Jump to content

Help please on how to model these windows


Recommended Posts

Hi everyone

 

I'm looking for suggestions as to how you would go about modelling the windows in the picture below - its my next project for Tavistock.  In the past I have used embossed plasticard but this time I am contemplating Scalescenes printed papers but with either way I'd appreciate some ideas as to how best to get brick window surrounds that are flush with the adjacent stone walls.  In 2mm scale I calculate the windows will be only approx. 9mm x 12 or 13mm.

 

Thanks for any help you can give

 

John

 

John Brenchley

Perth, Western Australia

 

post-13676-0-34902700-1470360347_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably the best way would be to get the scalescenes image into a paint/drawing program and edit in the brickwork from a brick sheet image, then print it in one go.

 

For the windows themselves, Brassmasters do some lovely etches for sash windows (complete with overlap):

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/etched_windows_prices_specs_2mm.htm

 

Sheet L is probably what you want. Measure them and make your window apertures to match them.

 

I used their etches here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/779/entry-17521-freshwater-gets-a-station-building/

 

Ian Morgan

Hampshire

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ian and Nick for those ideas.

 

One thought I have had is to cut out the brick layer and then glue it on top of the stone sheet.  To get a flush appearance I could then try scanning or copying and reprinting, hopefully without too much of a loss in quality.

 

Best wishes

 

John 

Link to post
Share on other sites

John,

 

How about cutting the openings for the windows large enough to include the brick surrounds to the frames and then constructing the frames and the surrounds together so that they slot into the openings - I did something similar for the windows for Lightcliffe station building.

 

IMG_0470_zpsztjjlvbx.jpg

 

Regards,

 

David

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I added some bricks around a couple of the windows on a stone warehouse. Both stone & bricks are Scalescenes papers, the bricks were just cut to shape and layered over the top.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58888-treamble-branch-line-penhale-military-camp/?p=1443597

 

You could paint the card wall first, to a colour to match the stone papers, fix the paper to the wall, but not sticking it down around the window opening, then overlay the brick paper on the stone paper and cut both together. Any gaps should be 'hidden' by the painted card.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be getting photoshop out and editing the brick and stone files together, so as to print the images off in one go as suggested by Ian. 

 

In an idea world I would get a square on photo of the building and work from that, I know that this is not possible for you to do personally given where you are but there might be someone who lives close enough (I don't) to take these photos for you. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be getting photoshop out and editing the brick and stone files together, so as to print the images off in one go as suggested by Ian. 

 

In an idea world I would get a square on photo of the building and work from that, I know that this is not possible for you to do personally given where you are but there might be someone who lives close enough (I don't) to take these photos for you. 

 

It might be possible to use Google street view to get suitable photos - we've done that occasionally for St Ruth (Penzance). 

 

post-12089-0-61522700-1470673301_thumb.jpg

post-12089-0-12541500-1470673484_thumb.jpg

 

Ian

Edited by Ian Smith
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone

 

I'm looking for suggestions as to how you would go about modelling the windows in the picture below - its my next project for Tavistock.  In the past I have used embossed plasticard but this time I am contemplating Scalescenes printed papers but with either way I'd appreciate some ideas as to how best to get brick window surrounds that are flush with the adjacent stone walls.  In 2mm scale I calculate the windows will be only approx. 9mm x 12 or 13mm.

 

Thanks for any help you can give

 

John

 

John Brenchley

Perth, Western Australia

 

 

John,

What I have done in similar circumstances is just paint the bricks on to the stone paper. Mix up a range of two or three colours (acrylic or Matt enamel) and get stuck in with a 000 sable.

Best wishes,

John

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for your further suggestions.

 

Creating each side of the building on the computer and then printing might be the way to go.

 

I haven't used Photoshop or similar before although my daughter did as part of her graphic design degree a few years ago.

 

Its quite expensive and there seem to be several versions available now - what do people recommend please - is Photoshop overkill and might something more basic be sufficient - if so, what?

 

Also, I have heard that there is software available that can square up architectural photos that were not taken square on - would this also be an option perhaps?

 

Thanks

 

John

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi John,

 

For simple cropping and adding the bricks around the windows, you can use Paint (it comes with all versions of Windows). For something a bit more capable, free and still reasonably simple to use take a look at www.getpaint.net/

 

 

Also, I have heard that there is software available that can square up architectural photos

 

I use GIMP (free from http://www.gimp.org/)which takes a bit of getting used to, but has some very high-end features and pretty good help online. When I needed to square up a few photos it didn't take long to find an article that walked me through it in simple steps.

 

Cheers,

 

James.

 

(edited to fix weird URL formatting)

Edited by Skippy
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for your further suggestions.

 

Creating each side of the building on the computer and then printing might be the way to go.

 

I haven't used Photoshop or similar before although my daughter did as part of her graphic design degree a few years ago.

 

Its quite expensive and there seem to be several versions available now - what do people recommend please - is Photoshop overkill and might something more basic be sufficient - if so, what?

 

Also, I have heard that there is software available that can square up architectural photos that were not taken square on - would this also be an option perhaps?

 

Thanks

 

John

 

There is software around that can 'straighten' distorted photos due to lens (pincussion or barrel) distortion - PTLens is one - and many newer cameras come with firmware to correct lens issues, but correcting photos taken at an angle/with perspective are awkward to make flat and correctly proportioned for re-production, (correcting converging verticals etc).

 

Another factor to consider with printed papers is allowing for the depth of the window openings to the reveals. It can be awkward covering deep openings - you can't cover all four sides without gaps in the corners just using the front overlay sheet - and having struggled with this in the past I would say J BS's suggestion is the one to follow.

 

This is the best I managed to achieve using overlays, all the printed sheets being A4 label sheets then stuck onto the base building made using mount board. You can see the edge of the overlays - all the grey brick and window surrounds - in some shots. Might give you some ideas though.

 

 

post-12706-0-95865300-1470729821.jpg

 

post-12706-0-86528500-1470729836.jpg

 

 

Izzy

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I found it much easier to do it full size. I think printing out the photo to the right size will probably be the easiest. Scribing the bricks and the stones then painting them individually would work but might damage your sanity. For me any trying to cut out the stones and bricks from embossed card would be very difficult to get right.

Don

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the further suggestions and photos

 

I've had a play around in both Paint.net and Gimp and am currently trying to create the various sides in Gimp.

 

I've created the window surrounds but am struggling to get these to the correct size in comparison to the background stone layer and maintain suitable resolutions for both layers - a bit of a learning curve for these programs.

 

Best wishes

 

John

Link to post
Share on other sites

One further idea, is to contact John at Scalescenes, explain what your trying to to do and ask if you could commission him to create it.

That's what I did with the tunnel/bridge arches embedded into standard brick sheet which I used on Greenwood cutting

He might say no, but then again an email is a lot quicker than trying to learn a new software package

Edited by StuartM
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had a look at this thread to try to deduce the difference between very detailed scratch built N gauge and 2mm fine scale - apart from wheels and making your own track which is the limit of my knowledge.

 

Is using commercially available brass etchings for windows a "crime" in 2mm fine scale? Peedie Models make a big range of 2mm scale etched brass windows (and other things like doors) that I use for N gauge. They also are quick because you don't have to send cheques by snail mail - use credit card online.

 

www.peediemodels.com

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the etched windows are good enough for you use them. There is no crime in using anything. What usually happens is the clever ones make such good models that it spurs the rest of us on. The 2mm Scale Association pre-dates N gauge. When the first Arnold N gauge stuff came out the wheels especially were horrid. It is only in recent years that N gauge stuff has started to look reasonable. However the Peco track still has flangeways to cope with older models. If you are building track you may as well build in in 2mFS. True you need to sort your stock  out but a lot of N gauge stuff has the body mounted too high to cope with the very tight curves expected to be usable in N. If you are going to do detaled scratch builds the 2mm Association has a lot of stuff to make life easier.

Don

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 months later...

Thanks everyone for the ideas above

 

After an abortive attempt at using GIMP, I have now downloaded a 30 day trial of Photoshop and am getting on much better - I may well end up buying a full version.

 

I've created a brick and stone layers that I will print out together.  There will then be a sandwich" layer that will have the window and doors cut out and allow me to wrap the sides of the bricks round the vertical face of the openings.  A final rear layer will have printed windows and doors to show through the openings - I decided to try printing images of some of the actual windows rather than using glass or cobol  and trying to model the incredibly narrow window frames.  I'll post some pictures when I print out the layers.

 

In the mean time, I have a question about the photo below - at some stage it seems that a side wall and some of the rear of the building has been covered by what I have always called pebbledash.  Also some of the windows look to have had a stone (or maybe fake stone) surround added instead of the original bricks.

 

My question is - "when did pebbledash start being used?"  The building is intended to be modelled as it might have looked in approx. 1936.  My gut feeling is that the pebbledash and other modifications would have occurred after that time, maybe post WW2.  What do others think please?

 

Thanks

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

 

 

post-13676-0-32239700-1485749275.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

You might be right about pebbledash becoming common around WW2. I recall in the early 50's my parents talking about 'Jerry built' houses that were constructed in the 40's using just breeze block walls with no cavity and rendered with fine pebbledash. We had lots around us and it does seem a feature of many houses built at this time, perhaps because of material shortages etc. Earlier buildings around me now -1920-30's brick built - do generally seem to use larger/coarser/more variable material in the rendering some have, but not all, so it may have started being used sometime in the mid-30's perhaps.

 

Izzy

Link to post
Share on other sites

For my two happ'orth I would use the stone work paper and cut it back to the window opening. No need to wrap it into the surround. Then paint on the bricks or decoration, as per JBS. That way the brick edge would be nice and sharp.

 

I have used two layers of reasonably thick clear plastic to represent sashes, with suitable styrene strip fill-ins for the lower sash runner and a styrene window frame for the opening. The sahes are represented by simply using a bow pen and enamel paint and drawing them on to the clear plastic sheet whilst still in the flat. Etched windows I find a bit of pane (ouch) as the plastic needs to be fixed by some means. Having said that, they are very good if using real glass.

 

Pebbledashing would need to be very understated, or you could end up with an effect like a flint rubble wall!

 

Tim

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the mean time, I have a question about the photo below - at some stage it seems that a side wall and some of the rear of the building has been covered by what I have always called pebbledash.  Also some of the windows look to have had a stone (or maybe fake stone) surround added instead of the original bricks.

 

My question is - "when did pebbledash start being used?"  The building is intended to be modelled as it might have looked in approx. 1936.  My gut feeling is that the pebbledash and other modifications would have occurred after that time, maybe post WW2.  What do others think please?

Brick built houses in Scotland were generally rendered to protect the brickwork from the weather (I'm talking common brick).  Many Victorian villas had a stone built frontage, and perhaps side walls depending on their situation regarding how visible they were to the public, but with the rear walls in rendered brick.

 

 

This shows you the two different methods of rendering - dry cast and wet cast.  The former can be with either pebbles or rough fine stone.  My parents 1930's bungalow had pebbles while our last house (1960's) had stones.

 

.......... Etched windows I find a bit of pane (ouch) as the plastic needs to be fixed by some means. Having said that, they are very good if using real glass.

The windows i had etched for the buildings on my diorama http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65499-whats-on-your-2mm-work-bench/page-61&do=findComment&comment=2562090 (plain on the office, sash on the warehouse) are designed in layers so that there is a pocket into which the 10thou glazing cat be slipped.  This also means that you can paint them before glazing and fitting them.

 

Jim 

Edited by Caley Jim
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for your thoughts on the pebbledash - it was hard to make up my mind but in the end I decided to stick with stone throughout and assume the pebbledash was an addition after my chosen modelling date.  I also decided that all windows would have the original brick surrounds with none of them painted white or replace with fake cladding.  I also decided that all the windows would have the original multiple small panes.

 

Although I can see that Tim's suggestion will give much sharper window corners, I didn't have any confidence in being able to paint individual bricks so have gone with the Photoshop print method folded round the windows with as sharp a fold as I could manage.

 

Although I would have preferred clear material for the windows with the frames painted on, the total number of panes and the thinness of the woodwork defeated me so again I went for the photo layer option.  This also had the advantage of incorporating nets and curtains.

 

Below is a JPEG image of the file I ended up with from Photoshop for the main front and two sides.

 

post-13676-0-82303700-1486873868_thumb.jpg

 

The centre layer was glued to a piece of card about 0.6mm think, then the windows and doors cut out.  The stone and brick layer was then added on the outside and the brickwork folded round the vertical edges of the windows.  Finally, the window layer was glued to the back and the whole thing strengthened with thick card on the inside and a floor to keep everything square.

 

The photos below show  progress so far with the three sides complete apart from needing window sills.

 

post-13676-0-96360400-1486874282_thumb.jpg

post-13676-0-96472800-1486874290_thumb.jpg

post-13676-0-24284200-1486874299_thumb.jpg

 

I think from a normal viewing distance the method of using Photoshop will give me a building that will look OK

 

Best wishes

 

John

  • Like 13
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.