More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

In this topic, we had mulled over the mysterious putting out of skins at Earley:

 

[Chrisbr]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The sheeted wagon looks like another 4-plank wagon with sheet rail - so perhaps that was quite a common modification in the early 20th century.

Having done some research on 4 plank opens in the GWR wagon registers at York, from a sample of just over 500 built around the turn of the last century, just less than 10% never had sheet rails, a third had them fitted by the end of 1910 and nearly all the remainder were fitted by end of 1920. So yes, a common modification it would appear

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Chrisbr said:

Having done some research on 4 plank opens in the GWR wagon registers at York, from a sample of just over 500 built around the turn of the last century, just less than 10% never had sheet rails, a third had them fitted by the end of 1910 and nearly all the remainder were fitted by end of 1920. So yes, a common modification it would appear

 

Noting that 62882 was from a rather earlier batch, Lot 83, is it reasonable to extrapolate from your turn-of-the-century batch (which Lots?) to the whole 24,200 built 1887-1902? From my c. 1902-ish standpoint, when did they start to be fitted? (The Bath photo is clearly no earlier than c. 1905.)

[Chrisbr]

Sample is Lots 254, 296, 355 and 374. Not really started to be fitted until 1904, so not much use to you I'm afraid....

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Chrisbr said:

Sample is Lots 254, 296, 355 and 374. Not really started to be fitted until 1904, so not much use to you I'm afraid....

 

... on the whole I'm glad of that as they're fiddly things to model correctly - bad enough on the Coopercraft O4 5-plank opens, where the trapezoidal end plates are molded with the wagon ends, so without some fiddling about (which I'm working myself up to try) one can only realistically model the sheet bar in the vertical position.

[Miss Prism]

I think the sheet supporter was introduced in 1902.

 

Why is the Bath goods shed pic no earlier than c 1905?

 

 

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Why is the Bath goods shed pic no earlier than c 1905?

 

 

Prevalence of large G W.

[Miss Prism]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Prevalence of large G W.

 

Yes.

 

[2996 Victor]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

... on the whole I'm glad of that as they're fiddly things to model correctly - bad enough on the Coopercraft O4 5-plank opens, where the trapezoidal end plates are molded with the wagon ends, so without some fiddling about (which I'm working myself up to try) one can only realistically model the sheet bar in the vertical position.

 

Hi,

 

the sheet support "bits" are separate mouldings in the Parkside O11/O15 kit. But of course that would leave you with a wagon that's of no use to you, although the channel underframe parts are good and could be used for a semi scratch build.....

 

All the best,

 

Mark

[Compound2632]

On 05/02/2020 at 11:02, 2996 Victor said:

the sheet support "bits" are separate mouldings in the Parkside O11/O15 kit. But of course that would leave you with a wagon that's of no use to you, although the channel underframe parts are good and could be used for a semi scratch build.....

 

True, for 1902/3 I've no call for O11s or O15s at all; sheet bars are only relevant in so far as O5 construction started in 1901. However, my elasticity is being tested by a further batch of gift wagons* from the same generous club member as the provender wagon:

 

 

A second Coopercraft provender wagon, an Ian Kirk / Colin Ashby covered goods wagon - I believe this is a V7 Mink C? - a Ratio O8 Open C, an ABS 4-plank wagon, and a Coopercraft O4 Open A. I'll need to borrow Atkins again but I suspect the Mink C and Open C are at earliest late Edwardian? The donor models 1950s/60s WR these days so is weeding out stock too early for that period.

 

*Never look a gift wagon in the brake gear.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Miss Prism]

V7 started 1906.

O8 started 1907.

 

[Mikkel]

I hesitate to interrupt, but this somehow belongs here:

 

 

Poplar Dock 1898. Getty Images, embedding permitted.

[Compound2632]

1898? Twenty years later, I'd say - the variety of stock suggests post-pooling. The LNWR D88 covered goods wagon, built from 1908, isn't wearing diamonds - after 1910 I think. The ex-SER open is sporting post-1912 SECR lettering. The little and large NER covered goods wagons are in a "late" style of lettering too, as far as I can make out. The real clincher is the Midland open behind the lamp-post, which has its number painted below the M - no earlier than 1917.

 

In fact this is a Derby official, DY 1795, taken in September 1922, one of a group of which some views were originally taken in 1898 but replaced in the official collection by more up-to-date photographs, hence, presumably, the error in the Getty caption.

 

Nevertheless lots of interesting detail. Sheets or tarpaulins used for road vehicles were different not only in size but in lettering to those for wagons - MIDLAND RAILWAY in block lettering. There's a rare front-on view with tarpaulin flaps branded M R Co - a much earlier style. Note the stone or concrete blocks propped up against the base of the lamp post to protect it from the wheels of passing vehicles.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Compound2632

[Mikkel]

A compelling analysis Stephen, remind me to always be on your side in a courtroom.

 

I do like the old-world charm  of the SECR round-ended wagons. 

 

31 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Note the stone or concrete blocks propped up against the base of the lamp post to protect it from the wheels of passing vehicles.

 

Oh, I thought it was just lousy Midland engineering 

[Craigw]

10 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

Hi,

 

the sheet support "bits" are separate mouldings in the Parkside O11/O15 kit. But of course that would leave you with a wagon that's of no use to you, although the channel underframe parts are good and could be used for a semi scratch build.....

 

All the best,

 

Mark

 

I don't know if Peco will, but Parkside supplied me with spare sprues of the sheet support. Southwark Bridge Models produced an etch of GWR wagon brakegear and detail parts which included the sheet support assembly. I am not sure if Roxey have released that again but it may be worth checking.  The Coopercraft O4 with sheet support is dreadful. I purchased the post 1925 version and will fit the SBM sheet support to that. Building two at the moment as it happens.

 

Craig W

[richbrummitt]

3 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

V7 started 1906.

 

 

If you can make the doors recessed as sliding ones then the V7 might pass for a V3. I've thought about trying to the same with NGS kit but can't recall now why I haven't. Maybe time or maybe because it's more complicated than I just made out.

[Compound2632]

On 05/02/2020 at 21:54, Craigw said:

 

The Coopercraft O4 with sheet support is dreadful.

 

I've somehow ended up with too many of those so have to deal with them somehow! Putting a sheet on is one solution. I'm also thinking of mass-producing earthenware pipes:

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Regularity]

That’s a nice shot. Where is it?

[Penlan]

I may have mentioned it sometime past,  there's 82 pages to check and it's to early in the morning to go through them all,  but, why not 'tree bark' as a load - This is Bucknell, on the LNWR Central Wales Line.  Sorry not a MR wagon though.
Date is after 1909, in another view there's a LNWR Dia 33 Van with LNWR lettering, plus diamonds.
"Don't mention H&S, Pike" 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Penlan

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Regularity said:

That’s a nice shot. Where is it?

 

Aldridge, on the Water Orton - Walsall line, junction for the Walsall Wood / Brownhills branch. We're looking west, the engine on the left is just coming off the Brownhills branch. 

[2996 Victor]

9 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

I don't know if Peco will, but Parkside supplied me with spare sprues of the sheet support. Southwark Bridge Models produced an etch of GWR wagon brakegear and detail parts which included the sheet support assembly. I am not sure if Roxey have released that again but it may be worth checking.  The Coopercraft O4 with sheet support is dreadful. I purchased the post 1925 version and will fit the SBM sheet support to that. Building two at the moment as it happens.

 

Craig W

 

That's exactly what I'm doing with mine - using the CC O4 RCH style i.e. no sheet support and using the Parkside O11/O15 kit sheet support bits. But I'm then building the Parkside kit as BR-era so after the sheet support had been removed.

 

The Southwark Bridge detail set would be a good option if it's available.

 

I wouldn't call the CC O4 Open A dreadful - it's just the sheet support bits being moulded with the ends, otherwise it's as nice a kit as their others.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[MikeOxon]

2 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

.... I wouldn't call the CC O4 Open A dreadful - it's just the sheet support bits being moulded with the ends, otherwise it's as nice a kit as their others.

I remember when the Cooper Craft range was first introduced - they were heralded as a breakthrough in accuracy.

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

I remember when the Cooper Craft range was first introduced - they were heralded as a breakthrough in accuracy.

Ditto Mainline.

 

How times change!

[cliff park]

I'm assuming the tree bark is for the tannin, which of course is used in the treatment of leather. This could tie in with the wagons of skins. Leather processing....boots and shoes.... ? 

[Penlan]

4 minutes ago, cliff park said:

I'm assuming the tree bark is for the tannin, which of course is used in the treatment of leather. This could tie in with the wagons of skins. Leather processing....boots and shoes.... ? 

Correct, there was a lot of trade in bark from the Radnor Forest area in the late Victorian and Edwardian era.