More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[MikeOxon]

While researching in my modelling area of the Forest of Dean, I came across this old photo of an MR wagon transferring its load at Bullo Dock.  Is there enough detail for a Midland expert to identify the wagon type?

 

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

While researching in my modelling area of the Forest of Dean, I came across this old photo of an MR wagon transferring its load at Bullo Dock.  Is there enough detail for a Midland expert to identify the wagon type?

 

 

Undoubtedly D351 - the end-door version of D299. The only Midland 5-plank end-door wagon. The hinge bar can be seen at the RH end, sticking up above the line of the top plank. You can see that we're looking at the brake side, so the brake lever is at the end door end - anomalous compared to contemporary end-door PO wagons, which tend to have the brake lever at the fixed end - at least, Gloucester ones do. 

 

The photo is therefore no earlier than 1890.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Compound2632

[Axlebox]

 

I don't want to spoil the plot but the bombs (there are 2) are planted on the only Midland wagon on the train...

Did anyone else spot the last wagon turns from and LMS open to an LNE one overnight?

Also, look out for Charlie...hes one of us.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Axlebox

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Axlebox said:

I don't want to spoil the plot but the bombs (there are 2) are planted on the only Midland wagon on the train...

Did anyone else spot the last wagon turns from and LMS open to an LNE one overnight?

Also, look out for Charlie...hes one of us.

 

Give us a clue! (h/m/s?)

 

[Axlebox]

10 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Give us a clue! (h/m/s?)

 

...what, and miss all that lovely railway drama?            
(The last 5 minutes are the best for wagon hunters)

Edited July 11, 2020 by Axlebox

[Compound2632]

On 11/07/2020 at 15:25, Axlebox said:

...what, and miss all that lovely railway drama?            
(The last 5 minutes are the best for wagon hunters)

 

Ah, yes, 1:10:40-ish - either D302 or D633A, I wouldn't like to say which. There's always something blocking the view - if it isn't some inconsiderately-parked locomotive, it's an actress:

 

 

Mme. Sarah Bernhardt, in this case [NRM DY 610, released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum].

 

A little earlier, there's a seriously beat-up NE (LNER rather than pre-Grouping I think) wagon that has gained a couple of towel-rails - handy for handcuffing up the villain, if that's who he is.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Porcy Mane]

1 hour ago, Axlebox said:

(The last 5 minutes are the best for wagon hunters)

 

 Well blow me. One of me owld stomping grounds. I would have searched Charlie out if I'd have known.

 

Archie: The goods yard was opposite Prebends Mansions. The nearby King Geordie IV (probably converted into a Tesco Extra by now) was good spot to spend a Sarada afternoon session in.

 

The over bridge still exists.  https://goo.gl/maps/HYbKbk9cVD2NHZfS8

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Porcy Mane
To add more crap.

[Mikkel]

While looking for clues related to another thread, I came across the following 1920s court case which contains some interesting details on the Gloucester Carriage & Wagon company.

 

https://library.croneri.co.uk/cch_uk/btc/12-tc-720

 

Edit: Apparently this has to be accessed via Google for the full data to be viewable, otherwise you just get an overall case description. Stephen found it by searching Google for " gloucester railway carriage and wagon company ltd v cir".

 

Also useful for insomniacs 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Mikkel
To avoid confusion

[Compound2632]

More accessible account of the case here: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-manual/bim21025

 

[Mikkel]

Does that have all the detail on wagons hired out etc though? I can't seem to find anything but an overall description on that page.

[Compound2632]

32 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Does that have all the detail on wagons hired out etc though? I can't seem to find anything but an overall description on that page.

 

Aha. Your link appears to need a subscription to access the full content.

[MarshLane]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

While looking for clues related to another thread, I came across the following 1920s court case which contains some interesting details on the Gloucester Carriage & Wagon company.

 

https://library.croneri.co.uk/cch_uk/btc/12-tc-720

 

Also useful for insomniacs 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Aha. Your link appears to need a subscription to access the full content.

 

Mikkel,

Could you have found your link through a Google Search?  If so, it may be that there is free access if you go through Google, but not if you go directly...

 

Rich

 

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

 

 

Mikkel,

Could you have found your link through a Google Search?  If so, it may be that there is free access if you go through Google, but not if you go directly...

 

Rich

 

 

Bingo! Put

 

gloucester railway carriage and wagon company ltd v cir

 

into Google.

 

I've ripped the text out and put it in a Word document for private study.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

I've just been browsing "A Beginner's Guide to Pannier Tanks" - yet another example of the internet corrupting innocent minds - and as usual it's something in the background that's caught my attention - move that dratted engine! Photo of Buffalo saddle tank No. 1581 at Worcester in April 1932. In the background, part of a brake van is visible - not enough to identify the diagram. It has, I think, 16" G W initials. The feature of interest is the depot designation, Worcester, in the usual place but on a cast plate. I've not come across that before. Does this fitting date from the cast G.W.R / numberplate era?

[Mikkel]

Thanks gentlemen for clearing up the Google access thing.

 

Regarding depot plates on some brake vans (including your Worcester plate Stephen), see: http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieswagplate.html

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Mikkel

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Regarding depot plates on some brake vans (including your Worcester plate Stephen), see: http://www.gwr.org.uk/liverieswagplate.html

 

 

Ah. I remove myself to the back of the class for inattention. 

 

BTW I am aware of two photographs of O2s with 25" GW and cast number plates, as mentioned upthread:

29301 of Lot 496

78499 of Lot 522 (fitted, so in fact O10)

Both photos are from the 1920 Appendix, showing how to load pit props. I have them as screenshots of photos of the document from a Facebook group. Didn't I have these from you, @Mikkel?

 

Still trying to figure out if the also have cast plates on the ends.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Compound2632

[Annie]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I've just been browsing "A Beginner's Guide to Pannier Tanks" - yet another example of the internet corrupting innocent minds - and as usual it's something in the background that's caught my attention - move that dratted engine! Photo of Buffalo saddle tank No. 1581 at Worcester in April 1932. In the background, part of a brake van is visible - not enough to identify the diagram. It has, I think, 16" G W initials. The feature of interest is the depot designation, Worcester, in the usual place but on a cast plate. I've not come across that before. Does this fitting date from the cast G.W.R / numberplate era?

What a delightful page!  I just spent half an hour looking at all the wonderful pictures of the early saddle tanks.  

[Mikkel]

20 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Didn't I have these from you, @Mikkel?

 

I don't think so Stephen, although it's frightening to realize what we forget. A forum really reminds of you of that, doesn't it, when you come across your old posts about things that you didn't know you knew.

 

Thanks for the tip about the Facebook group, just signed up.

 

 

20 hours ago, Annie said:

What a delightful page!  I just spent half an hour looking at all the wonderful pictures of the early saddle tanks.  

 

Yes we owe Jim Champ (who also inhabits this parish) much for putting it all together.

 

Also recommended are his loco drawings website and associated book (I'm biased, as Jim has been very helpful over the years): https://www.devboats.co.uk/gwdrawings/

 

 

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Jim Champ [...] his [...] book 

 

Una obra magnífica, 100% práctica y funcional.

[Compound2632]

Things have been rather slow on the modelling front. I have at last done all the Archer resin "rivet" transfers on the Drake & Mount wagons:

 

 

The black nut & bolt on grey works well. Applying with Microset only and following up with Microsol, the carrier film does seem to have vanished completely. Note to self: Tare weights now before varnish!

 

From my screenshot from the film, it looks as if these wagons had plain square-bottomed grease axleboxes. The Gloucester 4S axleboxes of the Cambrian moulding could pass muster if trimmed down to be a little thinner, so I've been dithering between using the Cambrian parts or brass axleguards with whitemetal axlebox/spring castings. The thing I most dislike about the Cambrian mouldings is the rather poor representation of the springs. That, together with the reflection that I'd used the "long" Gloucester solebars to make these two wagons, so have enough "short" solebars together with the axleguard mouldings to make two more sprung-buffered wagons, tipped the balance. Unfortunately I didn't have any square-bottomed cast axlebox/spring sets. The best match I could find in the MJT range is a L&Y type; with the four bolts filed off they look as if they'll do.  

 

The brake levers appear to be dead straight without the usual bend towards the end; I think there are suitable etched levers in the 51L/Wizard range. Etched brake levers - thin end of the wedge; it'll be etched pushrods with daylight between them before we know where we are. That way P4 lies...

 

 There appears to be a global shortage of split-spoke wheels, which is becoming a problem. Leastways, Eileen's didn't have any and hadn't had any in their last delivery from Alan Gibson. My guess is that Colin has his hands full churning out plain spoke wheels for all those Parkside kits of big modern wagons in BR condition folk are building under lockdown:

 

 

Still needs vac pipes, transfers bedding in a bit more, matt varnish, and final weathering. Plus I'm undergoing an internal struggle over couplings. Can I bring myself to disfigure it with tension locks? But if it's to run on our club layout...

 

Where does the XP branding go?

Edited September 12, 2022 by Compound2632
Images re-inserted

[Darryl Tooley]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

Where does the XP branding go?

It doesn't.  In the late 1930s the minimum wheelbase of a wagon that could be conveyed by an express passenger train was increased from 9' to 10', and the 'XP' branding was introduced to denote those wagons still able to be so conveyed.

 

D

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said:

It doesn't. 

 

Good. The small waterslide transfers were rather fiddly!

[Nile]

43 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Where does the XP branding go?

What's this Stephen, are you going modern image?

[Mikkel]

Those Drake & Mount wagons are looking good.

 

Forgive me if you have already mentioned it, what is the setting of the club layout? 

 

 

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Forgive me if you have already mentioned it, what is the setting of the club layout? 

 

BR(W) 1950s, nebulous coastal location: Loddon Vale Model Railway Club's Erlegh Quay, a work in progress. Unfortunately the club website isn't responding for me this morning so I can't post a link but this photo was taken on it:

 

 

Please excuse the sunset glow - the hall has some wall-mounted radiant electric heaters!

Edited July 15, 2020 by Compound2632
Typo: radiant not radian.