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NEW OO gauge Crowdfunded Class 92 initiative


DJM Dave
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Thanks to this forum, making me aware of the 92 - I was looking for 'a decent one' and couldn't find one to match the Super Detail qualities of my 56, 60, 67 (and Dapol 68) ... until now!! - a deposit has been placed on an EWS 92 001 ... 

 

That mention of 6-8 weeks, is that for a 2nd payment of £30 or anticipated as the date available and will be a request for the balance outstanding?

 

Al.

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2 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

 

That mention of 6-8 weeks, is that for a 2nd payment of £30 or anticipated as the date available and will be a request for the balance outstanding?

 

Al.

 

It will be the second payment. Each payment (I think 4 in total) will cover a project milestone (R&D, tooling, 2nd tooling, production).

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2 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Thanks to this forum, making me aware of the 92 - I was looking for 'a decent one' and couldn't find one to match the Super Detail qualities of my 56, 60, 67 (and Dapol 68) ... until now!! - a deposit has been placed on an EWS 92 001 ... 

 

That mention of 6-8 weeks, is that for a 2nd payment of £30 or anticipated as the date available and will be a request for the balance outstanding?

 

Al.

You need to ask Dave direct I am afraid, he no longer posts to this forum so any questions specific to models and payment thereof need to via his site https://djmodels.co.uk/

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13 minutes ago, Legend said:

Mk 5 sleepers and TPE stock too. Maybe the only 92 will be in Caledonian Sleeper livery. Seems unlikely, but it is being introduced along with whole train

https://accurascale.co.uk/blogs/news/accurascale-announces-class-92-in-oo mentions livery permissions for all operators have been obtained.

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40 minutes ago, mdvle said:

Guessing some tried posting before official, but the end of this announcement says an OO Class 92 is coming from Accurascale with the help of Revolution Trains

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/142170-mark-5-by-accurascale/

 

Some tried, then thought maybe best to keep it secret but Model Rail's early magazine delivery made that impossible.

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35 minutes ago, Legend said:

Mk 5 sleepers and TPE stock too. Maybe the only 92 will be in Caledonian Sleeper livery. Seems unlikely, but it is being introduced along with whole train

 

Remember that when hauling the MK5 stock the 92's have been modified with Delner couplers so are a variant (but of course they have also run in the livery before the modification...).  Somehow, I'd expect the full (rather narrow) range of variants to be produced though.

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The class lived long, has many colours, is still around. It should survive being duplicated in OO (indeed Hornby & Lima duplicated the class in its first year). Accurascale  must have calculted there was space in the market for two before commiting resources. DJM is probably too far along to drop out. Can he and his new factory perform to get it out this year or early 2020? If they can, then he should survive.

 

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16 minutes ago, classy52 said:

Have to say it but if you snooze you lose.

Will be interesting to see what happens to DJM's 92 Project but can see the inevitable dark clouds forming over it after Accurascale's announcement...almost like the final nail in this coffin.

1 hour ago, Ouroborus said:

I'll get me popcorn ready for the inevitable forthcoming posts in this thread

 

Something to bear in mind with this project - it wasn't a 'interested in' project it had entered into the funding cycle and people have paid deposits.

 

If the project completes they have two or more payments to make and then they get their model, if it folds now - some money will be lost as CADs have been commissioned and other work completed to get to the current status of the development.  How that pans out for Dave and the investors would be the next part to this story, there may be fingers burnt so perhaps we all hope for a continuation through to completion so everyone gets what they wanted and no-one loses.

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9 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 

If the project completes they have two or more payments to make and then they get their model, if it folds now - some money will be lost as CADs have been commissioned and other work completed to get to the current status of the development.  How that pans out for Dave and the investors would be the next part to this story, there may be fingers burnt so perhaps we all hope for a continuation through to completion so everyone gets what they wanted and no-one loses.

 

According to the previous posts, 2nd payments due in 6 weeks time.   That's going to be interesting.   Same amount as a deposit on the Accurascale, which isn't crowdfunded and the specs are listed.    Stick or twist eh?

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3 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

 

According to the previous posts, 2nd payments due in 6 weeks time.   That's going to be interesting.   Same amount as a deposit on the Accurascale, which isn't crowdfunded and the specs are listed.    Stick or twist eh?

 

I guess it depends on the final price - Accurascale will be a commercial price and given their pricing on other items it will be a premium product and probably higher than the crowdfunded DJM.

 

If you stick, you get a 92 at a good price, if you twist you get a 92 but at the Accurascale price plus the lost first deposit on the DJM.

 

Terms and conditions will all come into play now - if you change your mind, can you get your deposit back and if people start doing that what happens to those who stuck and the model becomes unviable.

 

I guess people will learn a lot about Crowdfunding from here but like I said above, maybe it would be nice if we all hope that two high quality products can stand side by side and everyone wins.

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Stick.

I want Accurail to susceed and I want DJ Models to susceed. I stuck with the DJ cl71 when Hornby announced theirs and will do the same here. Research costs time and money as do CADs and travel. DJ have spent lots and has been unlucky with one factory. We need small manufacturers to keep the big ones on their toes :)

 

Luke

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I think this could seriously deter people from Crowdfunding

 

From my point of view individuals should only enter into crowdfunding if they expect to carry it through .  Similarly from the manufacturer I'd expect a clear list of specs , costs and a timeline, accepting that the timeline can drift , but not by years!  I should think he would make allowances for a certain attrition of orders along the way. But to me the individual  should have seriously thought about it up front and decided to commit.  While I don't know the legal position (which  I suspect is you can walk away without any further obligation) I think really you are morally obliged to continue . The fact that down the line a competing model might emerge should have been factored into your decision and is one of the risks that can occur. So there should be a commitment for X number of models that go ahead , progress payments made and model delivered to these customers. Specifically the crowdfunding is about that it delivers that defined number of models to the people that paid up and covers its costs . It is not about sales of subsequent runs in the future.  So walking away will damage the project.

 

The problem is that we have seen before people saying they will commit to a model but the numbers subsequently turn out not to be there.  The initial "ooh I'll have 10 of these " response is replaced by a dose of financial reality.

 

My suspicion is that people will walk away . But then what happens to the remainder . Work has been done and paid for . Will they lose out if this doesn't go ahead or will monies be refunded ?  I sense this is the defining moment for Crowdfunding in model railways.  Depending on the outcome it could kill Crowdfunding stone dead.

 

Then there is the retailer aspect . Always confusing , was it ever really pure crowdfunding?  As I understand it these models were to be offered through retailers .  It might be that these retailers will still want the model to compete with Accurascale  which I think only has the direct selling route . That's a possibility , but then consider you are up against not one but two competing models . While most people will have discounted the existing Hornby model it is still a factor, particularly at the low cost end of market .  With Accurascale at the high end, Hornby at the low end , there may now be no place for this model.

 

Its a tricky one .

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The new one should make little diference to the number of people that are already on board with paid deposits. Theorectically, most should remain commited.

If Dave shows real progress, there is little reason for them to drop out. The unforseen impact of this is that it may make further crowdfunding programs harder to start through fear that someone else will announce it anyway. To counter this, there is now a preasure to ensure time scales are reasonably met and the end product really satisfies end customers.

The DJM 92 faces some serious competition now for further orders from a team with a reputation second to none! So he needs to progress and progress really well. If the quality is there, the deadlines are met, it could the defining moment.    

 

  

 

 

 

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