RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted August 5, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 5, 2016 Gents I ve been attempting to make up a consist for a Clapham Jct to Exeter milk train around the early 1950s. I ve found a number of photos showing sets of tankers, sometime with a Bogie B within the rake. I have found reference to there being a BCK or sometimes two also in the consist, as l understand these service were used as locals between certain stations . My problem is that the only photos l ve found are towards the 60s and only show BR Mk1 coaching stock. My question is, prior to Mk1s being used, what would have been the more common BCK, Bulleid or Maunsell stock, and how would they be marshalled within the train? Any help would be very much appreciated Bob C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted August 6, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 6, 2016 Gents I ve been attempting to make up a consist for a Clapham Jct to Exeter milk train around the early 1950s. I ve found a number of photos showing sets of tankers, sometime with a Bogie B within the rake. I have found reference to there being a BCK or sometimes two also in the consist, as l understand these service were used as locals between certain stations . My problem is that the only photos l ve found are towards the 60s and only show BR Mk1 coaching stock. My question is, prior to Mk1s being used, what would have been the more common BCK, Bulleid or Maunsell stock, and how would they be marshalled within the train? Any help would be very much appreciated Bob C I ve been looking though passed RMweb posts and found some useful info, l have found a couple of reference’s to Stove R’s being favoured and used by the Southern region on these types of trains. I understand that these vehicles were LMS in origin, so when would then have migrated to the Southern? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Nationalisation onwards. There were some 4-wheel van BY (as modelled by Hornby) which were also fitted with stoves, and saw use on milk trains. Such vans had an orangey-yellow panel on the guard's doors and on the top corners of the sides. There's a photo in David Gould's 'Southern Railway Passenger Vans', a volume which, despite its title, also covers milk tanks. The same book also has lots of info about specific workings, including those of milk trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted August 6, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 6, 2016 Nationalisation onwards. There were some 4-wheel van BY (as modelled by Hornby) which were also fitted with stoves, and saw use on milk trains. Such vans had an orangey-yellow panel on the guard's doors and on the top corners of the sides. There's a photo in David Gould's 'Southern Railway Passenger Vans', a volume which, despite its title, also covers milk tanks. The same book also has lots of info about specific workings, including those of milk trains. Many Thanks for this info FC most useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I think this photo shows you what you want http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p818743413/h5bb5df2a#h5bb5df2a Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I think this photo shows you what you want http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p818743413/h5bb5df2a#h5bb5df2a Tony Nice. The coach would be next to the loco for two reasons; it could use the steam-heating supply from the loco, if one was present, and it would save it being attached/detached every time tanks were picked up or dropped off. I've seen photos where a stove-fitted van is used; the van had been at the back at the starting depot, but soon had a sizeable number of vehicles behind it as it picked up at several points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 On the WR trains (and also I believe LMS) the guards accomodation was often in the middle of the train, not due to operational reasons, but because this gave a better ride for its occupant. I wonder if on the SR, bogie vehicles were preferred to 4 wheel B's? However looking at the original of that photo of the SR train, the last vehicle is definately a bogie BY not a 4 wheeler of any type and it has periscope lookouts in the roof. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 8, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2016 Nice. The coach would be next to the loco for two reasons; it could use the steam-heating supply from the loco, if one was present, and it would save it being attached/detached every time tanks were picked up or dropped off. I've seen photos where a stove-fitted van is used; the van had been at the back at the starting depot, but soon had a sizeable number of vehicles behind it as it picked up at several points. Prior to (I think) 1964, there was a limitation on how many vehicles could be attached behind the brake van on fully fitted trains; any more had to be coupled inside. I don't remember the exact number for certain but I think it was only 3 or 4. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted August 9, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2016 I think this photo shows you what you want http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p818743413/h5bb5df2a#h5bb5df2a Tony Hi Tony Many thanks for the link. as they say a picture paints a thousand words!! Am l right in thinking the leading coach is a Bulleid brake, with a 4 wheel SR van at the rear? Bob C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Hi Tony Many thanks for the link. as they say a picture paints a thousand words!! Am l right in thinking the leading coach is a Bulleid brake, with a 4 wheel SR van at the rear? Bob C No, the last vehicle is actually a bogie brake. Cheers Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold grandadbob Posted August 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2016 Is this any help? http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/404.HTML Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted August 10, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2016 No, the last vehicle is actually a bogie brake. Cheers Tony Hi Tony Sorry to sound daft, but is that as in Queen Mary type brake or bogie "B" ?, suspect the latter. With regard to the Bulleid coach, would it be fair to guess its possibly a BCK? Many thanks Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Bob, The brake is a bogie B. I am no expert on Bullied coaches but it is a passenger brake. There is no yellow flash above the windows and no door markings visible so I guess it is a 3rd brake rather than a Compo brake (but as I say I am no expert on SR coaches and am open to correction!) Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Bob, The brake is a bogie B. I am no expert on Bullied coaches but it is a passenger brake. There is no yellow flash above the windows and no door markings visible so I guess it is a 3rd brake rather than a Compo brake (but as I say I am no expert on SR coaches and am open to correction!) Tony This- https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/3550930457/in/album-72157603653607671/ -looks similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted August 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2016 Hi Tony Many thanks for the link. as they say a picture paints a thousand words!! Am l right in thinking the leading coach is a Bulleid brake, with a 4 wheel SR van at the rear? Bob C The Bulleid Coach is one of the 40 'loose' 6 compartment Brake Composites to SR Diagram 2406, numbered 6713-52 introduced during 1948. They are identifiable as having the centrally located toilet compartment rather than at the non brake end of the previous Brake composites that formed sets 63 to 75, and were also the last builds to have the shallower SR 10.1/2" deep window vents. The van at the rear, as suggested by others, looks like a Bogie Van B to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Sorry to sound daft, but is that as in Queen Mary type brake or bogie "B" ?, suspect the latter. With regard to the Bulleid coach, would it be fair to guess its possibly a BCK? Not a daft question. Queen Marys did indeed turn up milk trains. Here is a picture of one on a milk train at Seaton although it is the 60s rather than the 50s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted August 10, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2016 The Bulleid Coach is one of the 40 'loose' 6 compartment Brake Composites to SR Diagram 2406, numbered 6713-52 introduced during 1948. They are identifiable as having the centrally located toilet compartment rather than at the non brake end of the previous Brake composites that formed sets 63 to 75, and were also the last builds to have the shallower SR 10.1/2" deep window vents. The van at the rear, as suggested by others, looks like a Bogie Van B to me. Many thanks for nailing this coach Graham, l am indebted to you! bob C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted August 10, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2016 Bob, The brake is a bogie B. I am no expert on Bullied coaches but it is a passenger brake. There is no yellow flash above the windows and no door markings visible so I guess it is a 3rd brake rather than a Compo brake (but as I say I am no expert on SR coaches and am open to correction!) Tony Thanks Tony that's a great help, you ve got better eyes than me. Graham Guz has kindly identified the coach, so all l have to do is wait for Bachmann to update their Bullied stock and l ll be a happy bunny! Bob C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If you look at the 73A Nine Elms Loco website, there's some footplate experience accounts of working the southern milk trains which you may find interesting. some pictures as well of the tanks being unloaded at Vauxhall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.