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Compound2632

More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

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27 minutes ago, wagonman said:

The sources of most of the data used by A B & T are the official wagon registers, one of which is at Kew and the other at York – and I can never remember which is where. 

 

The authors are frustratingly reticent about their sources - which I would regard as bad practice. But they weren't writing for an academic publisher and we should be grateful for what they did produce!

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15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

For standard gauge wagons, A. G. Atkins, W. Beard and R. Tourret, G W R Goods Wagons (Tourret Publishing, Abingdon, 1998) is a start, though as we've seen, incomplete in some areas e.g. the pre-Iron Mink wood Minks. That's the third and I believe most complete edition, which was reprinted in 2013 but nevertheless commands a hefty price second hand. I'm fortunate in that a fellow club member has a copy. The first edition was in 1975, I believe, in two smaller volumes. Usually referred to as "The Bible" on account not only of its size but also its perceived infallibility.

 

The number list I made is based on it: Atkins et al wagon numbers up to c1905.pdf

I have a copy of that book, of what I believe to be the later combined printing, and there is hardly anything Pre 1930s which is what I had bought the book for originally when I was still building 4mm.  

So clearly Im missing something.  

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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The authors are frustratingly reticent about their sources - which I would regard as bad practice. But they weren't writing for an academic publisher and we should be grateful for what they did produce!

 

Exceptionally common in even quite good railway books - and especially true of wagon publications - it's poor form, yes, and frustrating as it's then incredibly difficult to check working and reasoning from original documents. An honourable mention to Mike King, however, who does provide a handful of references (all that are really necessary, in fairness) in his Southern Wagons Pictorial, not that this is relevant to this particular topic, but he stands alone in the work I've seen.*

 

Adam

 

* He may not be alone, of course, but that's my observation.

 

[And pity those of us who have to cite this stuff for works put out by academic presses who cannot just take this material on trust - yours, a grumpy editor]

Edited by Adam
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A little light modelling. I've added upper footboards to the tariff brake van and lower footboards to the Billinton brake:

 

365709337_MidlandD382AandLBSCBillintonbrakefootboards.JPG.135748d9397028481de8b892a0f22912.JPG

 

Evergreen strip, 0.020" in both cases, scrawked a little thinner towards the front. The strip I have is 0.125" (3.18 mm - 9½”) wide, which in retrospect is too wide. I cut about 0.5 mm off the footboards for the tariff brake; I'm happy with how they look. I didn't want to cut too far in for the axlebox rebates on the Billinton brake but the result is that width over stepboards is 36 mm - 9'0" - where the diagram gives 8'6". I think there's an accumulation of "slightly too big" - the thickness of the axleguards and the depth of the axleboxes. I think I can get away with shaving 0.5 mm off each stepboard (probably by making new ones), bringing the width down to 31 mm, the same as the tariff brake. I had built up the back of the stepboard with 0.010" x 0.030" microstrip but I think this needs to be 0.040" (1 mm) to be more prominent. For the moment, the stepboards are just glued to the axleboxes; the plan is to bend up and glue the support brackets (wire) with the footboard in place. 

 

Clearly I would have done better to buy 0.020" x 0.100" (2.54 mm - 7⅝”) strip - why is it that every time I buy some I discover within the fortnight that I ought to have got a different size? At least I'm building up a stock...

 

The tariff brake has gained doorhandles, made in a rather retro manner: Peco track pins with flats filed on either side of the head. The handrail jig from the Mousa Kirtley brake came in handy again, as the pins are a tight fit in the 0.5 mm holes; tight enough that the pin doesn't rotate when filed. However, each hole can only be used once - the resin is yielding so the first pin makes the hole a bit bigger; the second pin is a loose fit and spins round when filed. Flushed with success from my first handle, it took a couple of goes before I realised this!

Edited by Compound2632
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On 18/02/2020 at 13:54, Spitfire2865 said:

I have a copy of that book, of what I believe to be the later combined printing, and there is hardly anything Pre 1930s which is what I had bought the book for originally when I was still building 4mm.  

So clearly Im missing something.  

 

A brown cover? 1st editions were in 2 vols., combined in a 2nd edition. The 3rd edition was hugely expanded since one of the authors became publisher so they were not told how many pages they could do (or so I was told - I think by one of the other authors). This had a grey cover. It was reprinted several years ago.

Edited by richbrummitt
Memory recall
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3 hours ago, Adam said:

 

Exceptionally common in even quite good railway books - and especially true of wagon publications - it's poor form, yes, and frustrating as it's then incredibly difficult to check working and reasoning from original documents. An honourable mention to Mike King, however, who does provide a handful of references (all that are really necessary, in fairness) in his Southern Wagons Pictorial, not that this is relevant to this particular topic, but he stands alone in the work I've seen.*

 

 

 

Guilty as charged! I do try to give sources within the body text where appropriate (some sources are not publicly available) but I don't provide citation in a work intended for a generalist readership. When writing for a 'learned' journal I do of course go the full Harvard.

 

 

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10 hours ago, wagonman said:

The sources of most of the data used by A B & T are the official wagon registers, one of which is at Kew and the other at York – and I can never remember which is where. How far back the early one goes is another matter...

 

 

1-100,000 are in York, so I presume the higher numbers are at Kew. The first wagon to bear the number 1 was recorded as being built in 1847 (there were 2 more to carry the number)

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5 hours ago, richbrummitt said:

 

A brown cover? 1st editions were in 2 vols., combined in a 2nd edition. The 3rd edition was hugely expanded since one of the authors became publisher so they were not told how many pages they could do (or so I was told - I think by one of the other authors). This had a grey cover. It was reprinted several years ago as what I believe is termed a perfect binding i.e. softcover rather than the previous hardbacks.

It is the combined hardbacked version. Its a deep brown cover under the jacket. Published 1986. 

Unfortunately when I purchased it, it wasnt very clear which version it was. The trouble of buying online from across an ocean I suppose. 

 

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On 18/02/2020 at 17:10, richbrummitt said:

It was reprinted several years ago as what I believe is termed a perfect binding i.e. softcover rather than the previous hardbacks.

 

The reprint from a few years ago was also in hardback, I have one sat on the shelf.

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On 17/02/2020 at 22:32, Compound2632 said:

Usually referred to as "The Bible" on account not only of its size but also its perceived infallibility.

 

I'm not sure anyone thinks it is infallible, it is however the most comprehensive work on GW goods vehicles by a country mile, hence it's nickname.

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54 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

The reprint from a few years ago was also in hardback, I have one sat on the shelf.

I stand corrected. Frustratingly I'd not long purchased a copy of the 1998 ed. (after saving for a while) not long before it was announced. It appeared soon after for about half what I paid. There's one on Amazon atm for an eye watering sum - £295!

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I've just come across another D299 photo, at Hall End Colliery, Polesworth. Unfortunately even using the magnify tool, I can't quite decipher the number - ?(6?) 3 ? ? 9? - but the tare 5.0 is very clear.

 

I've submitted a comment asking why the date is though to be 27 Aug 1940 since from the condition of the wagon, I'd say Great War or soon after at the very latest. I wonder if there was a dictation error - 14 misheard as 40?

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