Photos of AC electrics

[Bomag]

2 hours ago, ianmacc said:

91s mk4s and 321s etc going to the breakers. I’m getting old!

 

Heathrow express 332 are also going and they are 10 years younger. Two of the TS 72414 and 72417 are the first vehicles from the 21st Century to get the chop as life expired.

[ianmacc]

14 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

Heathrow express 332 are also going and they are 10 years younger. Two of the TS 72414 and 72417 are the first vehicles from the 21st Century to get the chop as life expired.

I’m not sure how in the modern era of manufacturing standards vehicles that young can be considered life expired! 

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, ianmacc said:

I’m not sure how in the modern era of manufacturing standards vehicles that young can be considered life expired! 

 

I would have thought that, in this era of resisting our previous throwaway attitude, we would be re-purposing such assets rather than simply recycling them.

 

John Isherwood.

[Northmoor]

What a scandalous waste of assets we are about to witness in this country.  All so that governments can claim to have spent more on new trains than any previous one.  Which they will have done, by replacing things that didn't need replacing yet. It also means money will be unavailable for infrastructure schemes which would deliver modal shift of hundreds of thousands of daily journeys. 

This period will, in 50 years time, be seen as a missed opportunity almost matching that of the Modernisation Plan.

[Johnson Street IEMD]

 

Bumblebee2 (90029) leading Backbone (90039) and a former EWS now DB Shed 66024 into Crewe IEMD, via Crewe Station

 

 

[Bomag]

2 hours ago, ianmacc said:

I’m not sure how in the modern era of manufacturing standards vehicles that young can be considered life expired! 

 

A combination of small class size, limited technology (ATP), intensive running and maintenance designed to get to the return period means that while some could have used to supplement the 333s in the West Riding there is apparently no financial benefit in not scrapping them.

[Robert Shrives]

The CAF fleet has been exposed as having a number of mechanical faults so sadly the numbers game of needing stripping to shells structural repairs and reengineering  and rewiring to fit a newer user plus a large bit of inertia and throw away society and bye bye sets.   The modern engineer I am sure is very talented but seeing titles as "Fleet engineer" change to Fleet contracts engineer and subtly  to Fleet contracts manager  shows the way it is going - down the pan.    

Also of course CAF , Hittachi and Alstom have assembly plants in the UK and keeping these at capacity means new stock aplenty , Hittachi were very clever ensuring a minimum production contract with the Department of fuzzy thinking for the IEP designs ( 800s et al) - this plank seated disaster will undoubtedly see off the 220/221/222 fleets midlife, poor replaced by worse - yes the comment on wasted opportunities and historical failures in the making will make this era much a laughing stock for historians in the future trying to make sense of the hows and Whys? of the era.

Robert  

[jonny777]

Around 20 years ago, 87001 was repainted in BR blue and very smart it looked too. It was not quite a match for Virgin West Coast coaching livery, but hey-ho. Here it is at Watford on 23rd May 2003. 

 

 

 

[adb968008]

12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I would have thought that, in this era of resisting our previous throwaway attitude, we would be re-purposing such assets rather than simply recycling them.

 

John Isherwood.

 

its 1968 all over again.

All these scrappings are where the borrowed covid billions goes.

 

I think 21st century rolling stock is as disposable as Washing machines, everything, including railways are built to a price rather that a purpose, repurposing is more expensive than renewal...

 

Even Airbus aircraft are scrapped rather than re-used, the latest and greatest A380, built in 2009 being an example.. thats the borrowed post sept11th subsidy billions being scrapped there.

 

https://onemileatatime.com/air-france-a380-dismantled/

Scrapping of the 1960’s was based on a change to roads, but when transport is being scrapped on this scale, without replacement, you can only assume, the governments & industry leaders of this world are planning a future where masses of people dont travel.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by adb968008

[298]

15 hours ago, ianmacc said:

I’m not sure how in the modern era of manufacturing standards vehicles that young can be considered life expired! 

 

Apparently the HEx class 332s weren't built with full jigs so there are numerous tiny differences. And as for manufacturing standards, who do you think CAF earnt their nickname...? 

[adb968008]

16 hours ago, ianmacc said:

I’m not sure how in the modern era of manufacturing standards vehicles that young can be considered life expired! 

IT technology of 1999 is completely out of date today.

The hardware will be long out of support, the software code in an ancient no longer spoken language and skills for it long gone.

 

if replacing that IT requires a completely full strip down, to remove old wiring, insert new, and if that IT software was part of the control system the train may require completely new software to be written, tested, signed off, then re-tested on rails, before entering service, taking many millions and a couple of years...

 

That in itself could cost more than a new unit to be built, indeed they’d probably start an exercise by proposing to adapt it from a modern current unit and retro fit.. which means just buy the new unit is quicker, easier and cheaper.

 

New world problems, Pacers, Sprinters.. last of the mechanical, electronic old world, its a new brave digital new world...

 

I reckon class 180’s are entering their last years too. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by adb968008

[Welly]

The HEx 332s had very bad underframe corrosion which would have been very expensive to rectify such that it would have been better value to buy new trains.

[jonny777]

86229 'Lions Club International' arrives at Birmingham New Street with a service from Euston on April 16th 2003. 

 

 

[WessexEclectic]

2 hours ago, 298 said:

 

Apparently the HEx class 332s weren't built with full jigs so there are numerous tiny differences.

 

I had never realised that Hawker Siddley were involved...

[jonny777]

1 hour ago, jonny777 said:

86229 'Lions Club International' arrives at Birmingham New Street with a service from Euston on April 16th 2003. 

 

 

 

Thinking about it; that probably is not a service from Euston, as they would have been Mk3s at the time. 

[drjcontroller]

The first TOPS numbered locos I ever saw at Bescot, April 1973. Forgive the poor quality, scanned from an Instamatic print.

 

[JeffP]

Lovely atmospheric shot, that.

[cctransuk]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

IT technology of 1999 is completely out of date today.

.............

New world problems, Pacers, Sprinters.. last of the mechanical, electronic old world, its a new brave digital new world...

 

So - in future, the working life of hardware will be dictated by the pace of software development.

 

We knew that, in respect of our consumer PCs - but when it applies to major infrastructure such as complete trains; (and whole classes of them at that); I have to wonder if the tail is wagging the dog - and who benefits from this built-in redundancy.

 

No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist - but it does make me wonder exactly what benefits the replacement trains will offer over the recycled ones; from the passengers' perspective!

 

John Isherwood.

[Northmoor]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

IT technology of 1999 is completely out of date today.

The hardware will be long out of support, the software code in an ancient no longer spoken language and skills for it long gone.

 

if replacing that IT requires a completely full strip down, to remove old wiring, insert new, and if that IT software was part of the control system the train may require completely new software to be written, tested, signed off, then re-tested on rails, before entering service, taking many millions and a couple of years...

 

That in itself could cost more than a new unit to be built, indeed they’d probably start an exercise by proposing to adapt it from a modern current unit and retro fit.. which means just buy the new unit is quicker, easier and cheaper.

 

New world problems, Pacers, Sprinters.. last of the mechanical, electronic old world, its a new brave digital new world...

 

I reckon class 180’s are entering their last years too. 

Actually it doesn't normally require a complete strip-out and rewire in most cases, you can retain the standard interfaces and insert a new computer running on modern software if you had the presence of mind to specify a modular design using COTS products where possible.  They do this with aircraft.  The problem is that UK railway engineering companies are not good enough at it (yet) as they haven't had the practice; North American railroads have been upgrading and modernising diesels for decades. 

We do have a mentality that you buy a new rail vehicle and run it, without doing much more than changing the cushion covers, for 30 years, then scrap it and buy a new one.  Instead you should buy a train expecting a life of 30 years+ but that there will be substantial mid-life upgrades, probably every ten years, to exploit new technologies that improve comfort, performance, reliability, safety; all the things we want to see improve over time. 

[adb968008]

31 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Actually it doesn't normally require a complete strip-out and rewire in most cases, you can retain the standard interfaces and insert a new computer running on modern software if you had the presence of mind to specify a modular design using COTS products where possible.  They do this with aircraft.  The problem is that UK railway engineering companies are not good enough at it (yet) as they haven't had the practice; North American railroads have been upgrading and modernising diesels for decades. 

We do have a mentality that you buy a new rail vehicle and run it, without doing much more than changing the cushion covers, for 30 years, then scrap it and buy a new one.  Instead you should buy a train expecting a life of 30 years+ but that there will be substantial mid-life upgrades, probably every ten years, to exploit new technologies that improve comfort, performance, reliability, safety; all the things we want to see improve over time. 

Aircraft are built in thousands.. to relatively standard templates.

Multiple units are considered massively successful if it reaches 200.

With only a few exceptions (Electrostar, 66’s etc), our railways are still very bespoke.

 

Bespoke isnt cheap.

 

A good example for yourself is the class 69.. its a 66 redesign, itself a design based off several thousand SD60’s, but again its less than 20 its being designed for.

 

A bad example must be the 442.. millions spent only to put it in the bin.

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by adb968008

[wombatofludham]

9 hours ago, jonny777 said:

 

Thinking about it; that probably is not a service from Euston, as they would have been Mk3s at the time. 

Virgin withdrew the last EBW Mk2 rakes in 2004, so it could be a Euston service.  ironically a short five car Mk2 set plus DVT and hired in EWS90 was used on a Birmingham International to Manchester diagram during 2005 and 2006 as a sort of "Pretendavoyager".

Virgin Mk2 stock seems to have had more comebacks than last night's vindaloo.

 

[ianmacc]

22 hours ago, drjcontroller said:

The first TOPS numbered locos I ever saw at Bescot, April 1973. Forgive the poor quality, scanned from an Instamatic print.

 

83012 is still with us too! 
 

I think 84008 was a spare for the mobile load bank 009 and also lasted a long time beyond withdrawal. 

[jonny777]

Euston in the late 80s was still a station with interesting stock movements. Here, 85007 has backed onto empty stock, while 86253 waits for departure time. This was the era when BR thought it would be a great wheeze to have small loco numbers low down on the IC liveried bodywork in order to mess with spotters' heads when watching trains pass at speed. 

 

Another 86 (probably 219) lurks in the background. 

 

28th May 1989

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by jonny777

[jonny777]

This is a typical early 1990s container train, but I notice that the second 86 has its pantograph lowered. Was this normal? I thought the idea was to have both locos working in order to maintain speeds over the stiffer gradients on their route. 

 

I realise the second loco may have failed, but keeping in the train would tax the lead loco even more. I would appreciate info on the location. 

 

86638 and ano in 1991

 

 

 

 

[Johnson Street IEMD]

DB Cargo 90034 is passed heading out of the southern end of the Queensville curve by Pride liveried Avanti West Coast Pendelino 390119.