Steam Tramways - Rural - Great Britain & Ireland

[Nearholmer]

Yes, well, having used that very tram/train interchange, I can tell you that it lacks the polish that the graphic suggests ...... aggressive begging and a stoned addict on the pavement were significant features.

[laurenceb]

Ashby Station (MR) and the Burton and Ashby Light Railways?

[Orion]

The Edenham & Little Bytham Railway finished in the forecourt of the GNR station. Not a tramway as such, but tramways hardly existed, if at all that far back.

 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/EDENHAM-LITTLE-BYTHAM-RAILWAY/i-sddVTkL

 

The Sandy & Potton may be another, but I can't find a plan.

[Northroader]

Sorry to revive painful memories, Kevin, I know what you’re thinking of, Welshpool is probably the nearest. I’ve just done a bit of a trawl round Ireland, but there it seems to be a central station building with main line platform one side, tramway on the other, still a very formal look. Places like the Clogher Valley or Schull. Nothing to do with interchanges, but I also snitched a look at Dublin & Blessington, and Dublin & Lucan. God, the inspiration for modelling there, if only the time was available!

[Andy Kirkham]

Chard Junction was, to some extent, in that style

 

The branch platform was in the station forecourt, as you can see in post #4 in this thread

 

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83604-chard-junction-station/

Edited September 7, 2018 by Andy Kirkham

[dolydd]

Or, worsened it considerably, by saddling them with a capital burden on which to pay dividends or interest.

 

It would be nice to have an English example of one of those ‘forecourt termini’ that rural roadside tramways in France and elsewhere had at ‘main line’ stations, though. I can’t think of one like that in this country, and one outside Rye station would be very nice.

 

PS: maybe Wantage Road qualifies?

[dolydd]

In Wales of course and horsedrawn, but the Pwllheli town tram was a good comparitor to the French model.

[Wickham Green]

There was nearly a narrow gauge roadside steam tramway in Cambridgeshire - the Oakington and Cottenham Light Railway.

 

It received Parliamentary authorisation and the deposited plans are in the Cambridgeshire Archive.

 

It was intended to link the Cottenham Lode, (used for barge navigation from the east coast ports), to the then-new railway from Cambridge to March via Oakington.

 

Unfortunately, the barge traffic waned, and the roads were improved, before the railway could be built.

 

Perhaps as well, though; steam trains running down the centre of Cottenham High Street would have caused chaos with the local horse-drawn traffic, and a terminus / wharf adjacent to the Vicarage would not have gone down well with the local clergy!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

..... rather depends on your clergy ...... someone like Teddy Boston would have extended the track INTO the vicarage grounds !

[DLT]

Fascinating thread, why have I only just found it....

Cheers, Dave.

[Nearholmer]

Resurrecting an old thread.........

 

One of the reasons that I like roadside steam tramways, actual and projected, is that they make excellent bike rides and/or walks, and today I was intending to cycle one that was never built, but a stinking cold and horrible weather have put paid to that idea, so here are some maps instead.

 

There were multiple plans to extend the Brill Tramway, to become a proper railway known as the Oxford, Aylesbury & Metropolitan Junction, but by the mid-1880s everyone involved had worked out that this would be too costly, because of the need for a long tunnel to avoid steep gradients, so in 1887/88 the thing was re-thought as a roadside tramway.

 

On the topographic map, it would have run from top-right (the arrow points to very roughly the location of Brill station) to bottom left, which is St Clement's in Oxford, mostly following roads. The problem of gradients is immediately apparent, irrespective of which road was to be followed!

 

At the Oxford end, the route in via Headington was (again very roughly) as shown on the middle map, with the terminus opposite the junction of New Street and George Street ..... on this 1930s map there are actually gaps between buildings to let it through, and there are ghosts of the gaps even now, although the area has been much developed since 1887. 

 

The earlier "railway" plans envisaged the line pushing further westward, almost to the foot of Magdalen Bridge, to a station at the rear of 12 Cherwell Street (not visible on these map extracts), but the planning phase coincided with the transformation of the district from fields to housing, so the tramway terminus had to be further out to avoid huge costs and huge arguments.

 

I'd love to build a layout based on this end of the tramway. I imagine a rather Wantage-esque passenger terminus, and possibly a goods yard and engine shed in the area behind the church. The back scene would be pretty special as it would show the buildings of central Oxford, across the water meadows.

 

Motive power was allowed, by the Act, to be steam, electric, or other, so imagination could run riot - I think I would favour electric, especially given the likely gradients.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Just imagine how the presence of a tramway, running between the river and the church, would improve this rather romanticised view.

 

The loco is Isle of Man Tramways & Electric Power Company Ltd ('Manx Electric') No.23 in its original form, and a standard-gauge version of this would be ideal, I think.

 

Or, if, as seems very probable, the tramway ran out of money before it could buy the electrification infrastructure, something like this Bideford, Westward Ho!, and Appledore loco, shown here in a state of partial undress.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

I suppose a steeple cab loco to serve the city of dreaming spires is quite permissible. Otherwise fit rail wheels on a bullnose?

[Nearholmer]

Very attractive nose, but I do wonder whether, even by Colonel Stephens' railbus standards, such a vehicle might be a tad under-powered for the likely gradients........ alright, perhaps, if the passenger load was about six people.

[fezza]

I discovered that interesting Oxford scheme years ago when at university there. The Brill Tramway book has more details. I always thought it would be an excellent riverside BLT with the bridge and colleges in the background. Do post more if you get round to building it. 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, fezza said:

I discovered that interesting Oxford scheme years ago when at university there. The Brill Tramway book has more details. I always thought it would be an excellent riverside BLT with the bridge and colleges in the background. Do post more if you get round to building it. 

 

If you've ever seen the pamphlet "Rails to Cambridge", published by The Cambridge Collection, you will know that many attractive sites near to the River Cam and the Colleges were proposed for railway stations in Cambridge.

 

As I suspect was the case in Oxford, the Colleges were having none of that - nor trains on the Sabbath - and the railways ended up with a six-days-a-week service to the outskirts of Cambridge.

 

Cambridge now has Sunday trains, but the station is still a longish walk, or a shorter taxi ride, from the city centre. Way back in the early years of the 20th Century, you could have taken a (horse) tram to the station, but the tramay closed when the Colleges vetoed unsightly overhead wires for electic trams.

 

The power of the Establishment was, and still is, everywhere!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Pacific231G]

On 15/03/2019 at 16:39, cctransuk said:

 

If you've ever seen the pamphlet "Rails to Cambridge", published by The Cambridge Collection, you will know that many attractive sites near to the River Cam and the Colleges were proposed for railway stations in Cambridge.

 

As I suspect was the case in Oxford, the Colleges were having none of that - nor trains on the Sabbath - and the railways ended up with a six-days-a-week service to the outskirts of Cambridge.

 

Cambridge now has Sunday trains, but the station is still a longish walk, or a shorter taxi ride, from the city centre. Way back in the early years of the 20th Century, you could have taken a (horse) tram to the station, but the tramay closed when the Colleges vetoed unsightly overhead wires for electic trams.

 

The power of the Establishment was, and still is, everywhere!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Oxford had four foot gauge horse trams until 1914 but proposals in 1907 to electrify it were opposed by the University even though they planned to use a conduit system like London's rather than overhead wires. The objection seems to have been to having any electricty in the High Street though how that was less desirable than petrol buses is beyond me. Perhaps there is no Latin word for electricity!  Oxford's cruciform layout (more so in earlier days than now ) would have made it ideal for trams with a couple of routes serving most of it. 

At Oxford, the University also opposed the building of the GWR's branch to the city with concerns that their students would use the railway to reach the fleshpots of London*  When it became clear that the students were simply travelling by road  the relatively short distance to the nearest station (Steventon ISTR) ,where the University had no sway, they dropped their opposition  on condition that the proctors would be allowed to patrol the station. The original station was a terminus a couple of hundred yards to the west of Folly Bridge that frustratingly I've been completely unable to find a track plan for.  

Growing up in Oxford as "town" rather than "gown" I do remember the University having a rather negative effect on the life of city if you weren't on the inside.

 

*(For a while, Eton College managed to stop the GWR from having a station at Slough on similar grounds but, according to the town's online history site, trains "happened to stop" there and tickets could be bought from the North Star Tavern. Presumably this was even less desirable than the pupils simply going to a station)

Edited March 17, 2019 by Pacific231G

[Northroader]

They did manage to produce a poem in Latin to buses in the High.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Motor_Bus

Edited March 17, 2019 by Northroader

[lmsforever]

You can follow the Brill tram route from Quainton to the A41 and there used to be a shed across the road in a field that served as a station,sadly most of the route will be obliterated by HS2 and Quainton is being inconvenienced by the construction.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I've cycled all of the route, or the parallel lanes, except the bit through Westcott airfield, which is inaccessible and necessitates a diversion, involving a stiff climb up to the top of a hill, and a fast roar back down into the vale again. I even managed to cover much of the Church Siding/Kingswood branches, although the verdant growth made staying on the bike a tad challenging ..... walking would definitely be the more sensible option for the not-highway bits!

 

As far as I understand matters, only the QR to A41 bit will go under HS2, which still leaves a good bit further on that can be followed/seen.

 

The whole of the Aylesbury Vale area is really interesting to cycle, and incredibly peaceful for a place so close to London, and I strongly recommend anyone to explore it soon, because the combination of HS2 construction and a lot of planned housebuilding has the potential to turn what are now very quiet lanes into unpleasantly busy roads.

[Andy Kirkham]

On 17/03/2019 at 11:46, Northroader said:

They did manage to produce a poem in Latin to buses in the High.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Motor_Bus

...which I knew because George Behrend quoted it as chapter heading in Gone with Regret.

[Northroader]

You might not be the only one...

[micknich2003]

Drypool Steam Tram, Hull.

[Johann Marsbar]

On 15/03/2019 at 16:39, cctransuk said:

 

 Way back in the early years of the 20th Century, you could have taken a (horse) tram to the station, but the tramay closed when the Colleges vetoed unsightly overhead wires for electic trams.

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

At least one of the Cambridge horse trams did survive, and is nearing the end of a long restoration programme.......(photo taken last November)

 

 

The tram is at the Ipswich Transport Museum and was acquired as none of the similar Ipswich horse trams survive........

It has an interesting history, having started its life in Bath and ending up in Cambridge via Bradford, where it spent some time as a steam tram trailer!

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Johann Marsbar

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

At least one of the Cambridge horse trams did survive, and is nearing the end of a long restoration programme.......(photo taken last November)

 

 

The tram is at the Ipswich Transport Museum and was acquired as none of the similar Ipswich horse trams survive........

It has an interesting history, having started its life in Bath and ending up in Cambridge via Bradford, where it spent some time as a steam tram trailer!

 

 

Johann,

 

Very, very nice - I had no idea that it had survived.

 

I'm afraid that I was responsible for arranging the demolition of P. H. Allin's premises at 50 Burleigh Street !!

 

I made amends by arranging for the set of tram points from St. Mary's Street to be preserved.

 

I short slice of Cambridge tram rail does duty in my workshop as a paper-weight.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Nearholmer]

I still haven't found time on a dry day to explore the Brill to Oxford tramway route, but I returned to an old favourite today: Newport Pagnell to Olney.

 

Newport Pagnell is know to most as a motorway service area on the M1, but it is actually a pleasant small town, and Olney is an even pleasanter market town, and there were several attempts to connect the two.

 

NP had a very early branch from the LNWR, and quite a lot of earthwork (some still visible) and some bridge-building was done to extend that to Olney, but the idea was abandoned when Olney was connected to Bedford and Northampton by the Midland Railway.

 

A bit later, inspired by the W&SST, a 3'6" street tramway was started, and authority was granted to take it all the way to Wellingborough ....... a sort of mini-vicinal. Track was laid in several places, but the whole thing foundered because of arguments over who was accountable to upgrade a crumbling highway bridge over the river, and because the route through the village of Emberton looked unworkably challenging and the owner of the land that would have allowed a more sane route was mentally incapacitated, so couldn't be negotiated with.

 

Only three photos, I'm afraid.

 

1) The problematic curve in Emberton. The route was to have come down the street on the right, round the curve, and down the street on the left. Not a particularly tight curve by tramway standards, but it is combined with a fair gradient.

 

2) Most of Olney is a mellow-stone town of C18th buildings, but when the Midland arrived, a new Victorian bit was built in, oddly enough, Midland Road, and the rather ornate, but highly incongruous, Lodge Spark Plug factory was created. The tramway was supposed to run round this corner and up to the MR station.

 

3) The quality of the Victorian building in Midland Road is quite high, and I particularly like this building, which has some neat tile decoration ....... the tram should have puffed past the door, but never did.

 

The route has one long and reasonably high hill in it, and although track was laid in that section, I still can't believe that a steam tram would have coped with it. Onwards to Wellingborough are more long hills, but that bit was meant to be electrified, so would probably have worked ........ just that there were very few potential passengers, and not a huge amount of goods!

 

Kevin

Edited April 24, 2019 by Nearholmer