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Class A3 4-6-2 in O Gauge from Hatton's


Hattons Dave
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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Where would they get "matching handrails" from? If they've not been made, they've not been made.

 

After that there would be the inevitable models that are attempted to be returned because the modeller had drilled the holes in the wrong place. There are plenty of people who can't/won't plug pre-made details into pre-drilled holes (See ViTrains threads).

From the same factory, they would be the same/very similar to the A3 version ? . Its a very poor quality control at best, Hattons/Heljan will have to pay to have them made if needed, its their responsibilty, not the buyer.

 

Hattons should be speaking up for themselves, and say what they are going to do about it.

It is irrelevant whether people want to fit them or not , they should be provided. As already said, they should also confirm if the  warranty is affected or not,  if the consumer  then fits them to the model.

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19 minutes ago, micklner said:

From the same factory, they would be the same/very similar to the A3 version ? . Its a very poor quality control at best, Hattons/Heljan will have to pay to have them made if needed, its their responsibilty, not the buyer.

 

Hattons should be speaking up for themselves, and say what they are going to do about it.

It is irrelevant whether people want to fit them or not , they should be provided. As already said, they should also confirm if the  warranty is affected or not,  if the consumer  then fits them to the model.

You make  a valid point, in an ideal world.

There is probably not one RTR locomotive from any mainstream supplier that does not have an error or an omission.

Who is going to decide which points to rectify and which not?

To you it's a hand rail, to me it's the drain cocks on the A3 that offend.

This is a cheap, for what it is model, built down to a price. 

I never expected to see a pacific of any type available retail for less than a grand.

It does seem to be a fairly basic and easily avoidable mistake when checking the EP sample.

However I think you are going too far in claiming that Hattons should pay to provide them.

Bernard 

 

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1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

You make  a valid point, in an ideal world.

There is probably not one RTR locomotive from any mainstream supplier that does not have an error or an omission.

Who is going to decide which points to rectify and which not?

To you it's a hand rail, to me it's the drain cocks on the A3 that offend.

This is a cheap, for what it is model, built down to a price. 

I never expected to see a pacific of any type available retail for less than a grand.

It does seem to be a fairly basic and easily avoidable mistake when checking the EP sample.

However I think you are going too far in claiming that Hattons should pay to provide them.

Bernard 

 

The one reason for my comment re the handrail is that it would cost virtually nothing to replace/supply. Only Hattons/Heljan could provide a matching part e.g in this case the Handrail  Knobs for the model, chances are the part has a unique shape.

I realise the model has been built to a price, but some of the faults/omissions are penny pinching in the extreme, and are doing Hattons no favours with any future sales.

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10 hours ago, micklner said:

The one reason for my comment re the handrail is that it would cost virtually nothing to replace/supply. Only Hattons/Heljan could provide a matching part e.g in this case the Handrail  Knobs for the model, chances are the part has a unique shape.

 

They might cost nothing to you but in the real world we are talking about going back to the factory and booking a production slot to produce a set of handrails. That IS a cost and even if it's borne, you won't see these handrails for several months. You can't just ring up the factory and say "Can you drop a few hundred handrails in the post." There won't be piles sitting around, they will need to be made by someone.

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13 hours ago, jay*bobble said:

We are suppose to be modlers. Fitting hand rails is no big job.and thay all ready have them .thay are the same on the tender.so won't b a major job for Hattons to supply them.

 

And I am a writer who made money producing a 4 page article years ago telling people how to stick the details bits on ViTrains locos. Why? Because lots of "modellers" on here gnashed their teeth and wailed because they were expected to known how to push a handrail into some pre-made holes. Head over to the Facebook and you'll find people bemoaning the lack of explicit instructions on where to place the containers on the RHTT - despite there being plenty of prototype photos available.

 

Modellers could buy a few handrail knobs and some wire as required if it worries them. We used to do it all the time for RTR in the days when moulded on handrails had to be scraped off first. I suspect most people will be happy to have a big loco for so little money and not bother attacking it with a drill bit. This is still a lot cheaper than buying and building a kit.

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6 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

They might cost nothing to you but in the real world we are talking about going back to the factory and booking a production slot to produce a set of handrails. That IS a cost and even if it's borne, you won't see these handrails for several months. You can't just ring up the factory and say "Can you drop a few hundred handrails in the post." There won't be piles sitting around, they will need to be made by someone.

If you read my last post , I suggested Handrail Knobs only are supplied, why? again as already said again the chances of getting the same shape is sheer luck, the cost is minimal to Hattons.

 

It is also called providing customer service and their reputation which to a seller is priceless, once lost it is very hard to regain.

 

What has Hattons said about these minor problems? .

 

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9 hours ago, micklner said:

If you read my last post , I suggested Handrail Knobs only are supplied, why? again as already said again the chances of getting the same shape is sheer luck, the cost is minimal to Hattons.

 

It is also called providing customer service and their reputation which to a seller is priceless, once lost it is very hard to regain.

 

What has Hattons said about these minor problems? .

 

Yes but the same arguement applies to handrail knobs, they won't have them sitting around so they would need a production slot for them. These days they'll only produce enough to cover the production run  order (plus maybe a few extra to cover assembly breakages.)

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10 hours ago, micklner said:

If you read my last post , I suggested Handrail Knobs only are supplied, why? again as already said again the chances of getting the same shape is sheer luck, the cost is minimal to Hattons.

 

It is also called providing customer service and their reputation which to a seller is priceless, once lost it is very hard to regain.

 

What has Hattons said about these minor problems? .

 

The cost is not minimal to Hattons. As others have explained.

 

A minor omission in a locomotive from a supplier that has a "history" of errors in its range, is hardly likely to lead to a massive customer revolt. 

 

Do they even see it as a problem?

 

Bernard

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If you want an example, then please refer to the history of Heljan 7mm diesel models with gear failures.  

 

There were many failures of certain models, spares were available for a while, then were no longer available.  As I understand it, failures typically happened after some time (even if unused) and they were typically not repaired under warranty (though some may have been).  I believe some of the replacement gears failed in the same way as the originals.  Jim Snowdon arranged to have a batch of brass gears cut to order to solve an otherwise impossible issue for many modellers.  Heljan either could not, or would not, do so.  The full details are on the G0G forum, including incidence rate & affected models.

 

I believe the subject was discussed on this forum way back when the A3 & A4 were announced, and I recall a response, possibly by Dave saying words to the effect of the problem would not affect these models.

 

it is extremely unlikely that the factory has any parts “lying around”.  I would strongly suspect that such spare as exist will have been shipped with the locos.  The factory will be making something else already.  Maybe models for another railway company in Europe or the US, maybe r/c toys or drones for next Christmas, maybe something entirely unrelated, like hair dryers, or smart meters, or bits of microwave or some other consumer product.  Anything with screws, glue, printed circuits and plastic mouldings.

 

I could be wrong of course, but I wouldn’t hold your breath!

 

atb

Simon

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The a4s are in production still so it would be quite straight forward to make extra  hand rails now.rather than get a drone of complaints later .fitting afew hand rails is easy. I've meet young moddlers. Who can do it so an adult can .I'll willingly fit them for any one.and yes free of charge way because I can and I enjoy helping others.

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Dear hattons Dave if you read this please .can you supply matching hand rails for the a4s. And let every one know if we fitted them would it affect the warante. I do believe that it only covers for mechanical problems.not cosmetic damage done by customers  . Thank you.

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On 27/11/2019 at 04:20, jay*bobble said:

I would say I am lucky that my fs runs nice .I totally striped mine down and rebuilt it now bits n bobs all fit nice a fiddley  job but worth time that it took all day .     Soon be finished with the cosmetic up grades . Photos to come when its done.

Any photo yet of your rebuilt / cosmetic upgraded FS/

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14 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

The cost is not minimal to Hattons. As others have explained.

 

A minor omission in a locomotive from a supplier that has a "history" of errors in its range, is hardly likely to lead to a massive customer revolt. 

 

Do they even see it as a problem?

 

Bernard

Cost perhaps not in this case , that does'nt excuse the faults / poor quality seen so far on another Heljan product .

 

As to customer revolt only Hattons/Heljan will know the answer now or in the future. They will see it as a major problem, if the products do not sell, they can only get away with making such models for so long, before people go elsewhere with their money.

 

Having bought a Heljan 4mm O2, it is not an experience I am very likely to ever repeat. They ended up selling the O2's for half or less r.r.p price. Quite sad for everybody.

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Matching handrail knobs:

I suppose anyone bothered *could* remove all cabside/tender front handrails and replace with their own?

Those would then match and be far enough from other handrails so it won't bother folk?

 

I'm making the assumption here that anyone that bothered is a competent enough modeller. Maybe I'm  wrong.

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Having read the threads on here about the A3 and all the faults it seems to be suffering with I'm not very impressed with the quality of the model. Having purchased other 'O' gauge Heljan products I have to say the A3 is not alone, I have some of their Class'B' tankers all of which have suffered with bits dropping off!. Nearly all the buffers have come off and they will not fit back on and tomorrow I'm having to travel up to Northumberland to pick up my Heljan Deltic and Class 20 from a friend who's kindly replaced broken gears in both locos for me the. The Deltiic had only done a very small mileage (running in) This exercise has cost me close on £100!!!

I have to say well done to Hattons for getting involved with such a huge undertaking and I'm sure behind closed doors they'll be pulling their hair out (if they have any left) over all these problems.

Heljan really do need to sort out their Quality control.

Thanks

silverlink

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On 03/12/2019 at 19:19, Simond said:

If you want an example, then please refer to the history of Heljan 7mm diesel models with gear failures.  

 

There were many failures of certain models, spares were available for a while, then were no longer available.  

Which particular models are these then? Replacements have always been orderable across the range from Heljans spares distributor, Howes of Oxford.

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For those of you have asked to see my cosmetic upgrade of my FS . I have to get the rain strip painted and then I'll post photos.i have made front steps from plasticard. And picked out window frames ect.air brake pipes fitted using Heljan parts .looking good .

 

 

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21 minutes ago, blueeighties said:

Which particular models are these then? Replacements have always been orderable across the range from Heljans spares distributor, Howes of Oxford.

 

Lee,

 

the classes concerned were 

 

classes 26 & 33
- class 31
- classes 35 (hymek)/37 and 47

 

I don't have convenient access to the stats, though they’re in a thread that ran from May 2017 to this summer on the Guild forum, I understand that around one hundred people were affected.  Replacement gears were arranged by Jim Snowdon, I believe they were brass, and around £66 per set, doing both bogies of affected locos.

 

https://www.gaugeoguild.com/xenforo/index.php?threads/Heljan-gears.384/

 

That thread refers to “a litany of complaints on RMWeb” so I guess it’s not news.

 

I understand that spares were not available, hence the considerable efforts that were taken to keep a fair number of locos on the road.  

 

I should say say that I have no skin in the game, I only have two diesels, one is a diminutive Ixion 0-4-0, the other is a “Mavis” that I built for my son in approximately 2001, on an Atlas chassis. The GWR didn’t really go in for Pacifics, and they’d be somewhat out of place on a Welsh terminus.

 

atb

Simon

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Simond said:

I understand that spares were not available, hence the considerable efforts that were taken to keep a fair number of locos on the road.  

 

The GWR didn’t really go in for Pacifics, and they’d be somewhat out of place on a Welsh terminus.

 

 

Agreed, they were definitely out of stock for a time.

 

So absolutely no chance of you buying, say, a big red Dutchess then?!

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Sum of us now seem to have details from the subject in hand .Heljan locos are to heavey  for nylon gears there is the problem.at least the a3s have brass ones .and thay are the there'd loco made by Heljan good body's poor mechanism. Poor qc the next batch of a3s will b spot on I bet.hattons will put them right .

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