More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Dave John]

"Show me a British express passenger engine of the late 1880s with similar or larger dimensions"

 

Er , well, um. I could show you a blue one with almost identical dimensions, but fitted with compressed air sanding, air brakes and a very fancy company crest. 

 

It went rather fast for its time too......

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Dave John said:

"Show me a British express passenger engine of the late 1880s with similar or larger dimensions"

 

Er , well, um. I could show you a blue one with almost identical dimensions, but fitted with compressed air sanding, air brakes and a very fancy company crest. 

 

It went rather fast for its time too......

 

That was designed by Edward Snowball, Neilson's chief draughtsman and, I gather, an old mate of S.W. Johnson's, though based to some degree on locomotives Neilson had just built to the design of another old friend (and former subordinate) of Johnson, Dugald Drummond. With the 476 Class, Drummond had hit on a winning formula that worked every time - through the 66 Class right down to the T9 - unless he varied the parameters too much. 

[Mikkel]

22 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

A nice lot there.

 

Yes, there's a whole little niche there for the modeller. Thanks for all the info Stephen, I had only got as far as identifying No. 213 and was quite proud of that!

 

18 hours ago, Ian Smith said:

To me, it looks like the diagonal strapping is on the inside - I think I can see a shadow of something that I can convince myself is strapping at both ends of the wagon.  

 

Thanks Ian - and yes, zooming in on it there is definitely  strapping.

 

18 hours ago, Ian Smith said:

I would suggest that the left-most wagon (33303) is iron bodied, I think there is evidence of the L angle running around the top of the sides and ends.

 

I agree, it looks ironbodied:

 

 

 

[Northroader]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

How a railway earns its money:

 

A really successful railway pays off its development and construction costs in the first three weeks. (And it was carrying people, not coal)

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Northroader said:

A really successful railway pays off its development and construction costs in the first three weeks. (And it was carrying people, not coal)

 

Go on, do tell!

[Northroader]

1951. 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Northroader said:

1951. 

 

 

Oh, right. 

 

 

[Northroader]

 

[richbrummitt]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

How a railway earns its money:

 

 

Washwood Heath Sidings, March 1905 [NRM DY 2799, released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum.]

That’s the kind of fiddle yard I could manage to create from what’s in my stock boxes; all wagons, no engines.

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

That’s the kind of fiddle yard I could manage to create from what’s in my stock boxes; all wagons, no engines.

 

At the Warley Show in 2019 I chatted with a chap who had spent his entire railway career at Washwood Heath - his job at the time we spoke being with HS2.

[trustytrev]

Hello,

        The LNWR  0-8-0 G2 goods engine was not double headed to pull the large coal trains of its day as far as I am aware.

I think it was amazing such machines where still running till the end of steam, be it with Belpair boilers.

Says a lot for the original chassis design.

trustytrev.

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, richbrummitt said:

That’s the kind of fiddle yard I could manage to create from what’s in my stock boxes; all wagons, no engines.

That's the kind of fiddle yard you never see on a model railway - one with empty sidings!

[MikeOxon]

and a modern example from the webcam at Plattling:

 

[Miss Prism]

But they still have proper goods trains in Germany.

 

[Compound2632]

I've taken two steps in a programme to restore modelling mojo:

• ordered some Humbrol No. 49 enamel matt varnish spray cans.
• moved the cat's litter tray from under my former modelling table to an alternative location (which took some clearing). I'm now getting the Indignant Look.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

City of culture and all that..

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

City of culture and all that..

 

 

That's one from the J.P Richards gallery on the NRM website. For the Keith Turton lowdown, see here. The ones in that photo, numbered in the 14xx range, are RCH 1923 wagons*; this is earlier but unfortunately not early enough for me. Also, it was a colliery served by the LNWR rather than the Midland. Good photos of wagons from the North Warwickshire coalfield for my c. 1902 period are elusive but here are some wagons from Wyken Colliery (also served by the LNWR) at Reading Vastern Road yard c. 1905.

 

*Done in 00 with varying degrees of conviction by Bachmann, Oxford, and Dapol.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Compound2632

[Andy Hayter]

27 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

 

*Done in 00 with varying degrees of conviction by Bachmann, Oxford, and Dapol.

That being the case, who should be found guilty and locked up?

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Andy Hayter said:

That being the case, who should be found guilty and locked up?

 

I know which one I find most reprehensible.

[A Murphy]

Me too! 

[Asterix2012]

14 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I know which one I find most reprehensible.

How would you rank them, from good to passable to bad?

[Steamport Southport]

55 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

How would you rank them, from good to passable to bad?

 

Just avoid the Dapol version. 

 

The Oxford version isn't bad. The only thing I can think of that might be a problem is the metal work on the tops of the planks which ISTR was a later addition to stop planks splitting.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/101904/oxford_rail_or76mw7005_7_plank_wagon_217_coventry_collieries_in_black/stockdetail.aspx

 

No idea whether the number is correct, but I have a sneaky feeling they have put an earlier livery and number on a later wagon. I'm pretty sure it should be 12T if it was built post 1923.

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

Bachmann have also done a version.

 

Also got the clips on the plank tops, but they have got the livery right for a post 1923 wagon.

 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/398556/bachmann_branchline_37_080l_po01_7_plank_end_door_wagon_1497_in_warwickshire_coal_co_ltd_coventry_collieries_blac/stockdetail.aspx

 

For those that like kits try the Parkside version and POWSides transfers.

 

https://www.powsides.co.uk/product.php/warwickshire_coal_co_coventry/?k=:::788147:0

 

 

Jason

Edited June 7, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

How would you rank them, from good to passable to bad?

 

Libellously. 

 

The prototype photos known to me are the view of a large batch of RHC 1923 wagons numbered in the 14xx series new in 1926 at the Saltley works of the Metropoliatan RC&W Co.: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/kt346.htm; and a single wagon hidden behind a pile of bricks at Cherry Orchard Brickworks, Kenilworth, allegedly c. 1938, certainly after 1928: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/kt346.htm. That single wagon appears also to be a RCH 1923 wagon, unfortunately its number is not visible. These are all 7-plank end-door wagons.

 

Jason got in during my lunch break! I agree entirely with the points he has made; Oxford have committed the usual howler of putting "10 Tons" on an RCH 1923 12 ton wagon, the number, 213, does suggest that they've worked from a photo of an earlier wagon. Bachmann have given theirs the Cc and star symbols - post-Grouping wagons not really being my thing I don't keep in my head exactly which means what or when they came in. The script instructions on the door look rather fussy on the Bachmann model - it looks as if too large a size has been used, so the lines nearly overlap.

 

As to the clips for the cap strip, as built the cap strip would be screwed to the top plank. As Jason says, this would tend to split the wood, especially with inferior quality wood such as might be used in wartime and later. The clips got round this, being secured by a bolt through the plank. But I don't think one would see this on a wagon in pre-war condition. Post war, after 5+ years in the pool, the condition of the paintwork would not be as represented!

 

Is there some distortion in the POWSides catalogue image? It doesn't look right; but they usually get it right. I have built several Parkside RCH 1923 kits and they're to my mind among the best plastic wagon kits around both for accuracy and satisfyingly crisp mouldings that go together easily and well - minimal fettling. The Bachmann wagon didn't used to have the cap strip clips - in that condition, it ran the Parkside kit a close second.

 

The Dapol wagon is of Mainline or Airfix heritage and has a 10 ft wheelbase steel underframe, so is irremediably unprototypical.

[A Murphy]

The Airfix/Dapol version is, I think I am correct in saying, roughly forty years old. I am sure Dapol still sell plenty, but if you want something that takes into account advances in manufacturing and standards of accuracy, Dapol may not be for you. Given the price point, I think the Oxford version is really good value for money.

 

Regards, Alastair M