More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[jwealleans]

Darryl beat me to that - definitely a D23 leading, then a GN, then I think one of the short O/F GC vans.

[t-b-g]

I have a Jidenco kit stashed somewhere for the GNR fish van but can illustrate the GCR type. It is one of a batch of 5 I started years ago for Sutton Dock. They may yet get finished!

 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Darryl Tooley said:

These look like fish vans to me, the first (and probably the third) being an LNER dia 23, the second an ex-GN fish van.

 

Edit: the third van on close inspection looks like it might be one of the rather similar GC fish vans - same handrail on door, but slatted sides instead of the louvres on the LNER version.

 

Yes, looking in P. Talow, LNER Wagons Vol. 1 (Wild Swan, 2005) I can see that the second van is the same type as the GN 19ft 6 ton fish van illustrated on p. 57. The third vehicle (which is clearly different to the first) looks similar to the GC 18ft 10 ton fish van on p. 137. I don't have the later volumes - LNER-built vehicles being outside my range of interest - but on the first van the louvres at the top of the sides, above X-framing, look characteristically GN in style (which presumably influenced the M&GN fruit vans) but the door is evidently of the GC type - at first sight it looks to be a pair of cupboard doors but the horizontal handrail shows that it's a single sliding door - the runners are visible too.

 

So I suppose we're looking at fish vans from an east coast port - probably Grimsby - being worked back empty from Gloucester, Cheltenham, maybe Bristol. I suspect that in Midland days the equivalent working would have used Midland vehicles. Fish tank trucks had the tanks labelled Return to Grimsby; @billbedford has previously posted a photo of one at Grimsby in company with a very similar GCR vehicle. 

[billbedford]

31 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

So I suppose we're looking at fish vans from an east coast port - probably Grimsby - being worked back empty from Gloucester, Cheltenham, maybe Bristol. I suspect that in Midland days the equivalent working would have used Midland vehicles. Fish tank trucks had the tanks labelled Return to Grimsby; @billbedford has previously posted a photo of one at Grimsby in company with a very similar GCR vehicle.

 

Wouldn't empty fish vans be returned by goods train? Following fish traffic is complicated because vans were hired out to wholesale merchants who could send them to which ever port was landing good catches. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by billbedford
typo

[Compound2632]

There are rather worryingly many appropriate RTR locomotives in the offing. 

[Mikkel]

The 1P, the Precedent, and?

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

The 1P, the Precedent, and?

 

I have my name down for the TMC NER Class O 0-4-4T but I have resisted the Rails SECR D! And that LBSC E4 that I recently bought second-hand. I keep going weak at the knees whenever the Bachman L&Y 2-4-2T comes round in L&Y livery - it's in the offing again - but I might manage to resist. I'm also supposed to be backdating an Oxford Rail Dean Goods...

 

I really should plunge and buy a LRM Coal Engine kit.

[Dave Hunt]

With a Midland 0-4-4T and an NER Class O you could start a layout based in Wharfedale.

 

Dave

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

With a Midland 0-4-4T and an NER Class O you could start a layout based in Wharfedale.

 

One could. Once upon a time - in my student days dabbling in P4 - I was heading in that direction. So I have some half-built D&S NER 6-wheelers; the idea of pre-ordering the O is to spur me on to finish them!

[Dave Hunt]

I once had aspirations to make a layout based on the Hawes branch (es) but as is so often the case it never happened. I got as far as making a Midland 0-4-4 tank and a few Midland wagons as well as getting the drawing for an O Class and visiting the remains of the line but then the project stalled. It is still an area for which I hold an affection.

 

Dave

Edited November 13, 2020 by Dave Hunt
Bad grammar afraid I did

[richard i]

8 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

I once had aspirations to make a layout based on the Hawes branch (es) but as is so often the case it never happened. I got as far as making a Midland 0-4-4 tank and a few Midland wagons as well as getting the drawing for an O Class and visiting the remains of the line but then the project stalled. It is still an area for which I hold an affection.

 

Dave

There is a p4 version being built in Essex of Hawes. 

[Paul Cram]

Indeed there is

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Paul Cram said:

Indeed there is

 

I trust this will be pre-Grouping.

[Paul Cram]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I trust this will be pre-Grouping.

Yes around 1914, although I do have LNER stock as well.

[Dave Hunt]

Is there a forum on it?

 

Dave

[Mikkel]

 

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I have my name down for the TMC NER Class O 0-4-4T but I have resisted the Rails SECR D! And that LBSC E4 that I recently bought second-hand. I keep going weak at the knees whenever the Bachman L&Y 2-4-2T comes round in L&Y livery - it's in the offing again - but I might manage to resist. I'm also supposed to be backdating an Oxford Rail Dean Goods...

 

I really should plunge and buy a LRM Coal Engine kit.

 

I had missed the NER tank.

 

Maybe use the E4 as a test? I.e. evaluate in 6 months whether it still means something to you.

[Paul Cram]

15 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

Is there a forum on it?

 

Dave

No

[Compound2632]

Just now, Mikkel said:

Maybe use the E4 as a test? I.e. evaluate in 6 months whether it still means something to you.

 

Having spent longer than 6 months elapsed time building Brighton wagons, I suspect it will take longer than that. The key thing is having a (part-built) Brighton brake van. I'm thinking of it as a "specimen" train.

[Compound2632]

This may not look like much progress over the photo posted ten days ago but I tell you it is, and a cause for great celebration: I've done all the Archer "rivet" transfers!

 

 

I found it helped with adhesion to give the transfers a wash of d-limonene after a few hours. Now just brake gear to go! I've got vees on order from Ambis Engineering and levers from 51L/Wizard - though those need curving. I can see how to do the wooden brake blocks - plasticard, with brass strip for the hanger, but not sure how to tackle the tumbler and push rods - possibly chopped up from spare bits of molded plastic brakegear?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Compound2632]

While waiting for the vees, I've been working on some other things. A good while back I built a LNWR D62 ballast wagon from the Ratio kit, with the addition of canvas (?) axlebox protectors and home-made wooden brake block. For some reason it never got buffers... Anyway, I've dug out a couple I made many years ago and started bringing them up to scratch for my c. 1902 period. For one, that's just a question of adding the canvas flaps; for the other, I've removed the double brakes (on both sides!) and backdated the axleboxes with an impression of the standard grease type.

 

 

These will all be lettered for the Birmingham & Walsall engineering district. I'd made my own plates - running number on the solebars, Engineer's divisional numberplate on one end. I think when I did this I only had LNWR Liveries to go on, now I've got LNWR Wagons Vol. 3; studying the photos in that, I'm fairly sure I put the Engineer's plate on the wrong end - it seems to always be at the brake lever end.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Mikkel]

Nice work with the Archer's transfers. Must have been a bit mind numbing!

 

On 20/11/2020 at 17:04, Compound2632 said:

I can see how to do the wooden brake blocks - plasticard, with brass strip for the hanger, but not sure how to tackle the tumbler and push rods - possibly chopped up from spare bits of molded plastic brakegear?

 

On the 2-planker I am currently building, I have made the brake blocks from laminated plasticard and fitted them to lightly modified Coopercraft brakegear. Not sure the latter is acceptable to you, but I am not in the mood for fiddly stuff at the moment. Will post a photo this evening to illustrate.

 

The axle box protectors look excellent. There is a photo of a pre-grouping GWR PW train with similar flaps fitted to regular opens, must see if I can find it.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Mikkel

[Guy Rixon]

On 20/11/2020 at 16:04, Compound2632 said:

This may not look like much progress over the photo posted ten days ago but I tell you it is, and a cause for great celebration: I've done all the Archer "rivet" transfers!

 

 

I found it helped with adhesion to give the transfers a wash of d-limonene after a few hours. Now just brake gear to go! I've got vees on order from Ambis Engineering and levers from 51L/Wizard - though those need curving. I can see how to do the wooden brake blocks - plasticard, with brass strip for the hanger, but not sure how to tackle the tumbler and push rods - possibly chopped up from spare bits of molded plastic brakegear?

Would you accept printed assemblies for the blocks, block hangers, push-rods, tumblers and safety loops? I have a few types available already and can easily add extra wheelbases if needed. 

[Compound2632]

On 22/11/2020 at 11:39, Guy Rixon said:

Would you accept printed assemblies for the blocks, block hangers, push-rods, tumblers and safety loops? I have a few types available already and can easily add extra wheelbases if needed. 

 

I had a quick look in your Shapeways shop, noting the 7'6" w/b wooden block brake gear. Apart from the w/b, the most notable difference for this early GW brake gear is that the metal backing piece to the wooden block extends upwards and is, I think, pivoted on a bracket attached to the outside face of the middle bearer:

I think I can replicate this with brass strip and a plasticard block; it's the push rods that are bugging me at the moment - they're spindley and there are no safety loops to provide extra support. Plan B is to depict wagons that have been upgraded to cast iron brake blocks, in which case Coopercraft bits come to the rescue. Some of my reference photos show iron blocks. However, the 1-plank wagon 13521 in in post-1904 livery (with oil boxes too); 2-plank wagon 19159 is in pre-1904 livery and certainly photographed before Feb 1906 but 20181 photographed in April 1908 still has wooden blocks, as does the 4-plank wagon in the safety book.

 

Looking through those photos I'm reminded that I need to add horse hooks and representations of the wagon label box-thingy.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Guy Rixon]

Your drawing suggests that this kind of push rod is a round bar, drawn down to a flat section at the end opposite to the block, where it's pierced for the pin that links it to the tumbler. If that were the case, I would make them of wire with the flat ends squashed in the vice and the sharp ends drilled into the blocks. They would be strong enough not to need a strong support. 

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, Guy Rixon said:

Your drawing suggests that this kind of push rod is a round bar, drawn down to a flat section at the end opposite to the block, where it's pierced for the pin that links it to the tumbler. 

 

Looking through my reference photos again, you describe correctly the construction of the push rod I've drawn. The snag is, as I now realise, that those are the push rods seen on the converted ex-BG 2-plank wagons I had also started a drawing for*; the Saltney wagons all have the usual pair of flat iron push rods...

 

*Stalled for the moment because I couldn't reconcile the width I deduced from photos - around 7'5" - 7'6" - with the 7'2" width @Chrisbr had quoted me from the wagon registers: