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NEW OO gauge Crowdfunded Class 92 initiative


DJM Dave
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If the information is anything like whats in the APT-P news then people better hope Dave got a new tape measure and calculator for Christmas!

 

I wondered about that Bill.

Wasn't there a scanning party at Crewe to digitally scan the sole surviving APT ? Does the scanning equipment accurately record the dimensions of the items being scanned ?   

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I wondered about that Bill.

Wasn't there a scanning party at Crewe to digitally scan the sole surviving APT ? Does the scanning equipment accurately record the dimensions of the items being scanned ?

Well you'd think so wouldn't you! Seems like even more bad luck on top of all the previous bad luck with other things.. Or maybe it's a communication problem..

 

Does seem to be more and more people voicing their reservations which others had said about long ago but got shouted down.

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Sigh. Yet more sad hysteria about something that isn't a problem from the Dave haters.

 

Before everyone thinks the APT has been shipped and is 50% too short or something, Dave has simply said that some adjustments need to be made to the CAD and he is checking and treble checking that it is correct before moving onto the next stage. To someone who doesn't hate him, it just sounds sensible and that he's on the ball!

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It all suggests to me that the easiest way of getting the design correct is to do it yourself - that way any glaring mistakes can be corrected before you go public. Or if your skills lie elsewhere, make sure you partner with someone who can.

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Can we do this in the APT thread, as we’re now talking about the forbidden news in a thread for a different model we’re not allowed to talk about?!

 

It’ll be a miracle if anyone knows they arrive. I presume stockists won’t be able to tell anyone for 2 weeks!

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I wondered about that Bill.

Wasn't there a scanning party at Crewe to digitally scan the sole surviving APT ? Does the scanning equipment accurately record the dimensions of the items being scanned ?   

 

3D scanning gets you a point cloud, which requires interpretation, not a dimensioned drawing, so it isn't a silver bullet in terms of dimensional accuracy.

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Without having seen the emails and given no one doubts Dave's skill at creating the models (14xx, people love the top half) maybe all Dave is doing here is buying himself more time before he commits money to tooling.

 

Two weeks and the updates will be in the general domain, in the meantime unsubtle hints at problems should be avoided, if you know something say it clearly otherwise it just looks like you are sniping.

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Without having seen the emails and given no one doubts Dave's skill at creating the models (14xx, people love the top half) maybe all Dave is doing here is buying himself more time before he commits money to tooling.

Two weeks and the updates will be in the general domain, in the meantime unsubtle hints at problems should be avoided, if you know something say it clearly otherwise it just looks like you are sniping.

There are two possible reasons for delaying a project:

1/ the CADs still require corrections (certainly the case with the last bit of info here)

2/ waiting for favourable moment in the international money market to transfer money across (good luck with that, though in the current instabilities there might be a small window of a strong pound - don,t hold your breath)

 

A third reason could be that some people have not paid up, here we are at the start and I assume that before the CADs etc were done, this had already cleared.

 

Everything else makes no sense as time is money and delay is increased costs. To keep that down, people once engaged on this crowd funding adventure, need to keep their side of the bargain and pay on time. Granted some here signed up a long time ago and feel they are somewhat in the dark.

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There are two possible reasons for delaying a project:

1/ the CADs still require corrections (certainly the case with the last bit of info here)

2/ waiting for favourable moment in the international money market to transfer money across (good luck with that, though in the current instabilities there might be a small window of a strong pound - don,t hold your breath)

A third reason could be that some people have not paid up, here we are at the start and I assume that before the CADs etc were done, this had already cleared.

Everything else makes no sense as time is money and delay is increased costs. To keep that down, people once engaged on this crowd funding adventure, need to keep their side of the bargain and pay on time. Granted some here signed up a long time ago and feel they are somewhat in the dark.

"People need to keep their side of the bargain and pay on time"- no invoice requests or obvious progress for over 2 years while other projects are announced and in one case (crowdfunded king) seemed to jump ahead in the queue and somehow we are not keeping our side of the bargain! Don't think so.

Mark

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I wondered about that Bill.

Wasn't there a scanning party at Crewe to digitally scan the sole surviving APT ? Does the scanning equipment accurately record the dimensions of the items being scanned ?   

 

No.  I know of some scanning done on something else where the scan was used to start off a CAD and it was found that the thing was coming out to an incorrect length and had to be corrected - fortunately before detail work on the CAD had gone very far.  Scans have their uses but they are a long way from the magic bullet some people seem to think they are.  Good old fashioned measuring sticks still have a place in the 21st century as do proper drawings (if they can be found - and even then they need checking against the real thing if it still exists because they too can produce errors if not checked).  Simple rule has to be measure, measure again, and then check the measurements before moving on to drawings (if they are done at all) and the CAD stage.

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I’m not even sure which bloody project we’re talking about now with all the non-information and scecret winks.

 

The 92 was going to tooling with a first EP in 8 weeks or so. That there’s now more information is weird - it certainly shouldn’t be anything CAD related, as that was signed off literally years ago, although there was this thing of having to redo it at some point.

 

The APT CAD sounds like it’s not quite there, which is fine, but sounds like some previous announcement suggested they were all fine. Stilll, there’s a separate thread for that.

 

This is truly reaching farcical levels, and the frustrating thing is that the more this happens the more glad I am that I’ve not actually put any money down for one, which is crazy. Information should be a good thing, it should drive confidence in a project, each announcement should drive new sign ups, not call the viability into question every time, in part because of an arbitrary 2-week period of wild guesses after every announcement before they’re made public!

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"People need to keep their side of the bargain and pay on time"- no invoice requests or obvious progress for over 2 years while other projects are announced and in one case (crowdfunded king) seemed to jump ahead in the queue and somehow we are not keeping our side of the bargain! Don't think so.

Mark

I don,t dispute that and I accept all those frustrations as being rightly normal. The 92 started in factory A for which DJM could no longer use. The N gauge King and APT started later in factory B and seem to be ahead. But really by not much if anything to be honest. The 92 has moved to factory B which caused part of the projects delay.

 

The problem is though, if when the second invoice comes along, not enough people pay, the project is dead. And that will doubtless have a knock on effect on the other projects too. For it to succeed people need to stick at it.

Granted Dave needs to hold his side of the bargain. People are not likely to pay further invoices if there is no proof of progress.

His comm, is a bit frustrating, one day being ready for tooling, the next the CADs are still being checked. Maybe just badly worded comm. Best to avoid saying we are at the next step if the first is not actually finalised and signed off.

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Right... so the news is clearly something about people not paying second invoices and thus the tooling being on hold? Or are there still CAD changes too?

 

Certainly seems like mixed messages, even among those who are actually in receipt of them!

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Right... so the news is clearly something about people not paying second invoices and thus the tooling being on hold? Or are there still CAD changes too?

Certainly seems like mixed messages, even among those who are actually in receipt of them!

No invoices not mentioned at all and as people know that the project can't progress without money though.
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If you are going to ask people to pay for stuff up front then you need to have a certain degree of credibility and to be seen as a safe pair of hands.

 

If I look at Revolution they started slowly, maintained good communications (but that is not the same as posting lots on RMweb, they communicated as was necessary to keep their supporters and other potential customers informed) and have delivered models to a very high standard. That inspires confidence and gives them credibility. Personally I do not like the pre-order model used by Rapido and don't pre-order (if I miss a model it's hardly the end of the world) but my dislike is down to a dislike of pre-ordering in general. I am confident that Rapido deliver what they promise and deliver it to a very high standard.

 

In the case of DJM we've had the factory issues (we don't know what happened other than the fact there was a breakdown between DJM and the factory), we had the website issues, there was the paypal issue, the companies house stuff, poor communications for stuff that mattered (such as invoicing) at the same time as posting about various other matters here, non-delivery of projects whilst continuing to announce more, it goes on. At some point most people are going to ask the question - is this really a business I want to pay up front on trust I'll eventually get something?

 

For most of the smaller model companies the difficult or technical stuff is done by the factories, they design the model, produce the CAD, make the tooling, manufacture etc, and those factories are clearly very competent and capable at what they do, the role of the people at this end is essentially just a project management and QA role with some research at the front end. The story from other model companies is generally that the factories are very good at what they do and are fine in terms of relationships and how they do business. Which again begs the question, why do other model companies not lurch along from crises to crises, melodrama to melodrama?

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If anyone has not received the email who should have done I would recommend emailing Dave so he can send and update his records. Don't understand this embargo myself seems a bit of a farce to be honest.

Marks

 

Can someone who has the email post it up, or are we all bowing to Daves increasingly desperate excuses/pleas and obeying him

 

Im sure his absence can be explained as he has set up a new religious cult somewhere, as he clearly has the ability to manipulate people and get their money based on loads of empty promises

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Can someone who has the email post it up, or are we all bowing to Daves increasingly desperate excuses/pleas and obeying him

 

Im sure his absence can be explained as he has set up a new religious cult somewhere, as he clearly has the ability to manipulate people and get their money based on loads of empty promises

Well he wasn't exactly courteous to other manufacturers when he gave away what new models were to be announced. Why he think's he commands that kind of respect I don't know!

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I have read many of the comments on this and other topics in the DJM part of "Products and Trade Area" of RM Web. I say this with no particular axe to grind either way, but with the disclosure that I supported the sadly aborted DJM Clayton in N and have pledged for a BR livery J94 in N as part of the Crowdfunding initiative announced at Warley.

 

My first comment is that the sudden total change in communication styles is hard to understand. IF a model has reached required numbers and the order book is closed then yes, logically the only ones who theoretically need to see the updates are those with an interest/investment in the project. However progress on one front inspires confidence in other projects and an appetite to invest. The "black hole" visible to the wider public at present as regards these projects enables no such conclusion to be reached. For these reasons keeping this info in the public domain (even if only on a "pinned" topic) would seem to make sense and keep the work more visible.

 

Secondly, as far as I am aware (and happy to be corrected here) many of the projects are still to reach the required levels of interest, so keeping them firmly in the public eye to drum up support is paramount and currently this is just not happening. How will models reach the MOQ if there is no public awareness of their existence or status?

 

Thirdly, it is not hard to understand why LaGrange has made the comments he has above in the absence of firm information to the contrary, many might rightly or wrongly draw similar conclusions, and keeping what info there is embargoed does nothing to help provide evidence to the contrary. 

 

If I take the example of the J94 in N, I placed my pledge as soon as it was announced, and that has been acknowledged, however since that time there has been no update whatsoever. I would like to know how it is progressing (this doesn't have to be directly with Dave, a simple comm would do the job. 

 

Personally I can understand why Dave doesn't want to respond to every single question on this, or any other forum, quite simply he doesn't have time, or if he makes it, it is most likely at the expense of other more productive things that make him a "crust". However I would strongly recommend regular updates on the forums. 

 

 

Roy

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Dave has posted his yearly update as promised on his website. Not so much a progress report on his models but more a review of what happened to him this year.

 

Indeed he has. This may serve to answer some of the more general questions that have been posed, including an explanation of why he has chosen to no longer post on Forums such as RM Web.

 

Link here to the general website which I hope it is OK to share: - 

 

https://djmodels.co.uk/

 

Roy

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Dave has posted his yearly update as promised on his website. Not so much a progress report on his models but more a review of what happened to him this year.

 

Yep, I didn't learn much about the latest developments for DJM model projects apart from a lot of comments about what a bad year 2018 was. And, I guess to be fair, it has been quite a year for DJM. 

 

However, for models on the burgeoning N gauge list of announcements there was no mention of the Mermaid and Shark and what was happening with them, nor anything about the HOU hopper, road van, bogie bolster, class 23, class 59, J94, Churchward Mogul, Hudswell Clarke ST and proposed set of four cars. For information about the King, APT and class 92 those who have registered an EOI are asked to contact him so few new details provided about them.

 

Interesting to note that Dave considers the class 17 is just on the 'back burner' rather than cancelled.

 

G.

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