More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[jamie92208]

Of course Clack's feature in the famous epitaph in Bromsgrove churchyard to the two engine men killed on the Lickey incline.  It includes the line, "My clacks have all gone cold".  I plan to have it read out at my funeral with a tot of any remaining single malts to be dispensed to anyone who can tell the bartender what a clack is.  I'll try and find my full copy of the epitaph  if anyone is interested.

 

Jamie

Edited January 24, 2022 by jamie92208

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Of course Clack's feature in the famous epitaph in Bramsgrove churchyard to the two engine men killed on the lickey incline. 

 

 

My engine now is cold and still

No water does my boiler fill

My coke affords its flame no more

My days of usefulness are o'er

My wheels deny their noted speed

No more my guiding hands they heed

My whistle too has lost its tone

Its shrill and thrilling sounds are gone

My valves are now thrown open wide

My flanges all refuse to guide

My clacks also, through once so strong

Refuse to aide the busy throng

No more I feel each urging breath

My steam is now condens'd in death

Life's railway's oe'r each station's past

In death I'm stopp'd and rest at last

Farewell dear friends and cease to weep

In Christ I'm safe in Him I sleep

[Crimson Rambler]

In the early Johnson classes (and Kirtley rebuilds) the clack valves were mounted on the sides of the boiler and as remarked they served as non-return valves not least to prevent the contents of the boiler flowing out of the injector overflow when the latter were not in use. The injectors in these classes were usually fitted either behind the cab footsteps or underneath the dragbox.

Later Johnson tender engine classes, identified by the absence of the boiler-side clacks, were fitted with combination injectors mounted as noted earlier on the 'backhead'. The clack valve was incorporated in the injector body while the feed delivery pipe was routed internally between the stays through the steam space before drooping a bit at its end positioned roughly halfway along the barrel.

Tank engines were not fitted with combination injectors despite the absence of boiler-side clacks on the later classes.

Hope this helps.

 

 

Crimson Rambler

 

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Crimson Rambler said:

Tank engines were not fitted with combination injectors despite the absence of boiler-side clacks on the later classes.

Hope this helps.

 

Having been looking rather closely at the 2441 Class 0-6-0Ts, I'd noted that they were built with boilers with clack valves forward of the tanks; many of the Belpaire boilers also had them, but in the LMS period boilers without visible clack valves start to appear.

[Crimson Rambler]

OK @Compound2632 I wrote the last post in a rush, so I shall expand. Yes the thirty Class S 0-6-0Ts had boiler-side clacks simply because they were fitted with condensing gear. In consequence they were fitted with two direct-driven feed pumps as well as a single injector on the fireman's side. As befits a later Johnson class the latter delivered through an internal feed-pipe. The pumps were fitted because at that time injectors could stop working if the entering feed was too hot - a very real risk when condensing.

 

The Class U 0-6-0Ts, being non-condensing, were provided with two injectors and followed later practice with internal feed-pipes. In these and other later tank classes the clack valves were part of a common casting that included the steam valves. 

 

 

Crimson Rambler 

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Crimson Rambler said:

OK @Compound2632 I wrote the last post in a rush, so I shall expand. Yes the thirty Class S 0-6-0Ts had boiler-side clacks simply because they were fitted with condensing gear. In consequence they were fitted with two direct-driven feed pumps as well as a single injector on the fireman's side. As befits a later Johnson class the latter delivered through an internal feed-pipe. The pumps were fitted because at that time injectors could stop working if the entering feed was too hot - a very real risk when condensing.

 

The Class U 0-6-0Ts, being non-condensing, were provided with two injectors and followed later practice with internal feed-pipes. In these and other later tank classes the clack valves were part of a common casting that included the steam valves. 

 

That makes sense. The engine I have in mind is one of those built condensing but transferred to Bromsgrove in May 1900 as Lickey bankers, Nos. 2457-2460. So, blanking plates where the condensing pipes entered the smokebox, clack valves visible, square-cornered tanks, a smattering of rivet heads on the tank side-sheet (which was held clear of the tank side proper). As far as I can work out these engines did not have cab doors but they had raised cab floors, clearing the rear splashers. The latter are a detail that doesn't come out at all clearly on the drawings in Hunt et al.

 

Refs:

D. Hunt, R.J. Essery  and F. James, Midland Engines No. 5 The Johnson ‘2441’ Class goods tank engines (Wild Swan, 2004)

S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 3 (Irwell Press, 2002)

 

The moral of today's discussion is that I should look at engines as carefully as I do at wagons and carriages. I'm afraid I have developed a habit of ignoring the engine in any photograph!

Edited January 24, 2022 by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

Coal Engine progress report:

 

The reversing rod and lever are etched in mid gear. Since I am hoping that this model will actually work and pull trains, I snipped the rod off the lever, trimmed the end at an angle, and soldered the parts back together again to represent what I believe is forward gear. (Either that or many of the Coal Engines on the L&NWRS Zenfolio site are running backwards!) This does mean that the balance weights, the soldering up of which I was quite proud of, are angled even further down out of sight and the lifting links are not hanging straight down as the should:

 

 

Here's all the bits so far, together:

 

 

The raggedy end of the smokebox wrapper will eventually be hidden behind the sandboxes. I'm not entirely convinced that the boiler isn't a whisker too long. Very soon I'm going to have to do something about motor and gearbox...

[Northroader]

Before you get too deep into superstructure details, may I suggest you get the chassis set up, particularly wheels and coupling rods  running freely, and then that you’ve the interface clearance between the wheels on the chassis , and the splashers on the superstructure?

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

Before you get too deep into superstructure details, may I suggest you get the chassis set up, particularly wheels and coupling rods  running freely, and then that you’ve the interface clearance between the wheels on the chassis , and the splashers on the superstructure?

 

Absolutely. Been putting that off...

 

Question: I've not yet found a photograph that shows both sides of an engine at the same time. Is there a universal convention for the relationship between the cranks? Suppose I'm looking at the left hand side of the engine (smokebox to my left) and the cranks on my side of the engine are at 6 o'clock (coupling rods at their lowest position) - are the cranks on the other side at 3 o'clock or at 9 o'clock, as seen from my side (looking at the back of the wheels on the far side)?

[jamie92208]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Absolutely. Been putting that off...

 

Question: I've not yet found a photograph that shows both sides of an engine at the same time. Is there a universal convention for the relationship between the cranks? Suppose I'm looking at the left hand side of the engine (smokebox to my left) and the cranks on my side of the engine are at 6 o'clock (coupling rods at their lowest position) - are the cranks on the other side at 3 o'clock or at 9 o'clock, as seen from my side (looking at the back of the wheels on the far side)?

The standard convention is right hand lead looking forward so looking from the cab the right hand ones will be at 3pm and the left hand ones on the hour.

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, jamie92208 said:

The standard convention is right hand lead looking forward so looking from the cab the right hand ones will be at 3pm and the left hand ones on the hour.

 

Jamie

 

So in the orientation I described, the LHS at 12 o'clock and the RHS at 9 o'clock, as seen from the LHS (RHS seen from behind), hence in with LHS at 6 o'clock, RHS will be at 3 o'clock as seen from the LHS. The engine moving forward, looking at the LHS the wheels rotate anticlockwise, so RHS leads LHS, QED?

 

Flemming's Left Hand Rule, anyone?

[Regularity]

I believe the LNWR had their locos quartered the other way…

[Compound2632]

OK In this photo from the L&NWRS Zenfolio site:

https://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p55397444/e4c70255f

... looking at the RHS, cranks are at 9 o'clock and I believe the coupling rod on the far side can be seen between the leading and middle wheels, at the bottom of its travel, 6 o'clock - so from the LHS we'd have LHS at 6 o'clock and RHS at 3 o'clock, as above. So yes, right hand leading.

 

I think I've got that now.

 

But why should that be a universal rule?

Edited January 26, 2022 by Compound2632

[Regularity]

I disagree, Stephen. What you see there are the stays between the horn cheeks of adjacent axles, not the coupling rod. As this is an LNWR engine, the rods on the far side would be at about 12 o’clock on this loco.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I disagree, Stephen. What you see there are the stays between the horn cheeks of adjacent axles, not the coupling rod. As this is an LNWR engine, the rods on the far side would be at about 12 o’clock on this loco.

 

OK. Left side leading. Does that mean Webb, or more likely Ramsbottom before him, was an RC?

[Compound2632]

Incidentally, 8088 there is seen at Walsall in 1935 - but I've not worked out yet how migratory LNW goods engines were. It's been given one of those monster 2,500 gal tenders that were, reputedly, heavier than the engine itself. 

[Nick Lawson]

Thanks to the searchable Railway Modeller archive I recovered a vaguely-remembered article on quartering drivers from December 1972 in which Mr Robbo Ormiston-Chant, formerly of Swindon works, said that "Most British Railways used right hand lead in setting their engines, but two, the LNWR and GNR at least used left hand lead". In case you are thinking of going even further off your normal piste, he adds that A3 pacifics also had left hand lead.
So he agrees with @Regularity

Edited January 27, 2022 by Nick Lawson
credit where credit is due

[watfordtmc]

Veering back ‘on post topic’ (possibly), may I draw your attention to this: Leek & Manifold.  LMS period though.

 

Regards

TMc

27/01/2022

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Nick Lawson said:

In case you are thinking of going even further off your normal piste, he adds that A3 pacifics also had left hand lead.

 

No danger of that!

 

46 minutes ago, watfordtmc said:

Veering back ‘on post topic’ (possibly), may I draw your attention to this: Leek & Manifold.  LMS period though.

 

D299 of course - though looking very rickety. A new number for my little list!

[Regularity]

7 hours ago, Nick Lawson said:

searchable Railway Modeller

Tell us more, please!

[Brassey]

On 26/01/2022 at 18:35, Compound2632 said:

Coal Engine progress report:

 

 

...or many of the Coal Engines on the L&NWRS Zenfolio site are running backwards!

 

 

LNWR tender engines were not prone to running tender first which presumably is why the bufferbeam on the tender was not painted red but black.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Brassey said:

LNWR tender engines were not prone to running tender first which presumably is why the bufferbeam on the tender was not painted red but black.

 

Here's two SDXs going backwards with a train:

 

https://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p154392084

 

Note the position of the reversing rod and lever on the nearer engine.

 

But that is a bit of a circus act!

[Compound2632]

Sticking with the L&NWRS Zenfolio site, trawling through the gallery of Improved Precedents, I've spotted three at Walsall at roughly my period:

 

No. 858 Sir Salar Jung, c. 1904: https://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p543111821/e7ced6476

No. 867 Disraeli, c. 1903-5: https://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p543111821/e7c6b544b

No. 1745 John Bright, c. 1903: https://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p543111821/e5a6ad483

 

I suppose the Prime Minister of Hyderabad State would be the smallest step from Lucknow, though Disraeli was responsible for the nationalisation of British India. On the whole, my sympathies are with John Bright. But of course it's a question of what name- and number-plates can be got.

 

 

[Mikkel]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

the L&NWRS Zenfolio site

 

Some good stuff on there, an excellent initiative and well worth the reasonable prices, I think.

 

PS: "Them GWR engines all look the same":  https://lnwrs.zenfolio.com/p310046721/h99ca1b4#h99ca1b4 

 

 

 

[Nick Lawson]

9 hours ago, Regularity said:

Tell us more, please!

Railway Modeller has digitised all its past issues back to 1949 and made them available online to those with a current subscription. I believe that also works for people subscribing for current paper copies.