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Clapham Jct to Exeter Milk trains in the 1950s


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Gents

 

I ve been attempting to make up a consist for a Clapham Jct to Exeter milk train around the early 1950s. I ve found a number of photos showing  sets of tankers, sometime with a Bogie B within the rake. I have found reference to there being a BCK or sometimes two also in the consist, as l understand these service were used as locals between certain stations

My problem is that the only photos l ve found are towards the 60s and only show BR Mk1 coaching stock.

 

 

My question is, prior to Mk1s being used, what would have been the more common BCK, Bulleid or Maunsell stock, and how would they be marshalled within the train?

 

Any help would be very much appreciated

 

Bob C

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Gents

 

I ve been attempting to make up a consist for a Clapham Jct to Exeter milk train around the early 1950s. I ve found a number of photos showing  sets of tankers, sometime with a Bogie B within the rake. I have found reference to there being a BCK or sometimes two also in the consist, as l understand these service were used as locals between certain stations

My problem is that the only photos l ve found are towards the 60s and only show BR Mk1 coaching stock.

 

 

My question is, prior to Mk1s being used, what would have been the more common BCK, Bulleid or Maunsell stock, and how would they be marshalled within the train?

 

 

Any help would be very much appreciated

 

Bob C

 

I ve been looking though passed RMweb posts and found some useful info, l have found a couple of reference’s to Stove R’s being favoured and used by the Southern region on these types of trains. I understand that these vehicles were LMS in origin, so when would then have migrated to the Southern?

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Nationalisation onwards. There were some 4-wheel van BY (as modelled by Hornby) which were also fitted with stoves, and saw use on milk trains. Such vans had an orangey-yellow panel on the guard's doors and on the top corners of the sides. There's a photo in David Gould's 'Southern Railway Passenger Vans', a volume which, despite its title, also covers milk tanks. The same book also has lots of info about specific workings, including those of milk trains.

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Nationalisation onwards. There were some 4-wheel van BY (as modelled by Hornby) which were also fitted with stoves, and saw use on milk trains. Such vans had an orangey-yellow panel on the guard's doors and on the top corners of the sides. There's a photo in David Gould's 'Southern Railway Passenger Vans', a volume which, despite its title, also covers milk tanks. The same book also has lots of info about specific workings, including those of milk trains.

 

 

Many Thanks for this info FC most useful.

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I think this photo shows you what you want

 

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p818743413/h5bb5df2a#h5bb5df2a

 

Tony

Nice. The coach would be next to the loco for two reasons; it could use the steam-heating supply from the loco, if one was present, and it would save it being attached/detached every time tanks were picked up or dropped off. I've seen photos where a stove-fitted van is used; the van had been at the back at the starting depot, but soon had a sizeable number of vehicles behind it as it picked up at several points.

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On the WR trains (and also I believe LMS) the guards accomodation was often in the middle of the train, not due to operational reasons, but because this gave a better ride for its occupant. I wonder if on the SR, bogie vehicles were preferred to 4 wheel B's?  However looking at the original of that photo of the SR train, the last vehicle is definately a bogie BY not a 4 wheeler of any type and it has periscope lookouts in the roof.

 

Tony

Edited by Rail-Online
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Nice. The coach would be next to the loco for two reasons; it could use the steam-heating supply from the loco, if one was present, and it would save it being attached/detached every time tanks were picked up or dropped off. I've seen photos where a stove-fitted van is used; the van had been at the back at the starting depot, but soon had a sizeable number of vehicles behind it as it picked up at several points.

Prior to (I think) 1964, there was a limitation on how many vehicles could be attached behind the brake van on fully fitted trains; any more had to be coupled inside.

 

I don't remember the exact number for certain but I think it was only 3 or 4.

 

John

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Hi Tony

 

Many thanks for the link. as they say a picture paints a thousand words!!  Am l right in thinking the leading coach is a Bulleid brake, with a 4 wheel SR van at the rear?

 

Bob C

No, the last vehicle is actually a bogie brake.

Cheers Tony

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No, the last vehicle is actually a bogie brake.

Cheers Tony

 

 

Hi Tony

 

Sorry to sound daft, but is that as in Queen Mary type brake or bogie "B" ?, suspect the latter. With regard to the Bulleid coach, would it be fair to guess its possibly a BCK?

 

Many thanks

 

Bob

Edited by Blobrick
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Bob,

The brake is a bogie B. I am no expert on Bullied coaches but it is a passenger brake. There is no yellow flash above the windows and no door markings visible so I guess it is a 3rd brake rather than a Compo brake (but as I say I am no expert on SR coaches and am open to correction!)

 

Tony

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Bob,

The brake is a bogie B. I am no expert on Bullied coaches but it is a passenger brake. There is no yellow flash above the windows and no door markings visible so I guess it is a 3rd brake rather than a Compo brake (but as I say I am no expert on SR coaches and am open to correction!)

 

Tony

This- https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/3550930457/in/album-72157603653607671/ -looks similar.

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Hi Tony

 

Many thanks for the link. as they say a picture paints a thousand words!!  Am l right in thinking the leading coach is a Bulleid brake, with a 4 wheel SR van at the rear?

 

Bob C

The Bulleid Coach is one of the 40 'loose' 6 compartment Brake Composites to SR Diagram 2406, numbered 6713-52 introduced during 1948. They are identifiable as having the centrally located toilet compartment rather than at the non brake end of the previous Brake composites that formed sets 63 to 75, and were also the last builds to have the shallower SR 10.1/2" deep window vents.

 

The van at the rear, as suggested by others, looks like a Bogie Van B to me.

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Sorry to sound daft, but is that as in Queen Mary type brake or bogie "B" ?, suspect the latter. With regard to the Bulleid coach, would it be fair to guess its possibly a BCK?

 

Not a daft question. Queen Marys did indeed turn up milk trains. Here is a picture of one on a milk train at Seaton although it is the 60s rather than the 50s.

 

post-887-0-66271600-1399669586.jpg

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The Bulleid Coach is one of the 40 'loose' 6 compartment Brake Composites to SR Diagram 2406, numbered 6713-52 introduced during 1948. They are identifiable as having the centrally located toilet compartment rather than at the non brake end of the previous Brake composites that formed sets 63 to 75, and were also the last builds to have the shallower SR 10.1/2" deep window vents.

 

The van at the rear, as suggested by others, looks like a Bogie Van B to me.

 

 

Many thanks for nailing this coach Graham, l am indebted to you!

 

bob C

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Bob,

The brake is a bogie B. I am no expert on Bullied coaches but it is a passenger brake. There is no yellow flash above the windows and no door markings visible so I guess it is a 3rd brake rather than a Compo brake (but as I say I am no expert on SR coaches and am open to correction!)

 

Tony

 

Thanks Tony that's a great help, you ve got better eyes than me. Graham Guz has kindly identified the coach, so all l have to do is wait for Bachmann to update their Bullied stock and l ll be a happy bunny!

 

Bob C

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If you look at the 73A Nine Elms Loco website, there's some footplate experience accounts of working the southern milk trains which you may find interesting. some pictures as well of the tanks being unloaded at Vauxhall.

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