Clearwater Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, classy52 said: Have I missed something or not heard but have the crowdfunders signed a legally binding non-disclosure agreement with DJM not to publish the contents of emailed newsletters? If not then how the hell is this even enforceable considering you can just copy/paste and splatter it everywhere on any forum or social media outlet, why not just tell everyone regardless which may even attract new customers still deciding between this one and the other one recently announced. Personally I have followed DJM and this thread closely since the beginning due to interest in getting a new Class 92 but the way this has been conducted over the last 3 years I have thankfully always kept an arms distance and put my money down on the competition....I will still follow this out of morbid curiosity. It would be a somewhat eccentric strategy to sue a customer for disseminating your material. I’m not sure that’s in many marketing manuals... a better remedy is just to not send the update to anyone you suspect breaching your embargo. However, that’s stil on the eccentric side of the spectrum... 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted March 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2019 Placing an embargo on your communications is an eccentric strategy regardless...! 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep the Faith Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 If our hobby was big enough to be noticed then this crowdfunding saga would make for a fascinating case study on how to get it wrong. As other have pointed out more eloquently than I can, successful crowdfunding projects rely on building excitement and anticipation to keep existing customers engaged and to continue to attract new funding. It is a real shame that this apparent debacle could affect the credibility of future similar projects from other potential vendors. In a hobby that is probably becoming smaller non-traditional funding could be the only way that some projects are viable. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2019 I don't understand the secrecy with the updates. All the matey matey stuff followed by unenforceable embargoes is what is causing upset and not crowdfunding as such. I did email Dave some weeks ago regarding the APT-P project and the opportunities that improved publicity would give for further orders. He told me then that there was other publicity planned Has anyone seen any publicity? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 This all very interesting but perhaps would be better in a "Crowdfunding or not" type thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said: This all very interesting but perhaps would be better in a "Crowdfunding or not" type thread Dixie my post is not about crowd funding. It's about secrecy and publicity. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Colin_McLeod said: Dixie my post is not about crowd funding. It's about secrecy and publicity. Well, perhaps a "secrecy and publicity" thread then. To get back on topic, it will be interesting, assuming that Dave's 92's get built, whose look the best, detail and shape, etc. and whose run best. I must admit that I've ordered a 10 car sleeper train as well. Not sure I'll quite have a station big enough to get it into though. Might have to think about 2 x 4 coach packs instead, as 8 cars will be about my limit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Dixie Dean said: Regarding the email I sent to Dave, (referenced on the now closed thread) I've had a quite +ve reply. I must admit that reading these threads, I also would rather that all the moaners just button it and stay away. If you're not interested in the project, then please post elsewhere about things that you are interested in. If you were a crowdfunder and are not continuing, a post saying that, and even giving your rationale, will suffice. Let's just keep this thread for those who are crowdfunding to comment as they see fit. Not sure I understand this. You want the thread to be just for selected people to 'talk' about things they're embargoed from talking about? 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Dixie Dean said: This all very interesting but perhaps would be better in a "Crowdfunding or not" type thread Start here then - and I think you'll find the thread has covered many of the things which have arisen in this thread 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) Was anyone else on here interested in 92031? PM me if you are. Edited March 12, 2019 by Dixie Dean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted March 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said: Was anyone else on here interested in 92031? I think the replies are embargoed 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2019 One thing occurs to me - if a project is costed before going put to seek funds surely that costing will include research into the variants named at the outset and any associated 'licence' or 'facility' fees d charged by the owner of any particular subject? Thus having signed up, and equally importantly for others who have signed up, if extra variants are subsequently sought the additional research - even if it's only a couple of photos - will add to the overall cost of the project. Or are the initial costings against which the crowdfunds are raised sufficiently elastic to contain extra costs without asking for additional funds? Increases in production costs from the original estimate or quote are of course unavoidable as exchange rates move or as some work takes longer than the budgetted time/cost so presumably the funds sought take that into account. But making changes to the spec or adding different or additional subjects would presumably be outwith the original estimates? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Keep the Faith said: If our hobby was big enough to be noticed then this crowdfunding saga would make for a fascinating case study on how to get it wrong. As other have pointed out more eloquently than I can, successful crowdfunding projects rely on building excitement and anticipation to keep existing customers engaged and to continue to attract new funding. It is a real shame that this apparent debacle could affect the credibility of future similar projects from other potential vendors. In a hobby that is probably becoming smaller non-traditional funding could be the only way that some projects are viable. You have answered your own question. Small marketplace - high production costs, heavy competition from established businesses highly critical and niche customer base I don't think this is a typically healthy ecosystem for crowdfunding Edited March 12, 2019 by letterspider 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted March 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, letterspider said: I don't think this is typical for crodfunding This isn't 'crowdfunding'. it's cheap unsecured lending Financing Edited March 12, 2019 by chris p bacon 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, chris p bacon said: I think the replies are embargoed The aim of the other thread was to draw away trolls from this thread and have a 'clean area' where crowdfunders could talk but it didn't work for long and the thread was closed. Saying that I think we might see 92031, it is simply a matter of sufficient orders. Saying that I don't know how easy it is to renumber a '92 and stick on an etched nameplate! Maybe we should also be asking if we can have any weathered liveries? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, chris p bacon said: This isn't 'crowdfunding'. it's cheap unsecured lending Financing Yes - you have noticed! Perhaps you prefer 10% mark up of the RRP to go to RBS (other lenders are also available) Please stick to talk about the model not the business Edited March 12, 2019 by letterspider 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I'm not sure weathered versions would be a runner, might be something to do after market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post AY Mod Posted March 12, 2019 Moderators Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, letterspider said: Please stick to talk about the model not the business We are not accepting applications for moderators at present. 3 5 1 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2019 The DJM Class 92 CAD images were posted by BRM a short time ago on Facebook. The comments from the axe grinding trolls that immediately followed were nothing less than shocking. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, John M Upton said: The DJM Class 92 CAD images were posted by BRM a short time ago on Facebook. The comments from the axe grinding trolls that immediately followed were nothing less than shocking. With anyone calling them out no doubt receiving the now predictable response that they are "just trying to help the project, honest guv"! Edited March 12, 2019 by BR(S) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2019 Seems the offending comments on the Facebook thread have indeed been deleted. Well done. Them CADs do look pretty good I must say. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, John M Upton said: Seems the offending comments on the Facebook thread have indeed been deleted. Well done. I wonder why and who insinuated that they were to be removed. Amazing how some people are offended by the truth. The fact that people made these comments was enough of a warning to others, it's rare people will make negative comments for no reason 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, LaGrange said: it's rare people will make negative comments for no reason But that doesn't mean the reason is a good one for the benefit of all! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, BR(S) said: But that doesn't mean the reason is a good one for the benefit of all! If it saves people losing their hard earned cash all the better. One wonders if Accurascale had not announced their 92 would any progress have been made to the dj version. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2019 19 hours ago, classy52 said: Have I missed something or not heard but have the crowdfunders signed a legally binding non-disclosure agreement with DJM not to publish the contents of emailed newsletters? If not then how the hell is this even enforceable considering you can just copy/paste and splatter it everywhere on any forum or social media outlet, why not just tell everyone regardless which may even attract new customers still deciding between this one and the other one recently announced. Personally I have followed DJM and this thread closely since the beginning due to interest in getting a new Class 92 but the way this has been conducted over the last 3 years I have thankfully always kept an arms distance and put my money down on the competition....I will still follow this out of morbid curiosity. Nothing enforceable. Just a polite request. From the email with the pictures: May I ask that the information and pictures get kept private for 2 weeks to allow all crowdfunders to get theirs and digest the news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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