More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Penlan]

Oooops, messed that up and I couldn't get back to posting a simple reply....
Compound2632, I'm sure somewhere you must have mentioned how you've done your couplings..
What dia. wire are you using for the links, please, they look 'proper' compared to some of the spaghetti links I've seen about recently. 
I am currently completing 16 PO wagons and the coupling are proving a pain......  Something for which the time involved seems to be inversely proportional to what they add to the final vision - a long train trundling through the layout.  
Fortunatly I've done the country scenics on a couple of baseboards over the last 2 - 3 days, far quicker and satisfying than working on the couplings 

[Rowsley17D]

Hope @Compound2632 does mind me stepping in, but the couplings appear to be the old Exactoscale draw hooks and their links. No longer available, unless the new  folks who do the P4 track stuff bring them out again. I've a few hooks left and a number of links.

 

I stand corrected see Stephen's reply below.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Rowsley17D

[Compound2632]

I find the look of 3-link couplings on a train in motion very satisfying and well worth the effort. It certainly beats having a great lump of material projecting below headstock level, especially on pre-Grouping wagons that are light and airy down below.

 

The couplings I use are from Slaters, their item 4151. The links are pre-formed. The fiddly bit is slipping the links into each other and onto the hook, then closing up the links neatly - a pair of flat nosed pliers in each hand. They come with coil springs, so the other bit of fun is slipping one on behind the headstock then bending over the tabs at the end of the hook into a T-shape before the spring pings away.

 

 

Here's some I made up earlier:

 

 

I use Carr's metal black for brass on them:

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Compound2632
Images re-inserted

[John-Miles]

If you have sprung couplings how do you avoid the phenomenon of trains yo-yo ing as the coupliings stretch and contract. Many years ago I used to use Smith's couplings with springs etc and I found, particularly at exhibitions when running long trains, the progress of the train would be distinctly odd as the couplings stretched and contracted. I resorted to super glue and the problem went away.

[Western Star]

On 28/01/2020 at 19:08, Trains&armour said:

I came across this postcard on Ebay...

 

 

This is a really interesting photo because of the number of pre-group wagons and pre-group liveries.  I note that you found the postcard on E-bay - do you own the auction item?

 

Are you able to provide a high resolution extract for the GW wagon on the left hand side?  I think that this wagon may have had cast iron number and identity plates when built - zooming on the images in your post are tantalising without being definitive.

 

thank you, Graham

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Western Star said:

This is a really interesting photo because of the number of pre-group wagons and pre-group liveries.  I note that you found the postcard on E-bay - do you own the auction item?

 

Are you able to provide a high resolution extract for the GW wagon on the left hand side?  I think that this wagon may have had cast iron number and identity plates when built - zooming on the images in your post are tantalising without being definitive.

 

thank you, Graham

 

@Trains&armour...

[Compound2632]

On 14/04/2020 at 16:05, John-Miles said:

If you have sprung couplings how do you avoid the phenomenon of trains yo-yo ing as the coupliings stretch and contract. Many years ago I used to use Smith's couplings with springs etc and I found, particularly at exhibitions when running long trains, the progress of the train would be distinctly odd as the couplings stretched and contracted. I resorted to super glue and the problem went away.

 

I can't say I've been aware of the problem - I have run quite long trains of wagons with these couplings on my garage circuit and not noticed any oscillation. I think it may help that wagons are weighted to around 40 g - 50 g.

 

A little more progress on the D418 fruit & milk van: it now has Slaters axlebox / spring units cyano'd in place. It also has a lead floor, brining the mass up to 79 g and helping the ride height:

 

 

It's still lacking buffers. They should look like this. Here's the whitemetal casting from the kit compared to the Slaters headstock moulding, which incorporates the base of the buffer guide casting:

 

 

The whitemetal casting does seem to me to be too wide. In order to use the Slaters brass buffer guides here (and on the S&DJR van) I need to represent this base - round, with the four lugs for the bolt-holes. I've experimented with a method for mass-production. Taking some Evergreen 4 mm x 0.020" strip, I drilled out 2 mm diameter holes at 6 mm intervals on the centre line, then cut the strip into 6 mm pieces. I threaded a dozen or so of these onto an M2 bolt, lined them up and clamped them in place with a pair of nuts, so they were firmly held in line. I then used needle files to try to shape the resulting "block" to the correct profile - with partial success. I wasn't very happy with the lack of symmetry of the pieces I'd made, so will try again.

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Compound2632
Images re-inserted

[MR Chuffer]

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The amount of force that the brake can apply is determined by the moment about the brake shaft pivot that the guard or shunter can apply. The longer the lever, the greater the brake force.

Yes, it does seem counter-intuitive to want less brake force with the shorter lever.

 

Thanks for the wagon sheet info.

 

And pedants corner, should the numberplate be to the right as you always espouse...?

 

22 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, MR Chuffer said:

And pedants corner, should the numberplate be to the right as you always espouse...?

 

You are quite right - housepoint for spotting teacher's error. Full story here:

... though the wagon I posted is the second of the pair:

 

 

[MR Chuffer]

One small error does not detract from the enormity and excellence of your work, it achieves levels I can only dream of...

[Compound2632]

Counter-pedant:

 

enormity noun (pl. -ies) 1 [mass noun] (the enormity of) the great or extreme scale, seriousness, or extent of something perceived as bad or morally wrong: a thorough search disclosed the full enormity of the crime.

[The New Oxford Dictionary of English (J. Pearsall, ed., OUP, 1998).]

 

It's not that I've swallowed the dictionary, you understand, just that I'm married to it. From conjugal loyalty I ought to have quoted from her latest but I can't reproduce the IPA [Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary (10th edition, D.Lea and J. Bradbery, eds., OUP, 2020)]. In your defence, she does say that "enormity" is so frequently used in the sense you have used it that they're going to have to start admitting it to the dictionary. Language changes, old pedants can't keep up.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

I’m inclined to go with your wife’s viewpoint, but the poster obviously does mean well. Following your directions I’ve been looking at airnimals  thread. Now I’d describe that as “frightening”, in the sense that people can get much nearer perfection than any of my messes, and you’re trying much harder than me.

[MR Chuffer]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Counter-pedant

Touche! Mustn't start too early on the gin, all sense and reason - what little there was to start with - goes out of the window.

[Western Star]

On 18/03/2020 at 20:58, Compound2632 said:

Someone* spent some time going through about the first year of this thread last weekend, leaving his mark against numerous posts.

 

*He knows who he is...

Just passing GO... an enjoyable and informative journey so far.

[Trains&armour]

21 hours ago, Western Star said:

This is a really interesting photo because of the number of pre-group wagons and pre-group liveries.  I note that you found the postcard on E-bay - do you own the auction item?

 

Are you able to provide a high resolution extract for the GW wagon on the left hand side?  I think that this wagon may have had cast iron number and identity plates when built - zooming on the images in your post are tantalising without being definitive.

 

thank you, Graham

Sorry, no, this is the best resolution I can offer you. I didn't buy the postcard, but judging by other postcards I'd say the seller posted a good scan. The original probably doesn't show any more detail than this.  I could be wrong, but it's gone now...

[Compound2632]

Incremental progress report: I've managed to mass-produce buffer guide bases more-or-less to my satisfaction and fitted them with Slaters Midland carriage buffer guides to the D418. I'll have to unsolder the later from the S&DJR milk van to fit them to that too. Details and photo tomorrow.

[2996 Victor]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Incremental progress report: I've managed to mass-produce buffer guide bases more-or-less to my satisfaction and fitted them with Slaters Midland carriage buffer guides to the D418. I'll have to unsolder the later from the S&DJR milk van to fit them to that too. Details and photo tomorrow.

 

I was going to suggest making one as a pattern and casting some in resin.

I made some unusual axlebox/spring assemblies this way some years ago, using a whitemetal axlebox and microstrip to build up the spring.

The mould-making kit was a home/DIY affair, with cold curing rubber and resin supplied with catalysts.

It worked very well, and the results were excellent.

[Western Star]

It is not often that one can say "It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive" knowing that the journey is not yet over for whilst I have read all that there is to be read (of this topic to date) there is every reason to believe that appreciation of D299 wagons (and LNWR D1s and GWR 4-planks) is going to continue.

 

I started to re-read this topic just before the last Basingstoke MRS Show (early March) because I realised that there was much more in the way of content than the worshipping at the shrine of the humble mineral and merchandise wagons.  The range of prototype discussions and the broad base of modelling expertise - with the depth of information all so freely given by many contributors - has made the journey an enjoyment and an education.

 

Thank you all.

 

regards, Graham

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

I was going to suggest making one as a pattern and casting some in resin.

I made some unusual axlebox/spring assemblies this way some years ago, using a whitemetal axlebox and microstrip to build up the spring.

The mould-making kit was a home/DIY affair, with cold curing rubber and resin supplied with catalysts.

It worked very well, and the results were excellent.

 

I'm afraid I don't have the equipment for that. What I found with my first attempt, with rectangles of Evergreen strip threaded onto a bolt, was that I couldn't keep the stack tight enough, even with a locknut to try to keep the first nut in place. For my second attempt - which is as as far as I'm going for now as I only need eight bases - I welded a stack of five 15 mm pieces of the Evergreen strip together with D-limonene (recent purchase) then drilled holes out to 2 mm on the centre line 3 mm in from each end. This gave me a big enough piece to hold in a clamp while I shaped the outside ends. Cutting in half, I had about 3 mm to clamp on whilst shaping the other side. The resulting stacks of five pieces were separated with a sharp knife, mostly parting easily along the joins between the layers. I used the point of a pair of compasses to try to emboss the four bolt heads but with 0.020" material that wasn't brilliantly effective. Now that they're glued in place with the Slaters brass shanks, I'll try a bit of tidying up before painting and photography.

 

An alternative approach that occurred to me would be to use some rod or tube - Evergreen do some tube 4.0 mm OD / 2.5 mm ID that would be about right - and add the lugs as lengths of smaller tube, with a flat filed on one side - something around 0.75 mm diameter would be about right. One would then slice it up like a loaf of bread. The difficulty would be in getting the slices perpendicular to the axis. I would envisage cutting over-width, picking the best ones and then filing flat to thickness once glued to the headstock. 

 

Any other ingenious ideas?

Edited April 16, 2020 by Compound2632

[Penlan]

On 14/04/2020 at 15:44, Compound2632 said:

The couplings I use are from Slaters, their item 4151. The links are pre-formed. The fiddly bit is slipping the links into each other and onto the hook, then closing up the links neatly - a pair of flat nosed pliers in each hand. They come with coil springs, so the other bit of fun is slipping one on behind the headstock then bending over the tabs at the end of the hook into a T-shape before the spring pings away.

Many thanks, much appreciated.

[2996 Victor]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm afraid I don't have the equipment for that.

 

All I had was a half-litre tin of rubber with its catalyst, and the same quantity of resin with its catalyst! No equipment as such.

For the mould, I used the cut out bottom of a plastic container. I can't remember what the mould-release agent was, probably just vaseline.

Popped the pattern into the bottom of the container, mixed some rubber with catalyst, gently poured it over the pattern to a depth of about half an inch, and Robert's your Mother's Brother.

[Northroader]

When I tried this, I just dusted the mould with talcum powder for a release agent. One need is to get the mould nice and flat, I think the best way is to build a dam wall close round the pattern, Lego bricks is handy for this.

[Compound2632]

For too idle - or busy doing other things, like trawling through the Midland Railway Study Centre Carriage & Wagon database - hours of fun. I didn't get the paint out but did do the rainstrips on the roofs of the ballast and tariff brakes. It'll all come together soon!

[Compound2632]

Damp and rainy weather put paid to any idea of priming today. I usually use the rattle cans when I have the house to myself, with my rudimentary spray booth near the open back door. I then retreat to some other part of the house. Not a practicable proposition with everyone home, so it's fair weather priming only. Instead, I've taken the grey paint off some of those Coopercraft Great Western wagons - Precision Superstrip in the garage, with the rubber gloves on. The paint just fell off the O4, O5, and V5, all of which I'd been given or bought off Ebay recently. The O2 that I'd painted with Humbrol GWR freight stock grey as a teenager has required a bit more vigourous scrubbing with the old toothbrush I keep for the purpose but fortunately the only damage has been to the levers for the DC brake.

 

The semicircular piece of the sheet bar mechanism looks a bit more lifelike on the Coopercraft O2 than on the O4 - it at least stands proud of the end - although the trapezoidal plate is still moulded as part of the end. Is it an accurate representation?

[moore43grm]

Does this shot help ?