What Carriages made up the Lancing Belle?

[GreenGiraffe22]

Title really says it all really, I was reading about the Lancing Belle today and thought it might be fun to recreate a 1930s version with Bachmann's E4s, but I was wondering if anyone knew what carriages made it up? There are some photos of it in BR days but I can't find any earlier photos of it. In any case I think I'd have to make a slightly shorter version as a 9-carriage train will probably take up 3/4 of my circuit haha

[burgundy]

This question seems to have sunk without trace which is a shame. I thought that I could put my hand on a photo of the train in the 1920s but have not been able to track this down so far. What follows is therefore from memory, but I hope that it will be enough to stimulate discussion.  

As I recall the photo, the Belle was made up of elderly Stroudley 4 wheelers and Billinton 6 wheelers. Unless you wish to build these from kits (which are available in etched brass for many of the variants), the easiest quick fix might be to use the Bachmann 4 wheeled carriages that feature on Oak Hill. I believe that these come from the US "Thomas" range, but I may be wrong.

For background on the Belle, have a look on the ASLEF website which is an absolutely amazing resource - whatever your politics!

I hope that this helps

Best wishes

Eric   

[IWCR]

The  belle  was  formed  of  Stroudley  &  Billinton  4  and  6 wheel  stock  up  to 1930  when these  were  withdrawn.

These  are  known  and  vehicle  types  can  be detailed

What the  post  seemed  to  be asking  for  would  be  the  stock  which  followed  these. 

This  I  dont  know,  a  possible would  be  the  early  Brighton  Bogie  stock,  some  of  this  was  even  built   using  body  sections  from  earlier  6  wheelers.

Perhaps  contacting  the  Brighton  Circle  would  get  a definitive  answer.

 

Pete

[GreenGiraffe22]

thanks for the information My layout is mainly set in 1943 East Sussex, but I still enjoy running my Pullmans and occasionally The Flying Scotsman & Mallard make a visit - just for fun, so it isn't *always* entirely historically accurate.

I found this picture of the Lancing Belle which I assume I think is from the early 60s 

 

 

and this guy has a few photos of the carriages around Lancing Works https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/with/14213500115/

[BlueLightning]

Just seen this thread. Yes the "Stroudley's" I have on Oak Hill are from the Bachmann USA Thomas range. there are some pictures of them having been detailed later in the thread and they do look good. If you are interested in getting them I got them from www.towerhobbies.com (no connection, just a customer etc,) they took a week to arrive and were cheaper than anyone selling them in the UK.

 

Looking through the flicker account you linked I came across this image that appears to say it was a Lancing Belle carriage in the mid 30's and when I look at it I think it would be quite easy to bash from one of the old Tri-ang Clerestory composites so maybe that's a way to get an "accurate" rake for your time period.

 

Gary

[Brake Compo]

See Service Stock of the Southern Railway, Kinder R.W, The Oakwood Press, 1980, pages 53 & 54.  This discusses the formation of the Lancing Belle at various points in its history, although not comprehensively.  The change from a polyglot collection of four wheeled coaches is reported to have taken place in 1934.  An extract covering the period that we seem to be interested in is as follows:

 

"From 1934, thirteen short-bodied ex-LSW bogie carriages were use, as follows:

 

401S cpo bk 6418

402S 3rd 351

403S cpo 4752

404S cpo 4786

405S 3rd 331

406S 3rd 420

407S 3rd 425

408S 3rd 269

409S 3rd 211

410S 3rd 435

411S 3rd 368

412S 3rd 347

413S 3rd bk 2646"

 

Cross referencing to LSWR Carriages Volume One 1838 - 1900, by Weddell G.R, Wild Swan Publications, 1992, reveals the BC to have been a d400A 45' vehicle  built in 1893 (follow ref 5.9 in the book), the thirds were all d722/944 48' vehicles built between 1894 and 1899 (ref 5.13), the composites d650 48' vehicles built in 1896-7 (ref 5.16), and the BT to have been d110 rebuild of a d511 42' third, built in 1894 (ref 5.6).

 

The majority of these could be modelled (expensively) by de-converting the new Hornby coaches back to 48' stock, as these were the very vehicles that were lengthened by the SR.  But as these would need new underframes & running gear and would need the mouldings at the lower bodyside altered (the SR inserted bulky triangular mouldings to take the body width out to match the wider SR underframes), scratch building might be a better bet.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited July 30, 2016 by Brake Compo

[John M Upton]

To return to an old topic, did the Lancing Belle pick up and drop off at Lancing Station itself or did it go straight into the Works. If the latter, was there sine sort of platform there for it?

[GreenGiraffe22]

I'd forgotten all about this topic and missed some of the replies, if the post-1934 carriages were unlengthened ex LSWR carriages that Hornby released I might just make do with those as I have a couple already and could pick up a few more, I've got the two E4s to pull them the layout is only being viewed by me, I can deal with the carriages being 'half right' for now.

[Gwiwer]

To return to an old topic, did the Lancing Belle pick up and drop off at Lancing Station itself or did it go straight into the Works. If the latter, was there sine sort of platform there for it?

 

I would assume it went direct to the Works since that length of train would be way too long for the platform which was also a considerable distance from the works and might be a 20 minute walk.  

 

As John would know anything longer than a 4-car train (of 63' stock or thereabouts) will obstruct the level crossing on the down.  Though I remember several occasions when unsuspecting passengers in the rear coach or two of a 6-car Bil / Hal formation simply opened the door, jumped down to the track and hopped over the crossing gates!

 

Can't offer any more on the Lancing Belle formation, sorry, but that seems to have been dealt with anyway.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Gwiwer

[SR71]

Found this topic while doing some reseach myself. As it comes quite high up google when searching the Lancing Belle I thought I would add for anyone else looking that there there is a picture of a Stroudley 4 wheeler in use (and a Billington heading out of shot) on the Belle on page 48 of "Brighton Line Album" by R.C.Riley. Below that is a shot of LSWR bogie carriages forming a later version of the Belle being pulled by two E4's.