RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 28, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2019 Crowd funding is one thing, but at some point you have to question when does crowdfunding stop and a wish list come land grab start? In the early days crowdfunding projects were using third party platforms such as kickstart where there was a time limit to secure the necessary minimum number of backers to go ahead. As has already been pointed out a few of DJM's projects have not made the cut to be viable but neither do they appear to have been pulled with the result it all feels extemporised and directionless, lurching from idea to idea. 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted February 28, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, 81C said: With all this for and against on these DJM threads has any-one asked DJ why Hattons and Kernow have dispensed with his services I amazed that at least one crowd funder has not asked this question. I would imagine that kernow/ hattons have realised or learnt how to do the model development in house without having to pay an outside consultant. I would think it is a cost saving exercise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I’d say it’s control & certainty. why rely on someone to manage a man doing CAD when you have to review & approve that CAD and supply all base info anyway. You might as well manage the man and get 1st hand info and influence. Ditto tooling & production. build your own relationships, pay direct, manage direct. even they are not immune to the CNY / missed boat issues, just consider the KMC PRA wagons, Realtrack 156s etc, all currently months late into U.K. even though we know production was started in 2018. hattons especially have a much bigger bargaining power and financial clout than DJM and that must count at some level 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 28, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2019 Kernow had their finger burnt with their involvement as money older for the aborted class 74 project and it is notable that after taking certain projects in house the realisation of those projects seemed to accelerate significantly. And it's notable that other commissioning parties don't seem to have had the alleged horror story experiences of dealing with Chinese factories either. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Didn't hattons have some problems with the golden arrow 71s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Ouroborus said: Didn't hattons have some problems with the golden arrow 71s? And a shed load of 14xx/48xx returns which were faulty. You can talk the hind legs off a donkey but it only works to the point where you let someone down. Dapol, Hattons, and Kernow all learned a hard lesson. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 6 hours ago, jjb1970 said: Kernow had their finger burnt with their involvement as money older for the aborted class 74 project and it is notable that after taking certain projects in house the realisation of those projects seemed to accelerate significantly. And it's notable that other commissioning parties don't seem to have had the alleged horror story experiences of dealing with Chinese factories either. I forget now whether the class 74 was a crowdfunded project or not. Just tried googling and there apparently was to be a Kernow exclusive 74010 in BR blue, but the KMRC webpage relating to class 74s is understandably blank. I wonder whether the UK model railway crowdfunding concept has become tainted because of this kind of thing. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Covkid said: I wonder whether the UK model railway crowdfunding concept has become tainted because of this kind of thing. Not sure crowdfunding is tainted, Revolution is a success, whilst Kernow’s aren’t Crowdfunded as such, I’ve paid up front a year + ago for the D600’s, and I’ve a couple of prepaid elsewhere. But it has introduced caution, at least in my own mind, of new initiatives. There is another as yet unrelated crowd funded project in its infancy, which I’m cautious of until it’s manufacturer is declared, and that announcement could swing confidence either way. Edited March 1, 2019 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, adb968008 said: Not sure crowdfunding is tainted, Revolution is a success, whilst Kernow’s aren’t Crowdfunded as such, I’ve paid up front a year + ago for the D600’s, and I’ve a couple of prepaid elsewhere. But it has introduced caution of new initiatives. There is another as yet unrelated crowd funded project in its infancy, which I’m cautious of until it’s manufacturer is declared, and that announcement could swing confidence either way. If you are refering to the KR GT3, there was a Facebook post a couple of days back saying the EOI e-mail list closes 9pm 28th February. I have the Golden Arrow kit slowly coming togethor on my work bench. While I don't doubt that the RTR version would be miles better, I don't like this so called "it is now or never" preasure and "you may loose your money if the project fails" statements. With the 71 and 74, we had Kernow acting as a 3rd party to ensure funders money was only transferred when true evidence of milestones had been reached. They lost a little with the 74, but credit to them for supporting their customers, they have all my Bachmann orders which should more than compensate for the loss of one 74. For me, if the person does not have the resources to see through at least half the costs or there is not a known/trusted third party to verify the project has resources before going ahead and ensure payments are made when there is evidence of project progression, then I'm not interested. Edited March 1, 2019 by JSpencer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2019 18 hours ago, 81C said: With all this for and against on these DJM threads has any-one asked DJ why Hattons and Kernow have dispensed with his services I amazed that at least one crowd funder has not asked this question. I seriously doubt if any business is likely to discuss or release information about something which might well have involved contracts or could be commercially sensitive in any way at all. No doubt the businesses involved, and reportedly others who decided not to use DJM as an intermediary, had their reasons and those reasons could well vary but they certainly aren't at all likely to disclose them, all we know is that they have moved on. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Covkid said: I forget now whether the class 74 was a crowdfunded project or not. Just tried googling and there apparently was to be a Kernow exclusive 74010 in BR blue, but the KMRC webpage relating to class 74s is understandably blank. I wonder whether the UK model railway crowdfunding concept has become tainted because of this kind of thing. The Class 74 was a crowdfunded project but Kernow held the funds on behalf of DJM, and took the financial hit on the bank and admin costs of refunding them when the project was cancelled. However in case anybody tries to add 2 + 2 to make 100 Kernow had projects in hand elsewhere before the 74 was cancelled. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2019 13 hours ago, Ouroborus said: Didn't hattons have some problems with the golden arrow 71s? In respect of its gearing and power train being unsuitable for the job in hand ...viz : hauling a prototypical set of GA Hornby Pullman’s at a realistic scale speed. Yes,I have that problem.On reflection I should have returned it as not fit for purpose....but I didn’t .So my fault then.My own faith in pre ordering one was not rewarded. If you base your decision on past performance and experience then in all honesty,I would be highly sceptical in placing any faith in future projects from the same quarter. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2019 8 hours ago, Covkid said: I forget now whether the class 74 was a crowdfunded project or not. Just tried googling and there apparently was to be a Kernow exclusive 74010 in BR blue, but the KMRC webpage relating to class 74s is understandably blank. I wonder whether the UK model railway crowdfunding concept has become tainted because of this kind of thing. I may be wrong but my recollection is that the class 74 was a crowd funded project which DJM saw as a good follow on from the class 71. To give people confidence Kernow agreed to hold the money, at that time they had a good relationship with DJM. At some point Kernow decided the project was moribund and no doubt worried about the reputational risk to their own business they walked away and refunded all monies. As a goodwill gesture they provided a little compensation to backers, it was commendable that kernow stood behind customers like that but sad that they ended up losing out because of non-delivery by another party. If I recall correctly (and I may well be mistaken) this was one of the projects that ended up with the factory being blamed for it all going wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 There were some DJM crowdfunding 74s and a couple exclusive weathered versions for Kernow. Both took full payment up front. The 71 left a bitter after taste for me, duplication aside, bargin bin prices post delivery also aside, this loco has been nothing but a problem child (boy I'm glad I returned and cancelled the second one). Prior to delivery of the 71, I joined the crowdfunding for the 74. Once the 71 was delivered, I hesitated a long time about possibly concelling it. There was no progress and years had gone by and the thought of having a second problem child did not appeal to me either..... In the end Kernow made the decision for us and the recovered money went on an H1. Thanks Kernow. The 92 uses a new factory and (we are told) will have a superior USA model loco type drive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Another newsletter should have been received this morning. Looking great! Now is the time to make any comments about changes you think are needed to info@djmodels.co.uk 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack374 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, BR(S) said: Another newsletter should have been received this morning. Looking great! Now is the time to make any comments about changes you think are needed to info@djmodels.co.uk A very informative newsletter it is too. There is lots of info regarding 2nd payments, which appear to be imminent, as well as some juicy CAD images. I quite like that Dave will endeavour to show photos of the tool making process; something I personally don't know much about. Jack. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 So 3 years after the project announcement we have a few CADS? Crunch time then if he wants second payments shortly..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Regarding the email I sent to Dave, (referenced on the now closed thread) I've had a quite +ve reply. I must admit that reading these threads, I also would rather that all the moaners just button it and stay away. If you're not interested in the project, then please post elsewhere about things that you are interested in. If you were a crowdfunder and are not continuing, a post saying that, and even giving your rationale, will suffice. Let's just keep this thread for those who are crowdfunding to comment as they see fit. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) As long as post stay within forum rules then anyone is free to comment I’m afraid. it all very strange, as I understand it DJ will accept new orders at the moment but potential customers are starved of information as its kept secret. i think these crowdfunding projects have pretty much killed model railway crowdfunding. Does DJ allow you to share what he’s said or are you not allowed ? Edited March 11, 2019 by Great Western 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I guess if he's asking for money that means tooling for the 1st EP is due to start. That makes it 'level' with the accurascale, also due to start tooling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted March 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2019 He does say that he expects to start asking for 2nd payments in about 2 weeks which is about the time the latest newsletter will be public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
classy52 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Great Western said: Does DJ allow you to share what he’s said or are you not allowed ? Have I missed something or not heard but have the crowdfunders signed a legally binding non-disclosure agreement with DJM not to publish the contents of emailed newsletters? If not then how the hell is this even enforceable considering you can just copy/paste and splatter it everywhere on any forum or social media outlet, why not just tell everyone regardless which may even attract new customers still deciding between this one and the other one recently announced. Personally I have followed DJM and this thread closely since the beginning due to interest in getting a new Class 92 but the way this has been conducted over the last 3 years I have thankfully always kept an arms distance and put my money down on the competition....I will still follow this out of morbid curiosity. Edited March 11, 2019 by classy52 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, classy52 said: and put my money down on the competition And why not, I'm sure you are not the only one One can never have too many class 92s Edited March 11, 2019 by Dixie Dean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
classy52 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said: And why not, I'm sure you are not the only one One can never have too many class 92s Yep the beauty of a free market coupled with open dialogue and opinions 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Could do with a couple of Class 88s and a 93 or 2 as well though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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