RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted May 28, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Damo666 said: Is the body shell printed in one piece? Most hobby 3D printers I've seen will struggle with a 3D print longer than 200mm. To be able to print a full 0 gauge body in one piece (if it is in one piece) would need an industrial (and expensive) 3D printer. Looking at the bodyshell on its side it looks to be a one piece print, and at 50mmx90mmx400mm(?) that is certainly not in the realms of a hobby printer. If it is correct and this has the same inaccuracies as a previous CAD that DJM has shown, then someone has had access to the .STL file.. . . or was asked to print it and now wants to sell it/or one of 'it' 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted May 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2019 Got to be someone in the UK besides the obvious item location.....no one in there right mind on the continent has wood-chip wallpaper! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 44 minutes ago, pheaton said: Got to be someone in the UK besides the obvious item location.....no one in there right mind on the continent has wood-chip wallpaper! The implication there being that everyone on the continent is in their right mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted May 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2019 I hope he is not in breach of any IP protection. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted May 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2019 1 hour ago, truffy said: The implication there being that everyone on the continent is in their right mind. 10 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: I hope he is not in breach of any IP protection. Has someone IP protected wood chip wallpaper? If so I would like to buy the patent rights and bury them at an unmarked spot to prevent it ever been produced again. 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 I see DJ is listed as attending the Perth model Railway show 29/6 & 30/6 maybe someone can ask him in person for an update, I am not sure yet if I will be going but if I do I will ask and provide answer given on forum. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2019 17 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said: I hope he is not in breach of any IP protection. In reality it would surely boil down to the ownership of the .STL file? That must be the key element as 'somebody' will have ensured that they own that file. Whatever anybody who doesn't own it might think they would, I suspect, not be in any legal position to challenge somebody else using it either through direct ownership of it or with the owner's permission. As was recently explained to me by a manufacturer the key thing is to ensure ownership of the .STL file because without that you wouldn't be able to prevent others from using it. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d9002 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 2 hours ago, shunny said: I see DJ is listed as attending the Perth model Railway show 29/6 & 30/6 maybe someone can ask him in person for an update, I am not sure yet if I will be going but if I do I will ask and provide answer given on forum. There might even be an update on the website by then .... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: In reality it would surely boil down to the ownership of the .STL file? That must be the key element as 'somebody' will have ensured that they own that file. Whatever anybody who doesn't own it might think they would, I suspect, not be in any legal position to challenge somebody else using it either through direct ownership of it or with the owner's permission. As was recently explained to me by a manufacturer the key thing is to ensure ownership of the .STL file because without that you wouldn't be able to prevent others from using it. This got me thinking - Is there a breach of law here for using something that he did not own to make an item he did not mean to sell? Is it theft if the file was *copied* but not taken? The copying of a few lines of programming language amounts to what exactly? On the face of it, I thought it cut and dried, but thinking about it, I find it less obvious. There are two things that are crystal though - Its bloody weird how this resin model exists Just when you think this thread has run its course, up pops another gem. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Everyone's thinking about theft and ownership; I looked at the address and thought maybe this chap helped Dave out with his smaller 3D prints, and this was part payment. Nothing dodgy at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted May 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2019 In which case I don’t see why you wouldn’t say that, rather than talk about reverse engineering it from the prototype! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted May 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2019 Well I asked the seller, as I'm genuinely interested. He said he's never heard of Dave Jones, but he also didn't print it, someone else did (using their CAD, not the sellers). On the tension lock coupling: "The loop on the front was added in case it was to be dragged behind a loco. This idea was scrapped due to the plastic wheels etc. The unit is too heavy for a 3 link coupling." Curiouser and curiouser. So the third party who printed it is presumably the guy who does Dave's CAD, which, ironically is potentially an example of the very thing which Dave sought to prevent with registering his designs, which I'm not aware of having ever happened before! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, njee20 said: Well I asked the seller, as I'm genuinely interested. He said he's never heard of Dave Jones, but he also didn't print it, someone else did (using their CAD, not the sellers). On the tension lock coupling: "The loop on the front was added in case it was to be dragged behind a loco. This idea was scrapped due to the plastic wheels etc. The unit is too heavy for a 3 link coupling." Curiouser and curiouser. So the third party who printed it is presumably the guy who does Dave's CAD, which, ironically is potentially an example of the very thing which Dave sought to prevent with registering his designs, which I'm not aware of having ever happened before! Hmm - and as far as I know all the CADs for DJM models were drawn in China although that might have changed with the 'new' version of the Class 92(?). But it will still come down to who owns the .STL file and so could it be in this case that somebody in the UK other than DJM owns the .STL file? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Dave got the 3D print done over here - somewhere there is a post from him about looking for someone to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) On 28/11/2017 at 17:22, DJM Dave said: Hi everyone, A cold but sunny day allowed me to get the Halfords primer out today and prime the 3D 92 in grey to show the detail better. Attached are the photographs i took of the bodyshell with the chassis moulded in place for your viewing pleasure, or not. worthy of note are the missing roof panels showing details that will, on the model be under etches, fine pipe, bolt and rivet details, bodyside holes for etched grilles, and the wealth of roof detail that is slightly wrong on the print but will give you an idea of what i'm looking to achieve. The shoulder valance panels by the cabs will be separate items, and have the tell tale gaps around them, and have more clearance under them so you can look at the detail hidden there. I've also included an N gauge comparison using a European loco and the N gauge version which is obviously wrong and looks more 'T' gauge, but still has the roof detail of the OO version. Anyway, here they are, Hope you like? Cheers Dave Took a while. Fascinating reading some of the earlier posts. If you look closely, Dave's model is smooth sided. The eBay version has the channel tunnel circular rings. Dave's print is also much more detailed. Edited May 30, 2019 by Ouroborus Typo 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted May 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2019 A pity DJM did not just get the job done, the 3D's look very good (TME). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted May 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2019 He still hasn't actually given up! 1 hour ago, Ouroborus said: Took a while. Fascinating reading some of the earlier posts. If you look closely, Dave's model is smooth sided. The eBay version has the channel tunnel circular rings. Dave's print is also much more detailed. The last 2 photos of Dave's clearly show printed rings. There's also no pantograph head (like the O gauge one). I'll eat my hat if the O gauge one doesn't have origins in Dave's CAD. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted May 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2019 The fan without a grill is by far the biggest give away, (discussed on this thread actually). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroborus Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, njee20 said: He still hasn't actually given up! The last 2 photos of Dave's clearly show printed rings. There's also no pantograph head (like the O gauge one). I'll eat my hat if the O gauge one doesn't have origins in Dave's CAD. Apologies, you are indeed correct. That said, the eBay version still seems a massively lower quality thn DJMs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, njee20 said: He still hasn't actually given up! The last 2 photos of Dave's clearly show printed rings. There's also no pantograph head (like the O gauge one). I'll eat my hat if the O gauge one doesn't have origins in Dave's CAD. 47 minutes ago, pheaton said: The fan without a grill is by far the biggest give away, (discussed on this thread actually). If this was America we'd be crying Fake News, first Dave comes out with a legal assertion about ownership of his CADs then three weeks later a 3D print turns up on EBay that looks to have used one of said CADs so proving his point. The chap selling it even has his address on his EBay profile so it wouldn't be hard for Dave to find him if he has used his CAD against his permission. Edited May 30, 2019 by woodenhead 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted May 30, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Ouroborus said: That said, the eBay version still seems a massively lower quality thn DJMs Agreed, I imagine it's just a lower quality print. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 6 hours ago, Ouroborus said: Apologies, you are indeed correct. That said, the eBay version still seems a massively lower quality thn DJMs From what I can see, and what I've already mentioned before, it's a perfect match. Only the image quality differs. Everything on that O gauge model points to DJM CAD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 10 hours ago, woodenhead said: If this was America we'd be crying Fake News, first Dave comes out with a legal assertion about ownership of his CADs then three weeks later a 3D print turns up on EBay that looks to have used one of said CADs so proving his point. The chap selling it even has his address on his EBay profile so it wouldn't be hard for Dave to find him if he has used his CAD against his permission. It does seem far too coincidental doesn't it, almost too unbelievable. At the end of the day though DJM seems to be having a substantial crisis of customer confidence (judging by posts on RMweb) but still appears to have gone native. A strange way of running a business. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 '... the terrorist's intact passport was found alongside the pool of molten steel... ...the Haynes Manual for satchel bombs was found on the passenger seat of the hire car with the suspect's Visa debit card...' 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo666 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 11 hours ago, njee20 said: Agreed, I imagine it's just a lower quality print. Or an earlier version on the model's development timeline? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts