least in LMS days - as this ticket shows. The reference to sheets implies an open wagon. This is where Digby is really helpful - he provides a diagram of the 15'6" 4-plank wagons dating from at least Eastern & Midland days, along with a photo of one in E&M livery, supplementing the photo I've known for ages from Midland Style (also in Tatlow). There were 61 of these according to the diagram; 49 according to the 1919 census, so probably a good few more at my date - maybe around half the 416 open wagons in 1893. 

 

Any of these would need to be scratch-built; even for the open I don't see a suitable kit to bash.

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52 minutes ago, Northroader said:

I would have thought a M&GN box van suitable for passenger trains would also be carrying fish?

Via Leicester, I guess.

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4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Digby describes them as the most-travelled M&GN vehicles; with 3'7.5" diameter Mansell wheels and with automatic brake or through-piped (dual), they were evidently intended for perishable traffic by passenger train. In the context of the M&GN, that means fruit (

 

..or flowers or leaf vegetables or horticultural products or beer barrels or anything that need some ventilation. Railway companies, especially unprofitable ones, didn't build stock that could stand idle for most of the year.

Edited by billbedford
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