More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

With regard to the use of cast plates, if my may echo @Miss Prism's comment, it's always been my understanding that their use was not all that widespread, and that signwritten wagons would have been in the vast majority.

 

 

Maybe not widespread if one looks at, say, all wagons built 1880-1905 but, the impression grows on me, localised to a certain range of lot numbers. So the Devonport 1903 photo has a third of 4-plank wagons with plates, whereas the Reading c. 1905 photo has a much lower proportion. The Aldridge photo has 100% (one wagon).

[Penlan]

For those with Facebook access,
Don't know if this has been posted here, but  

Oh, it's appeared here, even better.
 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Penlan

[Compound2632]

I've seen plenty of Stephen Arrandale's colourisations on the LNWR Society Facebook group - he mostly does LNWR or ex-LNWR subjects - they are the best I've seen in the genre.

[Jammy2305]

2 hours ago, Penlan said:

For those with Facebook access,
Don't know if this has been posted here, but  

Oh, it's appeared here, even better.
 

 

 

MR, GER, NBR and even H&BR stock all in one photo - Lovely!

[Compound2632]

On 24/02/2020 at 21:38, jamesC37LG said:

 

MR, GER, NBR and even H&BR stock all in one photo - Lovely!

 

Yes, I think this is post-Great War, so pooling is resulting in such a range of stock. In this June 1898 view, the wharf is crammed with D299s, the only foreigner in sight being a S&DJR D299 clone:

 

 

NRM DY 1024, released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum.

 

It is Avon Wharf, not Avon Street Wharf, being on the banks of the River Avon.

 

Can't let this go past without reminding everyone of @Tricky's masterpiece:

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Compound2632]

I wandered lonely as a cloud

That floats on high o'er smog and grime,

When all at once I saw a crowd,

A host, of Midland D299;

Beside th'Avon, beneath the cranes,

Marshalled and shunted into trains.

 

Continuous as the lamps that shine

And twinkle on the railway,

They stretched in never-ending line

Along the margin of a bay:

Ten thousand saw I at a glance,

Turning their wheels in creaking dance.

[Tricky]

18 hours ago, Penlan said:

For those with Facebook access,
Don't know if this has been posted here, but  

Oh, it's appeared here, even better.
 

 

Yes, I was alerted to this by a friend. It’s now my laptop screen background. Superb. I see he plumped for slightly different livery on the lighters than me! 

[Tricky]

14 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I wandered lonely as a cloud

That floats on high o'er smog and grime,

When all at once I saw a crowd,

A host, of Midland D299;

Beside th'Avon, beneath the cranes,

Marshalled and shunted into trains.

 

Continuous as the lamps that shine

And twinkle on the railway,

They stretched in never-ending line

Along the margin of a bay:

Ten thousand saw I at a glance,

Turning their wheels in creaking dance.

Marvellous! But which button to press...like, craftsmanship, funny?!

[Compound2632]

Back on Great Western plates for a moment, there are some very nicely-done ones here:

 

Are we to take it the the single Lot 374 of diagram O5 4-plank opens with DC1 brakes, coming between the late lots of standard 4-plank opens and the O4 5-plank opens, were indisputably all given cast plates? 

 

Now, are there any photographs at all of the V5 wood minks, built 1902-4 and hence contemporary with the O4s, in original livery, which I would presume to be pre-large G W?

[Miss Prism]

I cannot recall seeing a pic of a V5, or a V2 or V4 for that matter, in pre-1904 5" lettering. (Which is rather odd, given their numbers and how modern and therefore photogenic they would be to the GWR.)
 

 

[Western Star]

On 25/02/2020 at 17:54, Compound2632 said:

Are we to take it that the single Lot 374 of diagram O5 4-plank opens with DC1 brakes, coming between the late lots of standard 4-plank opens and the O4 5-plank opens, were indisputably all given cast plates?

Chris Brown has researched the GWR wagon registers for a large number of 4-plank wagons built circa 1900-1904 and he has covered Lot 374.  The registers show the brake arrangements of a wagon as built (possibly subsequent alteration), there are three different annotations used for this Lot, as:-

 

* "double brake" or "lever, double"  or "lever" which appears to be two brake blocks and a single handbrake lever;

* "new lever" - which we think is probably DC1;

* "right hand new lever" - which is DC1X on the basis of the evidence of the photographs posted recently by Dave Stone (Wenlock's Blog).

 

Lot 374 for 123 wagons was built April 1902 to July 1902.  Chris has summarised the brake details from the register entries as :-  62 Lever (50%), 23 New lever (19%) and 38 Right Hand New lever (31%).  What is not clear to us at this time is just which wagons of Lot 374 were given cast plates - or if the fitting of plates was restricted to wagons with the same arrangement of brake gear.

 

Inspection of the registers and tabulation of the information was done by Chris - my contribution was restricted to asking questions, providing Chocolate cake and drinking tea.

 

regards, Graham

Edited April 15, 2020 by Western Star

[Compound2632]

So now I'm struggling, since Atkins records Lot 374 as 200 vehicles. My naive understanding was that this was the only Lot built with the DC1 brake, the previous 24,200 4-plank wagons built up to Lots 370 and 392 having conventional single-sided lever brakes. The idea that only some of Lot 374 were built with DC1 raises the spectre that there may have been a similar mix of brakes in these other contemporary Lots.

 

This is the tall V4 all over again - a Coopercraft kit for an apparently typical wagon turns out to be only correct for a miniscule number of vehicles - 22 in that case, 23 in the case of these Opens. Aaargh. Fortunately one can ignore this for the opens and build them as well-attested examples of earlier Lots with conventional brakes.

 

On the other hand, where does this leave O4? Is there a similar mish-mash of brake types?

 

Also, please could I be reminded of a source for etched components for the DC1 swan-necked lever and ratchet? I think I have been told but can't find it.

[Chrisbr]

Graham.

We know 2 wagons of this lot had plates - 10793, recorded as New lever and photgraphed as DC1 and 10995 recorded as Right Hand New Lever and photographed as DC1X. Given they were built within 3 weeks of each other, it doesn't seem unreasonable that the other 85 wagons built under this lot in the same timeframe also carried plates.....

 

Chris

[Chrisbr]

Stephen,

 

You're correct, I believe the lot contains more than the 123 I've found so far.... I mislead Graham earlier.

 

Chris

 

[2996 Victor]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Also, please could I be reminded of a source for etched components for the DC1 swan-necked lever and ratchet? I think I have been told but can't find it.

 

The Bill Bedford DC1 etch has the swan-necked lever, ratchet and drop link.

 

The Mike Clarke Masokits Masterbits Dean Churchward Mk.1 set was IMO the definitive etched DC1 brake gear, but he seems to have discontinued it in his current catalogue (which is accessible via the Scalefour Society website: Masokits Catalogue).

 

Incidentally, Mike also used to do cast plates for both the V5 and W1/W5, also now discontinued, unfortunately.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[mike morley]

2 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

The Bill Bedford DC1 etch has the swan-necked lever, ratchet and drop link.

 

Are they still available?  Eileen's Emporium lists the 7mm version, but that is all.

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, mike morley said:

 

Are they still available?  Eileen's Emporium lists the 7mm version, but that is all.

 

Not sure, to be honest - I bought a fret from Eileen's a couple of months ago so just assumed they were still available! Never assume - it makes etc, etc!

Edited February 26, 2020 by 2996 Victor

[Penrhos1920]

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

So now I'm struggling, since Atkins records Lot 374 as 200 vehicles. My naive understanding was that this was the only Lot built with the DC1 brake, the previous 24,200 4-plank wagons built up to Lots 370 and 392 having conventional single-sided lever brakes. The idea that only some of Lot 374 were built with DC1 raises the spectre that there may have been a similar mix of brakes in these other contemporary Lots.

 

This is the tall V4 all over again - a Coopercraft kit for an apparently typical wagon turns out to be only correct for a miniscule number of vehicles - 22 in that case, 23 in the case of these Opens. Aaargh. Fortunately one can ignore this for the opens and build them as well-attested examples of earlier Lots with conventional brakes.

 

On the other hand, where does this leave O4? Is there a similar mish-mash of brake types?

 

Also, please could I be reminded of a source for etched components for the DC1 swan-necked lever and ratchet? I think I have been told but can't find it.

 

There’s the etched chassis by Morgan for DC1 & DC1X: https://www.scalefour.org/members/stores/shops.php

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, mike morley said:

 

Are they still available?  Eileen's Emporium lists the 7mm version, but that is all.

 

4 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

Not sure, to be honest - I bought a fret from Eileen's a couple of months ago so just assumed they were still available! Never assume - it makes etc, etc!

 

Nothing lost by asking.

 

16 minutes ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

There’s the etched chassis by Morgan for DC1 & DC1X: https://www.scalefour.org/members/stores/shops.php

 

A whole new etched brass underframe would of course be the Rolls Royce approach but runs somewhat counter to my pseudo-finescale ethos and wallet.

 

But at least I can copy the shape in 20 thou plasticard!

[57xx]

11 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

There’s the etched chassis by Morgan for DC1 & DC1X: https://www.scalefour.org/members/stores/shops.php

 

I presume that as that page is in the Members section, it's not for use by non-members?

[Craigw]

The attached photo shows my two Coopercraft derived 4 plank wagons, built using the Morgan Design lever underframe. The only parts of the Coopercraft kit I actually use are the sides and ends. Fortunately a friend found out that Mr Coopecraft was selling sprues at exhibitions and obtained 12 wagons worth for me. I also have another 6 complete kits so I have quite a few more to build. One of them might end up with DC1 as well as another DC1 cross corner.  So much to do!

 

I have to fix up a spot on the side sill too

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

@Craigw, by your early 20s period, had the grease axleboxes with which the pre c. 1897-9 lots were originally equipped completely given way to oil? (I think I see two designs of oil box here.) I note the two different types and position of door spring and bang plates - as these 19th century wagons got older, there was much more variety. Is my c. 1902 period too uniform and dull?

[Craigw]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

@Craigw, by your early 20s period, had the grease axleboxes with which the pre c. 1897-9 lots were originally equipped completely given way to oil? (I think I see two designs of oil box here.) I note the two different types and position of door spring and bang plates - as these 19th century wagons got older, there was much more variety. Is my c. 1902 period too uniform and dull?

 

 

The axleboxes are actually two different brands and I think they are meant to be the same. One is ABS or David Geen casting - carefully extricated from the cast w-iron while the other is from Dart Castings. I had not actually noticed before. Looking through photos I found a bit of variation in door bang spring positions so I like doing that as well. There will be more to follow though I am currently building two x O4 5 plank wagons.

 

The early 1900s has a lot of variety but I like the mix of 16 and 25" lettering on goods wagons and the lake livery. In addition, I prefer the appearance of locos in the early 1920s. Plus, it is not an era that attracts much interest... I like to be a bit of a rebel

 

[Penrhos1920]

1 hour ago, 57xx said:

 

I presume that as that page is in the Members section, it's not for use by non-members?

 

Ah yes.  Morgan Design kits used to be available directly from Morgan until his death.  But now it appears that the society have made them members only, or at shows.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Penrhos1920 said:

But now it appears that the society have made them members only, or at shows.

 

Perfectly reasonable to provide such incentives to join the society. There has to be a balance struck between public good and long-term survival. (I'm not a member but if I was modelling in P4 - or EM - I would view joining as a sensible move.)