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Goathland & Grim-up-North...Queensbury styrene madness.

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G'day Folks

 

Yes, you 'Need' N1's.  Atlantics, for Fun.

 

manna

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There's still quite a bit of the weekend left (on this side of the West Coast anyhow) and last night I managed to wire in another 6 point motors and two relays. The air con needs to be installed first as it's heading for the 90sF.

I'm not letting anything get in my way today. The phone has been switched off. It's a Sunday for pete's sake!!!

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My neighbors must think I'm a hermit or something. "What's he building in there".:scratchhead::dontknow:

Most of the day was spent stripping, sweating, and beavering away at the guts of the layout.  That's stripping wires, sweating together soldered joints and working... well... like a beaver! (I knew some of you would get the wrong impression!!!)

2064152642_Junewiring(1).JPG.939c49c738d4d7d19594a1ca0a6107e9.JPG

 

All that said and done all I really managed to do was add 9 point motors and two relays. 

The pics show two sections in which the gymnastics took place. Nice and simple looking above board and the nightmare below!

 

520674782_Junewiring(3).JPG.db28b67a27a44698573e30ad8ece9a98.JPG2022331907_Junewiring(2).JPG.11231e92544e6628d6c54456f6460e0f.JPG

 

 

Two more which switch the controllers over, were mounted on a small scrap of ply and most of the wiring added before I screwed that to the underside of the layout.

2009032274_Junewiring(4).JPG.13c3df45dfe7ffdf1f27893d2dd676ef.JPG

 

My idea of entertainment. (Sad old git):scratchhead::dontknow:

 

Sorry no trains.

 

Shaun.

 

 

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G'Day Folks

 

Looks like Houston control to me.

 

manna

 

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4 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

My idea of entertainment. (Sad old git)

You’re not alone! (equally sad git)

Paul.

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Work is getting in the way of hobbies again.:drag:

 

The wiring is almost complete. Everything so far seems to work having been tested, fixed etc. Next job is to build and wire in the control panels. With a bit of luck time might allow for this in the next couple of days, then I can put the layout back together.

 

The next thing on the shopping list is some two part casting plastic which I need to make the uncoupling system. This went smoothly on Goathland and should be even quicker and easier this time around because there's no ballast down yet.

 

Regards Shaun.

 

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It's hard to believe that a whole month has passed since my last post.

 

First thing is that when I stated last month that the wiring was almost complete I couldn't have been more wrong. That's what has taken a month to do! Many problems had to be solved not least about 9 points that wouldn't throw for various reasons. Despite my best plans and efforts the receiving  end of the double slip had to have it's own switch installed. I also added 3 more switches  to the crossovers, due to some amperage drop in the long supply wire from the CDU on Queensbury (despite the whopping 24VDC, 3amp power pack and hefty speaker wire).

 

Half of the crude control panel . front and back.

DSCF0453.JPG.c90bb95b432e9d776260f35e961f98ce.JPG

DSCF0456.JPG.f62c95d8525a5755af406536f3944429.JPG

 

Both boards have been put back on their feet ready for final assembly and testing in the morning.  

 

The next section of Grim-up-North I aim to tackle is the junction under the abbey where the lines from Goathland meet the lines from Queensbury. Here the two lines will merge into a four track situation (Up slow,up fast, down fast & down slow) and emerge into the more modern suburb of the mill town.

DSCF0468.JPG.72e6785d2bf3a32bb2b4fbb7cae3ed95.JPG

 

Lastly tonights train is the brand spanking GNR atlantic. "Ooh!!! Suit you sir". "Suits you".   822960926_WilliamsWhitehouse.jpg.cbc6650482882879873ccf6e7156a849.jpg

DSCF0458.JPG.e53bd4dd174661a416d666f699514dc5.JPG

 

Regards Shaun.

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I rather like those flower beds on your platform, Shaun. Nice touch!

 

Cheers

 

Scott

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Have you got shares in a wire supply company over there mate? haha

 

Nice job though.

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9 hours ago, jukebox said:

I rather like those flower beds on your platform, Shaun. Nice touch!

 

Cheers

 

Scott

Thanks Scott. More of the same is needed here and there on the layout. Certainly brightens things up.

 

Regards Shaun.

 

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7 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Have you got shares in a wire supply company over there mate? haha

 

Nice job though.

Hi Andy. Wouldn't have been a bad idea, have you seen the price of copper!

 

I get it at garage sales on spools for next to nothing. After one of our cats died of cancer we have decided to do away with the wireless home network and I have Rolls of ISDN cables ready to install but I'm scared to crawl under the house haha.

DSCF0470.JPG.593a358700af4e075b4c13ae698cf8cb.JPG

 

Regards Shaun

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2 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Hi Andy. Wouldn't have been a bad idea, have you seen the price of copper!

 

I get it at garage sales on spools for next to nothing. After one of our cats died of cancer we have decided to do away with the wireless home network and I have Rolls of ISDN cables ready to install but I'm scared to crawl under the house haha.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_07/DSCF0470.JPG.593a358700af4e075b4c13ae698cf8cb.JPG

 

Regards Shaun

Holy poo that's enormous mate, what is it?

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46 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Holy poo that's enormous mate, what is it?

Not quite sure! It's just the exoskeleton which means the bug is still at large and probably even bigger.

34 minutes ago, westerhamstation said:

Hi Shaun, that's certainly not oo gauge. All the best Adrian.

Truth is I made it out of plastic strip to go on the back of a flat bed lorry for the carnival procession I'm building for that mill town.:taunt:

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Posted (edited)

Looks like the May Bugs, which we have here.  They look horrendous, but are absolutely harmless   -   unless you are riding a bike and meet one going the other way, at head height!!   :superman: 

 

Regards

 

Julian

 

PS. A coat of varnish and it would, indeed, make a great carnival entry, or sign for one of those "Eat All You Can" burger outlets - with a red LED to light up the inside.

 

Regards

 

Julian

 

 

Edited by jcredfer
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Yesterday was a complete disaster. Turns out my wiring all works fine. However when the test runs began frustration set in rather quickly when most locomotives refused to negotiate those Shinohara turnouts. Incidentally it's the newer models which are having the problems.

 

Today I have begun ripping them up and replacing them with Peco ones from my stock. Also that facing 3way had to go due to the same problem. It's pure luck that I have all the Peco replacements to hand which I was saving for the mill town. The solenoid motors are all pre-wired but two need to be moved. The right turn on that 3way formed a crossover which will be eliminated, these two solenoids will be used to replace  the H&M ones on the crossover I added in the loops. This means when I have modified the track the layout must come apart for rewiring because I'm getting too old to be crawling about on the floor under the layout.    

 

Pictures when it's all done which shouldn't take too long as I have already replaced  the two most difficult ones.

 

Regards Shaun

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Having made some real headway with this today I can say that I'm very pleased with the results. It all looks much better, above all it works and the locos seem happy too.

 

Here's what it looked like this morning showing four of the trouble spots (arrowed)...

1165726799_Progress(1).JPG.45be3a253c956dca7720ad0d775242a0.JPG

 

 

...and here's what has been changed. Seems a waist using those lovely old Peco long points especially with those nice shiny metal check rails. The one closest to the camera has been gently bent!

1055116201_Replacements(1).JPG.098995a0decaef2bf9cfb004086d5034.JPG

758456736_Replacements(2).JPG.264a2c0fd69acc01f567a31c8acc4c47.JPG

 

 

The outer (UP) loops are longer which is a bonus. All the curves needed some amendment to aid clearance. 

70330941_Replacements(3).JPG.f8319c07cf3bc5fad72b0472eb50ad7b.JPG

 

 

The next section was the cross over also with a bit of tweaking.

1472426163_Replacements(4).JPG.3f5874770a5b9d54723655cb79d7b0bc.JPG

673750192_Replacements(5).JPG.6c34e6a459cbb461689a91a163265da3.JPG

 

 

 

Tomorrow first thing I'll tackle the two at the other end of loops and wire it up.

1543395655_Replacements(6).JPG.7d90432c13f5d426f4e11c2427e6615d.JPG

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Quick post this morning about a bit of detective work.

 

So I wanted to get to the route of this problem before ripping up more track work. The Draper dial caliper was a bargain find at a local estate sale, here I used it to take measurements of. . .

 

1. The back to back wheel centers of a Hornby N1.  14.08mm

1459071961_HornbyN2backtoback.JPG.5d1b5f88f01952258a49d8d95926c3aa.JPG

 

2. The outside distance of the Peco check rails.     12.94mm

1718424277_Pecocheckrailoutside.JPG.dd5ad2f06aa97370bcdcddeb079c32c1.JPG

 

3. The same on the Shinohara turnouts.         14.40mm:nono:

1790255209_Shinoharaoutsidecheckrails.JPG.835c5e807961b845dc281700bee30cd6.JPG

 

The test locos used before I began the wiring up were a Heljan class 128 and Bachmann class 105 both with a wheel back to back of 14.40mm.

 

The shortfall of  0.32mm between the Hornby loco and the Shinohara track was causing the locos to lift off and derail.

 

So who should we bring to justice.

The internet isn't much help here. DCC concepts quote 14.5mm and the Markits gauge is only 14.2mm. for wheel back to backs.

 

Conclusion is that none of it truly compatible

Personally I find myself in the dock for not being more vigilant and too trusting.

 

Regards Shaun. Facing a good Rap Across the Knuckles.

 

 

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Umm,

Sorry, I expect things to work as they should and if all the new stuff has the same specification then they should all work to it.  I have had problems with older coach wheels though.

 

It must be so annoying.

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1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

Quick post this morning about a bit of detective work.

 

So I wanted to get to the route of this problem before ripping up more track work. The Draper dial caliper was a bargain find at a local estate sale, here I used it to take measurements of. . .

 

1. The back to back wheel centers of a Hornby N1.  14.08mm

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/1459071961_HornbyN2backtoback.JPG.5d1b5f88f01952258a49d8d95926c3aa.JPG

 

2. The outside distance of the Peco check rails.     12.94mm

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/1718424277_Pecocheckrailoutside.JPG.dd5ad2f06aa97370bcdcddeb079c32c1.JPG

 

3. The same on the Shinohara turnouts.         14.40mmhttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_nono.gif

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/1790255209_Shinoharaoutsidecheckrails.JPG.835c5e807961b845dc281700bee30cd6.JPG

 

The test locos used before I began the wiring up were a Heljan class 128 and Bachmann class 105 both with a wheel back to back of 14.40mm.

 

The shortfall of  0.32mm between the Hornby loco and the Shinohara track was causing the locos to lift off and derail.

 

So who should we bring to justice.

The internet isn't much help here. DCC concepts quote 14.5mm and the Markits gauge is only 14.2mm. for wheel back to backs.

 

Conclusion is that none of it truly compatible

Personally I find myself in the dock for not being more vigilant and too trusting.

 

Regards Shaun. Facing a good Rap Across the Knuckles.

 

 

Cutting a long story short the Hornby loco wheels are too close together and the Shinohara rails are too far apart. The Heljan back-to-backs are fairly typical for modern RTR stock.

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33 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

Umm,

Sorry, I expect things to work as they should and if all the new stuff has the same specification then they should all work to it.  I have had problems with older coach wheels though.

 

It must be so annoying.

Hi Chris.

It is a bit annoying. I thought I'd scored the bargain of the year buying 22 live frog turnouts for the mere sum of $15!

What's more I purchased a Shinohara scissor crossover  too. I will just have to put it all on eBay.

 

When it comes to stock wheels minor adjustments are sometimes needed, a simple task but I have found just adding weight cures many ills! Lead shot (BB pellets american) can be snuck in (more american) almost anywhere, especially under seats!

 

Regards Shaun

 

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Had problems with Shinohara before. I had a scissors crossing and found locos were derailing  over it. When I checked the gauge, it was 18.3 at one point. Judicious use of 90 second epoxy and a pair of pliers got it back to something more reasonable. Kept clear of Shinohara until now, but just picked up some cheapish H0n3 points on eBay and, surprise, surprise, I find the same problem.

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Hate to say it Shaun, but I had exactly the same problem with Stockrington.  Bought a large quantity of beautifully elegant long Code 70 turnouts and double slips...  but could see my stock fighting them as it passed over them, and the occasional, sporadic and not repeatable derailment, when I was doing running tests.

 

After my upheaval in 2013, I came to the same conclusion as you, and replaced the lot with Peco Code 75.  Not quite as graceful, but now problem free. If it's any consolation, now they are in, your eye just gets used to the geometry and they look fine.

 

And like you, I have a fistful of Code 70 Shin's that need to be disposed of, undoubtedly at a loss.  The worst part for me was that I'd gone through and spent a large number of hours making them "DCC friendly"... all for nought.

 

Learning curves, right?

 

Regards

 

Scott

 

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6 hours ago, JZ said:

Had problems with Shinohara before. I had a scissors crossing and found locos were derailing  over it. When I checked the gauge, it was 18.3 at one point. Judicious use of 90 second epoxy and a pair of pliers got it back to something more reasonable. Kept clear of Shinohara until now, but just picked up some cheapish H0n3 points on eBay and, surprise, surprise, I find the same problem.

 

2 hours ago, jukebox said:

Hate to say it Shaun, but I had exactly the same problem with Stockrington.  Bought a large quantity of beautifully elegant long Code 70 turnouts and double slips...  but could see my stock fighting them as it passed over them, and the occasional, sporadic and not repeatable derailment, when I was doing running tests.

 

After my upheaval in 2013, I came to the same conclusion as you, and replaced the lot with Peco Code 75.  Not quite as graceful, but now problem free. If it's any consolation, now they are in, your eye just gets used to the geometry and they look fine.

 

And like you, I have a fistful of Code 70 Shin's that need to be disposed of, undoubtedly at a loss.  The worst part for me was that I'd gone through and spent a large number of hours making them "DCC friendly"... all for nought.

 

Learning curves, right?

 

Regards

 

Scott

 

Sorry to here this guys.

 

One thing for sure is that Shinohara is HO.  The wheels on HO equipment are a totally different story.

 

Lesson learnt!

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Posted (edited)

Turnout surgery time.

Take a nice shiny large radius dead frog point straight out of the box and using pliers pull one of the frog rails off.

1420089035_Turnoutsurgery(1).JPG.8a9fe80d08694819aad82b6ed7840054.JPG

Chisel off the plastic frog

 

Find a long enough scrap of Peco code 100 rail and test for fit.

1633153153_Turnoutsurgery(2).JPG.59766ad2c8657c605f5a8bb1c9890b72.JPG

 

File the taper on the edge and file off the flat bottom.

454818713_Turnoutsurgery(3).JPG.d07bd60ba803305ee10696a3c6832f6f.JPG

 

A little more each try until it fits.

1947256069_Turnoutsurgery(5).JPG.69de8feaeb5d3ff545d130da06489809.JPG

 

Solder it to the other frog rail.

179675410_Turnoutsurgery(6).JPG.543173db26afbb488d0d5c43c96358ad.JPG

 

 

Another touch with the iron drawn into the V helps spread the solder.

704913897_Turnoutsurgery(7).JPG.f9c413d2d706dc940991c3b160a676b8.JPG

 

File it down and use the flat pointy needle file to trim out any excess in the flange-way.

938097069_Turnoutsurgery(8).JPG.60def5dd29705e3ef12d5fe9bf82b7b6.JPG

 

 

Check all is well with the plus 200s on or use super macro.

88713916_Turnoutsurgery(9).JPG.0d9ae2735ebb796c1f580b8cca4ee901.JPG

 

Now for the tricky bit. Gently reroute the under wire and solder to the other one.

1335634206_Turnoutsurgery(10).JPG.cf78fb26128932779a8423ed4f65e8f8.JPG

 

 

Remove chunks of webbing on the inside curve and make cuts on the outside as marked.

1506733092_Turnoutsurgery(11).JPG.09558701c56153d9281e8d82f00b2c35.JPG

 

Holding on a flat surface, gently bend.

1243473850_Turnoutsurgery(12).JPG.6b822bbf06a13e2a37363bed216af02e.JPG

 

 

Beware that the inside switch rail will be out of gauge. So bend that too. The slide bar mount is free to move on the rails and might need moving so as to allow the tie bar to move freely. Make sure the switch rails still sit in the rail pockets. (blue arrows).

1007315157_Turnoutsurgery(13).JPG.95a1af1b0d636f787a73b1ecf97f5f91.JPG

 

The spring won’t work. Gently remove it and the housing. Save the parts for a rainy day.

1889071656_Turnoutsurgery(14).JPG.3fcc7a8353006cd7d9248be25e3a283e.JPG

 

Trim off all the ugly gubbins. I used a razor saw to cut off the spring housing mount from underneath.

1487459370_Turnoutsurgery(15).JPG.0bec1bca33ecaa04f0e2200224cb994b.JPG

 

Overlay test for fit. Tweaking was needed.

362469202_Turnoutsurgery(16).JPG.21e7f8c060c96f92d8bd284beb6a5043.JPG

 

 

With a little trimming of the adjacent track the new point just slipped onto the existing "self latching" SEEP PM4 which is still mounted under the board. Note that this still needs pinning down which explains the gap. 

1676319113_Turnoutsurgery(17).JPG.20438c6cef87f27de2a0c2e1fb9cf2ca.JPG

 

Just need to redo the track joiners and make a tidier job of the droppers.      

 

Hope you enjoyed that as much as me. It wasn't hard  and I aim to give encouragement because it does wonders for the look and flow of the railway .

 

Shaun.

Edited by Sasquatch
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