More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Regularity]

On 16/05/2020 at 13:25, Compound2632 said:

Ouch! Caught out there fair and plain. 

I was a bit brutal in my response, but you were criticising something about the development of which you were unaware and uninvolved, and continued so to do even after the manufacturer shared some information about the (private) development process with you.

I will come clean: I was the one involved, and and fully aware of the compromises that were made.

BTW I should make it clear that my comments only applied to the two Midland wagon bodies; 

Yeah, I got that. 

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I do however think that if something is offered for sale, especially at what is a premium price, it is reasonable to subject it to detailed, and where appropriate, critical review - a different standard applies, compared to the comments on might make on someone's handiwork made purely for their own enjoyment and posted for the possible interest of others.

In terms of the 4mm scale offering, you are welcome to discuss these matters with Knuckles of this parish.

For the original development, as Gavin has explained, we came up against some issues in the resolution of the image (3D printing is not yet the panacea for all requirements) but these are being produced as patterns for hand finishing, which will then be used to produce resin castings. As such, the "incorrect" protuberance can be used as a guide for further manual work to the body.

 

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There are of course always compromises due either to manufacturing limitations in the one case and individual skill or patience in the other, quite apart from the limitations of scale and chosen track and wheel standards.

Quite agree, but I wasn't the one picking fault over a small detail in a product that was designed with a specific purpose in mind and which was not a finished product, whilst simultaneously running models on track which is a gnat's chuff short of ⅛ (12.4% vs 12.5%) under scale...

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, Regularity said:

I will come clean: I was the one involved, and and fully aware of the compromises that were made.

 

I worked that out pretty quickly. It is most unfortunate that in trying to deflect my criticism from @Knuckles onto his unknown client I should turn out to have abused you, Simon, which I deeply regret as in general I admire your modelling and never fail to find your postings on this thread and elsewhere informative and entertaining. So I hope you will accept my apology for the offence given.

 

In the correspondence I had with Knuckles following my first comments, after these wagon bodies had first been mentioned on another thread, he explained the technological limitations behind some of the points I had mentioned. I would ask you please to observe that the point I specifically mentioned after @Lecorbusier had posted the link to them here was not one of these technology-limited issues but the raised boltheads on the insides of the Midland wagons:

 

On 15/05/2020 at 20:59, Compound2632 said:

the inside of the D299, when inspection of the drawing (along with photos) shows that these were countersunk with heads flush with the ironwork and hence practically invisible. 

 

This is not the first time I have made this observation re. models of these wagons; repetition may have made me hasty. I offer this photo of a D299, which clearly shows the side knees and the washer plates on the insides of the doors:

 

 

DY 1043, not from my usual source but from this article on the Peckwash Mill accident of 1 December 1900 (in which it is credited to the NRM). The wagon was evidently one of those carrying lime.

[Regularity]

Hi Stephen,

 

I wasn’t in any way offended. Actually, I was grateful to be reminded of the discussion, as “other things” have got in the way since commissioning the patterns!

 

Researching such a “common” wagon is an interesting exercise in trying to nail down all the information. Makes me wonder why people want to model such as the MR or GWR! Choose something obscure, and hope no one else knows anything about it!

[Regularity]

58 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I offer this photo of a D299, which clearly shows the side knees and the washer plates on the insides of the doors:

 

 

DY 1043, not from my usual source but from this article on the Peckwash Mill accident of 1 December 1900 (in which it is credited to the NRM). The wagon was evidently one of those carrying lime.

That would have been very useful 18 months ago!

 

[Compound2632]

On 17/05/2020 at 09:07, richbrummitt said:

On the left Eshin grey and on the right Dark reaper. The roof on this one is Corvus black, which seems about as black as grey can be without being black. The Dark reaper did not come out the colour I thought it would. 

 

Re. the Citadel paints, I gather these are acrylic. I think this would be a problem if I tried to overpaint the enamel I've already put on?

[Adam]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Re. the Citadel paints, I gather these are acrylic. I think this would be a problem if I tried to overpaint the enamel I've already put on?

 

Almost certainly not (certainly not by brush). Spraying can be a different matter, but, if you're quick...

 

Adam

[jwealleans]

I don't use acrylics extensively, but I haven't had an issue putting them over or under enamels by brush.  Just don't use methfix transfers.

[Compound2632]

Thanks both - I'd be brushing and, in this case, using the BGS Society rub-down transfers (once they're available again). I've never had any joy with Methfix. (See my OP!)

[Compound2632]

I bought some Parkside O11/O15 kits. I won't introduce the wagons themselves here as although the O11/O15 is a pre-grouping wagon, I'll be finishing them in early BR condition. However, I have been liberating the sheet rail components:

 

 

This O4 is the one destined for the sheeted timber load, so in a real cheat, I've only used the Parkside components at one end - the other end is just bent wire as it'll be hidden by the sheet. The rail is the Coopercraft original, bent up many years ago. It's been trimmed to length at this end and a flat filed on the last 3 mm or so to give a good bonding surface to the plastic part. Everything is fixed in place here - the rail has been glued to the top of the side to get it to sit flat and the trapezoidal plate welded to the end stanchion, just in case things come adrift. 

[Craigw]

On 23/05/2020 at 03:24, Compound2632 said:

I bought some Parkside O11/O15 kits. I won't introduce the wagons themselves here as although the O11/O15 is a pre-grouping wagon, I'll be finishing them in early BR condition. However, I have been liberating the sheet rail components:

 

 

This O4 is the one destined for the sheeted timber load, so in a real cheat, I've only used the Parkside components at one end - the other end is just bent wire as it'll be hidden by the sheet. The rail is the Coopercraft original, bent up many years ago. It's been trimmed to length at this end and a flat filed on the last 3 mm or so to give a good bonding surface to the plastic part. Everything is fixed in place here - the rail has been glued to the top of the side to get it to sit flat and the trapezoidal plate welded to the end stanchion, just in case things come adrift. 

 

 

As this is the approach I use, I may be a bit biased. I think that is a 1000% improvement on the Coopercraft original. It is just a shame one must resort to all sort of dodges to get hold of the tarp bar mechanism. 

 

Well done!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Craigw said:

As this is the approach I use, I may be a bit biased. I think that is a 1000% improvement on the Coopercraft original. It is just a shame one must resort to all sort of dodges to get hold of the tarp bar mechanism. 

 

@Craigw, I posted in haste on Friday (dinner was in the offing) so neglected to observe the niceties of academic debate; I of course owe this solution to your suggestion. This was by no means your first post on marrying the Parkside sheet rail parts to the Coopercraft O4, but is the post in which you showed us your O4 with the rail, and, of course, all the bells and whistles in the running gear department:

More, and different, to come in the Parkside sheet rail department...

[Craigw]

7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

@Craigw, I posted in haste on Friday (dinner was in the offing) so neglected to observe the niceties of academic debate; I of course owe this solution to your suggestion. This was by no means your first post on marrying the Parkside sheet rail parts to the Coopercraft O4, but is the post in which you showed us your O4 with the rail, and, of course, all the bells and whistles in the running gear department:

More, and different, to come in the Parkside sheet rail department...

 

I look forward to more variations on the theme.

 

Here are my 3 latest wagons. All from David Geen kits. I have a bit of a stash to work through.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Compound2632]

My scratchbuilt dumb-buffer wagon bodies were showing signs of warping, so I've added transverse braces, making a compartment for the lead weights. Holes to avoid enclosed volumes, of course:

 

 

Except that when I came to fit the top plate (that will support the dummy load), I realised I'd left no way of getting solvent into the joints between the bases and top plate, so extra holes were needed:

 

 

Doing the Pelsall wagon after the two Drake & Mount wagons, I was able to get that right first time.

 

One one of the Drak & Mount bodies, I had made the corner plates too short. This has been corrected. All these bodies are now in the paint shop, despite not having had the Archer rivet transfers applied to represent bolt heads. It occurred to me that as these need a gloss surface, they might as well go on after the transfers and as they're black, they won't need painting - especially handy for places where they are on grey woodwork rather than black ironwork.

 

[jwealleans]

You can use the Archers transfers straight onto bare plastic - the trick is to put a drop of solvent on afterwards and it seems to glue them (I assume it works on the backing sheet).  It's much easier to space them correctly on a white background.

[Mikkel]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

My scratchbuilt dumb-buffer wagon bodies were showing signs of warping, so I've added transverse braces, making a compartment for the lead weights. Holes to avoid enclosed volumes, of course:

 

 

 

That's a neat solution. An excellent place to hide things too!

 

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

You can use the Archers transfers straight onto bare plastic - the trick is to put a drop of solvent on afterwards and it seems to glue them (I assume it works on the backing sheet).  It's much easier to space them correctly on a white background.

 

Tip of the day for me, thanks Jonathan. I've been applying them later in the process like Stephen, but this would be much better. Can I ask what solvent you use for this?

[jwealleans]

MEK, plastic weld, Limonene... whatever i have open at the time.

[Dave Hunt]

May I ask if anyone knows whether Archer transfers are available in sizes suitable for 7mm models?

 

Dave

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

May I ask if anyone knows whether Archer transfers are available in sizes suitable for 7mm models?

 

Dave

 

They seem to be chiefly aimed at US modelling scales - so I've translated the scale dimension into a real size, then scaled that to 4 mm/ft, to choose something that seems about right. Trial and error - my first sheet was on the weedy size for 4 mm scale wagon nuts.

[Siberian Snooper]

I think the archer rivets are universal, but with the caveat that the larger or smaller the scale you're working in will determine the size of the rivet.

 

 

[Buhar]

7 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I think the archer rivets are universal, but with the caveat that the larger or smaller the scale you're working in will determine the size of the rivet.

 

 

Packs are listed both by size and, in many cases, scale. S scale is suggested elsewhere as being the most useful for 4mm. O gauge and G are in the range.

 

Alan 

[Compound2632]

The ones I thought were too weedy at 4 mm scale (though good for corner plates in certain cases) were AR88025, 7/8" head HO-Scale rivets; after some calculation I got AR88064, 5/8" head O-Scale streetcar rivets, which look a bit more the thing. They're no match for the exquisite [3D-printed resin?] nuts and bolts @airnimal uses at 7 mm scale:

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

13 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

May I ask if anyone knows whether Archer transfers are available in sizes suitable for 7mm models?

 

Dave

 

They do make their details in various scales, I’ve had some Louvres in O scale (American 1:48) These were stocked at DCC Supplies, which may help with shipping costs, etc.

https://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsOscale.html

[Compound2632]

I have purchased mine from DCC Supplies - navigating through all the sheets listed as out of stock. Still quite expensive per sheet, compared to, say, HMRS Pressfix transfers.

[Knuckles]

I use HMRS Pressfix as water slide Decals, technically wrong but works perfectly, prefer to spend longer positioning.  Am I the only one?

[Mikkel]

You mean for letters and lining? Yes me too. Gives a neater result than sticking with the instructions