Britains only Mainline Railway is in the Midlands?

[Enterprisingwestern]

Surely the clue is in the name that the Torbay And Dartmouth used for the vast majority of it's existence, which is The Kingswear Branch.

 

To be a mainline then you have to go from one major place to another. Liverpool to Manchester, London to Birmingham and Nottingham to Leicester all count. Paignton to Kingswear, not so much.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

But does a village a few miles outside Nottingham to a village a few miles outside Liecester count?

 

Mike.

[Flipper]

I suspect the the public are capable of deciding what looks and feels like a main line to them, I am not convinced that some of the examples above would feature in their thoughts . . .

[Flipper]

But does a village a few miles outside Nottingham to a village a few miles outside Liecester count?

 

Mike.

Do you have to preserve the entirity of something for it to be valid then ? How many heritage lines encompass the whole length of the pre-closure route ?

 

P.S. Controversially, the southern terminus of the preserved GCR is inside the city boundary, not a few miles outside.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Flipper

[Reorte]

Do you have to preserve the entirity of something for it to be valid then ? How many heritage lines encompass the whole length of the pre-closure route ?

There's the Keighley and Worth Valley (definitely not a mainline though).

[Zomboid]

I’m glad 28xx set the record straight re the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway, part of the old GWR’s mainline from Birmingham to the south west.

 

Stephen

It doesn't really have that main line feel though, being all wayside stations in the Cotswolds, whereas Loughborough Central is undeniably a fairly significant main line location.

 

There's more to a "main line" than the number of tracks though. There's loads of 2 track branch lines around the country (eg Norwich to Lowestoft), and then there's the single track Highland main line.

[Zomboid]

There's the Keighley and Worth Valley (definitely not a mainline though).

Swanage, too.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I would count East Grinstead to Horsted Keynes as a mainline too.

[sulzer27jd]

I suspect the the public are capable of deciding what looks and feels like a main line to them, I am not convinced that some of the examples above would feature in their thoughts . . .

 

I suspect the public, force-fed a diet of inaccurate jibberish by the media are, for the most part, incorrect in almost everything they think they know about railways.

[Zomboid]

I would count East Grinstead to Horsted Keynes as a mainline too.

Whilst I'd count South Croydon to East Grinstead as a branch line.

 

Which only really shows that there's no way this could ever be universally agreed...

[28XX]

It doesn't really have that main line feel though, being all wayside stations in the Cotswolds, whereas Loughborough Central is undeniably a fairly significant main line location.

 

There's more to a "main line" than the number of tracks though. There's loads of 2 track branch lines around the country (eg Norwich to Lowestoft), and then there's the single track Highland main line.

Unfortunately the GWSR suffers from a branch line mentality, and seems unable to capitalise on the historical truth of their line’s provenance.

[Zomboid]

I suppose they're not the only ones. The Nene Valley, Bluebell and Embsay & Bolton Abbey come to mind immediately as railways which could, if they so wished, create a more main line feel, although I don't think the last 2 at least were ever particularly important routes.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Zomboid

[pom-pom]

It doesn't really have that main line feel though, being all wayside stations in the Cotswolds, whereas Loughborough Central is undeniably a fairly significant main line location.

 

There's more to a "main line" than the number of tracks though. There's loads of 2 track branch lines around the country (eg Norwich to Lowestoft), and then there's the single track Highland main line.

 

Although the preserved section of the GCR is an ex. mainline there can be a loss of the 'mainline feel' due to the restriction of most trains to a branchline 25 mph on what was one of the fastest sections of the line (speeds of 80 mph through Loughborough were common). Unfortunately, it could be also be argued that the Loughborough 'gap' reduced to a single track and deviated round a carpark(!) may also add to this loss of a 'mainline feel'. But we are lucky indeed to have what we have and all credit is due. It's also useful to bear in mind that whilst railway enthusiasts may want a retention of a 'mainline feel' the families that come for a day out and largely fund the existence of the railway perhaps don't and certainly not the speeds associated with a mainline; they want to be entertained with sights, activities and food, an experience. In this respect, the stations along the line could be said to have lost that typical bleak, remote 'mainline GCR feel'... they are now more overly decorated, slightly twee, a synthesised nostalgia aimed perhaps at pulling in those revenue generating family visitors. I have every faith that the GCR are doing exactly what's needed to attract suitable revenue. And let's face it, those stations do look prettier than they ever have done!

[Rivercider]

Although I have not visited all the lines mentioned so far, (I have been on most) the only one that definitely 'felt' main line was the GCR.

I went there last week for the model railway weekend, and Loughborough definitely had bustling feel about it.

 

While the Gloucestershire and Warwickshire has the potential to be a main line it did not feel that was what they were trying to recreate on my visit,.

 

cheers

[PenrithBeacon]

The G/WR is a former mainline railway, but it has always seemed to be a bit lost without its second track. It just doesn't look and feel right. They lost a great opportunity when they decided to extend and not to double the track.

[pom-pom]

The G/WR is a former mainline railway, but it has always seemed to be a bit lost without its second track. It just doesn't look and feel right. They lost a great opportunity when they decided to extend and not to double the track.

 

Perhaps it's wiser to extend rather than double initially as the latter can always be done later whereas the former is not always possible as the formation dissolves away under road-building and house-building encroachments...

[Dava]

Although the preserved section of the GCR is an ex. mainline there can be a loss of the 'mainline feel' due to the restriction of most trains to a branchline 25 mph on what was one of the fastest sections of the line (speeds of 80 mph through Loughborough were common). Unfortunately, it could be also be argued that the Loughborough 'gap' reduced to a single track and deviated round a carpark(!) may also add to this loss of a 'mainline feel'. But we are lucky indeed to have what we have and all credit is due. It's also useful to bear in mind that whilst railway enthusiasts may want a retention of a 'mainline feel' the families that come for a day out and largely fund the existence of the railway perhaps don't and certainly not the speeds associated with a mainline; they want to be entertained with sights, activities and food, an experience. In this respect, the stations along the line could be said to have lost that typical bleak, remote 'mainline GCR feel'... they are now more overly decorated, slightly twee, a synthesised nostalgia aimed perhaps at pulling in those revenue generating family visitors. I have every faith that the GCR are doing exactly what's needed to attract suitable revenue. And let's face it, those stations do look prettier than they ever have done!

The GCR link across the MML at Loughborough isn't being deviated round a car park, it will go over it. The slight change in alignment of the new MML bridge and linked structures is due to the loss of the previous alignment and the need to get the best angle across the MML. Most people won't notice it. Yes there will be a speed restriction, but the latest plan is to run on the original double track formation right up to the canal bridge, for which there is currently a restoration appeal.

 

And wouldn't it be great to have a 'Pom-pom' [J11] new-build loco to run on it...

 

Dava

[Zomboid]

I think that comes down to the fact that having a single track link on a new alignment is better than *not* having 2 tracks on the original alignment.

 

I do wonder what the future will hold for the GCRN when the gap is bridged. The capacity south of Loughborough is massively greater than the capacity of the northern section - will more double track be built between (for example) Rushcliffe and Loughborough? Will the third side of the triangle go in?

[pom-pom]

The GCR link across the MML at Loughborough isn't being deviated round a car park, it will go over it. The slight change in alignment of the new MML bridge and linked structures is due to the loss of the previous alignment and the need to get the best angle across the MML. Most people won't notice it. Yes there will be a speed restriction, but the latest plan is to run on the original double track formation right up to the canal bridge, for which there is currently a restoration appeal.

 

And wouldn't it be great to have a 'Pom-pom' [J11] new-build loco to run on it...

 

Dava

 

Yes, I understand, thanks. It would seem to be some small miracle that more of the alignment was not lost over the years in what is a mostly urban environment. I expect the important thing is to reinstate the formation in any form just to protect the route. As is the nature of many railway preservation activities involving the line itself, progress can often seem akin in speed to geological processes, so with reastablishment of the route all these 'nice to haves' such as double-track and even a double bridge over the Midland can be potential projects for the future and indeed future generations perhaps.

 

A J11 would be grand... although I do believe we're getting a D7!

[009 micro modeller]

I think that comes down to the fact that having a single track link on a new alignment is better than *not* having 2 tracks on the original alignment.

 

I do wonder what the future will hold for the GCRN when the gap is bridged. The capacity south of Loughborough is massively greater than the capacity of the northern section - will more double track be built between (for example) Rushcliffe and Loughborough? Will the third side of the triangle go in?

I'm not criticising the GCR, as they have clearly thought about the decision to go for a single track, but out of interest is there any possibility of doubling in future over the bridge (and would this ever become operationally necessary anyway)?

[Dava]

The land corridor for the new embankment between the Brook and Précispark is too narrow for double track and there is really no possibility of a double track MML bridge. It is all going to cost a lot of money [xGBP millions] for single track and most of that money has yet to be raised.

 

Doubling the section north of the MML bridge is technically possible but financial reality applies here also.

 

Dava

[pheaton]

The G/WR is a former mainline railway, but it has always seemed to be a bit lost without its second track. It just doesn't look and feel right. They lost a great opportunity when they decided to extend and not to double the track.

The nature of the repairs completed to the bank outside of broadway mean its currently not possible to re-instate a double track line between broadway and toddington, going south to Winchcombe, its possible to double track, but further improvements to bank at chicken curve would be required i seem to recall, Winchcombe to Gotherington would require some investment in a few of the bridges, Gotherington to Cheltenham feasible yes...Dont forget its not just the bridges you can see but there 10s of culverts and occupation bridges you dont see!

 

But why would do you need to? In the case of the GWR (and ive been a working volunteer there for over 15 years)  You are doubling your permanent way costs for little return, the railway runs with 3x 8 coach rakes, and a DMU which only run in all together in the peak season with plenty of slack. Platform 2 at cheltenham and Platform 2 at broadway are currently not in use, with those in use the number of paths available will increase but still nowhere near enough t justify double tracking the line....

 

Good on the GCR for double tracking...but i think its fairly common knowledge that it costs an exceptional amount of money to keep that infrastructure going compared with single track.

Edited June 25, 2018 by pheaton

[Dava]

Double track really pays off for the GCR on gala days with the ability to run trains with as little as 10 minute intervals between Loughborough and Rothley for passenger and Swithland Sidings for freights. It's a unique spectacle with up to 7 trains in traffic, but you have to attract lots of paying visitors to make it viable and staff to operate them.

 

Dava

[LBRJ]

The former Kingswear (now Paignton!) line was/is known as "The Branch" because it is not the mainline to Plymouth and beyond when talking about heading west from Newton Abbot.

It doesn't mean it is a branch line  - confusing maybe, but simpler than "The secondary mainline that diverges at the Aller Divergence" (as Aller Junction is known now)

Edited June 25, 2018 by LBRJ

[StephenB]

Platform 2 at Cheltenham Racecourse does get used, but only when requires such as the recent Cotswold Steam Fair.

 

Steohen

[bike2steam]

Or has there been a little misunderstanding that the GCR now is (part) main-line certificated, whereas all the other heritage lines are restricted by todays equivalent of the LRO.