NEW OO gauge Crowdfunded Class 92 initiative

[chris p bacon]

It should be noted though, that for some of those even at the smaller runs that have been discussed, Dave has said their was insufficient demand. I don’t see a problem with testing the water and deciding that something is not viable and I believe that should not count against him. Getting more into production is needed, yes.

 

Riy

 

 

The issue for some people will be the lack of focus on the projects that have looked to be viable.

[jjb1970]

A further focus for some will be a lack of focus for crowd funded projects which they've paid money into, I'm not into crowd funding (although I freely admit that Revolution do it very well in the world of model trains) but I wouldn't be happy if I'd paid money only to see little progress whilst all sorts of other projects are launched and promoted. Deliver what you've been paid for is quite a good basic principle in any business.

[brittannia]

No vendetta. It's just that the transparency is becoming a bit opaque.

 

Agreed about the updates, but as yet, Dave still hasn't posted the email on his website as promised to do so by Sunday just gone. 

And I quote:

 

Next Sunday i will upload this pdf to my web site home page for general consumption.

 

The reason I can quote that is because a friend rightly or wrongly (and I'm not going to discuss that here) sent me a copy because he knows I've pre-ordered one

I never received - and it seems that others haven't -  the email from Dave and I'm still awaiting a reply from trying to contact him 7 or more days ago

I know he has (or athe very least, had) my original email, as my Paypal receipt from October 2016 contains it.

My email address was lost by Dave, but due to this topic I was able to contact Dave about the lack of information {My email address was lost} he emailed me back to confirm my deposits and e mail address, he also emailed the PDF, as I could not sign into the website as yet due to the e mail loss.

[DavidH]

My email address was lost by Dave, but due to this topic I was able to contact Dave about the lack of information {My email address was lost} he emailed me back to confirm my deposits and e mail address, he also emailed the PDF, as I could not sign into the website as yet due to the e mail loss.

 

Does it worry you that someone you paid money to had lost your details?

[Covkid]

I've wondered about this too so out of curiosity I've taken a look at all the different models mentioned in this DJ models section of RMweb. I've counted models for different gauges as separate models but livery versions have not been counted. If I've counted correctly there have been expressions of interest or proposals of intent for 29 separate models with 4 of these projects resulting in models coming to the marketplace. One of the four is the Kernow 02 and I'll let you judge the relevance of that. Also mentioned was a proposal for crowdfunded N scale cars which as far as I'm aware nothing has come of. 

 

That is a pretty succinct paragraph of my thoughts Neil. As each project DJM favoured, collapsed it has left me wondering what would make it to the retailer shelves, and whether there would be enough crowdfunders to achieve the individual aspirations. The class 74 was an interesting one which I expected to do well, but clearly the numbers didn't stack up.

 

Dave has clearly worked hard "behind the scenes" as a third party supplier to Hattons, Kernow etc, and I have to say that the LSW class 02 looks enchanting. although just not enough for me. Am I right in thinking the Hugh Flynn SPA wagon was a third party Dave Jones production ?    

I genuinely hope Dave Jones can regain trust in his relationships because the hobby actually needs as many and as diverse producers as it can. Let us hope the class 92 will see the light of day. 

[mikeharvey22]

I've wondered about this too so out of curiosity I've taken a look at all the different models mentioned in this DJ models section of RMweb. I've counted models for different gauges as separate models but livery versions have not been counted. If I've counted correctly there have been expressions of interest or proposals of intent for 29 separate models with 4 of these projects resulting in models coming to the marketplace. One of the four is the Kernow 02 and I'll let you judge the relevance of that. Also mentioned was a proposal for crowdfunded N scale cars which as far as I'm aware nothing has come of.

 

I'd forgotten about the 1/148 scale cars, another one I tried to support. Prompted me to look back over the last five years at the end of year reports, which made for interesting reading. The quote from the 2016 end of year report makes a specific reference to crowdfunding policy after the 92s are delivered.

 

"This locomotive was planned by me when I was with a previous employer so came as no surprise to many to see me announce it as a crowdfunding venture. On the back of the 71 this project has come almost to tooling stage more quickly and wonderfully funded in both gauges by you the modeler who recognize my expertise in such models, and my full award winning history of producing models many of you run today on your layouts.

It is really encouraging for me to see that you have faith in my ability, and the fact that I am trying to make a living doing this full time without an alternate source of income, and for that I thank you. I have, due to a wonderful factory, negotiated great prices for the fully specified model, and I have lots of things that I cannot announce at this time that will blow you away regarding detail, painting, and other development I cannot even hint at, at this time.

 

Once the 92 is completed and delivered in both gauges I will not do another crowdfunded model for a good few years until the rather buoyant production and manufacture of assorted models from third parties etc has slowed down or plateau’d. This I think is the sensible approach and one which will allow me to concentrate on getting the back catalog out to you all. Talking of catalog i intend to publish a pdf catalogue in the 1st quarter which will contain some interesting info."

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118432-djmodels-ltd-end-of-year-report-2016/?p=2557905

 

 

 

There probably will not be a 2018 end of year report on RMWeb, I suppose.

Edited December 15, 2018 by mikeharvey22

[reevesthecat]

Dave has now put both newsletters on his website apparently there was a server issue which prevented earlier posting.

Mark

[BR(S)]

Dave has now put both newsletters on his website apparently there was a server issue which prevented earlier posting.

Mark

There is more information in his posting as well:

 

https://djmodels.co.uk/oo-n-gauge-class-92-update-newlsetter

[JSpencer]

CAD/CAM?

CAD = Computer Aided Design

CAM = Computer Aided Manufacturing

 

The second is not done until the first is perfect. I think he obviously means that the next step cannot be done until the CADs (a loosely used name for the computer generated drawings, though these days, they are actually 3D renderings) are checked and signed off by him.

 

Now his CADs show the final product, but that needs to have most moulded parts inversed for other programs to produce the machining programs which make the tools. This is where the CAM begins. Some parts will need fettling (milling machines finalising slots of Diecast chassis blocks) other parts being turned etc. all this is done via various CAM programs with each part having a chosen means of manufacture. I doubt any work was done on the CAM until the CADs were perfect. He then won,t see anything until the first EPs pop out as a result of the CAM process.

 

Here's the thing though, the update page talks about more modifications to the CAD, yet the PDF letter talks about being ready to tool. if all the CAM programs are ready to start cutting tools, then I wonder why DJM has not shared any CAD images (they should been signed off before CAM started say a month back). But hold on the update link says the CADs are not perfect yet...

That said, granted, probably best to ask for 2nd payment now so that once CADs are signed off, tooling really can start as funds are ready to go. My advice would be that he shares some CAD images when he asks for the payment though.

Edited December 15, 2018 by JSpencer

[brittannia]

Does it worry you that someone you paid money to had lost your details?

 

Yes it does, i had no contact from Dj Models for nearly 2 years and as I posted earlier I presumed the Class 92 would not go ahead, it was only due to "posters" on this forum that I emailed DJM as to why I had no updates {I Do not think I had missed many},Dave Jones answered my email ,saying his emails had been returned as unknown ,As previously stated I do have contact now and the newsletter etc 7 days ago,

[pharrc20]

Stafford show end of February?? Sat 2nd and Sun 3rd Feb according to their website.

Paul

[jjb1970]

I think that conflating CAD and CAM is very common. To people in design and manufacturing it is very clear what is meant by each term. However, many observers and lay people use CAD/CAM without understanding the difference. Given that Dave Jones is effectively commissioning designs with the design and manufacture being done by the factory I think it is an understandable mistake that many make.

[Andy Mac]

I pre-ordered and placed a deposit on one back in 2016(?)

I have tried emailing a few times but have not had any form of reply, is there any sound evidence this is actually happening?

There is a lot of completely non-related chatter here about who doesn't like who.. but none of the promised 'surprises' from DJM actually occured, to my knowledge and extensive search of the forum/Google and I was never sent a newsletter either !

I'm not a total numpty and I know stuff does go wrong, it's business but someone somewhere has £30 of mine for the last almost 3 years and it is disappointing that there is nothing to show for it. I understand there is troubles with CAD files disappearing but going to ground because a few people are (rightly imo) upset is a peculiar business model.

The updates on the djmodels website re the class 92... i’d Maybe try emailing Dave through the website to get your name added to the distribution list...

As to him not being active on the website, neither are Hornby, Oxford, SLW, Peco, or indeed Bachmann (they only reply to Andy York’s questions)... you may quote certain smaller manufacturers as models of communications, but I could probably tell you a couple of horror stories... however I chose not to air these on the forums, as at the end of the day they are small one or two man operations trying to make a living... if there end product is good, then I can forgive the poor communications....

Edited December 23, 2018 by Andy Mac

[Dixie Dean]

Can't we just put a line under this now and just await further developments?  Or why not just a separate moan about Dave thread and leave this just for OO gauge Class 92 updates?  I think everything that can be said has been and just regurgitating it seems pointless.  If your still in, you're in, otherwise you're out!

Edited December 24, 2018 by Dixie Dean

[JSpencer]

I pre-ordered and placed a deposit on one back in 2016(?)

I have tried emailing a few times but have not had any form of reply, is there any sound evidence this is actually happening?

There is a lot of completely non-related chatter here about who doesn't like who.. but none of the promised 'surprises' from DJM actually occured, to my knowledge and extensive search of the forum/Google and I was never sent a newsletter either !

I'm not a total numpty and I know stuff does go wrong, it's business but someone somewhere has £30 of mine for the last almost 3 years and it is disappointing that there is nothing to show for it. I understand there is troubles with CAD files disappearing but going to ground because a few people are (rightly imo) upset is a peculiar business model.

There is telephone number on his website. If he is still having server troubles, I would try that first.

[Dixie Dean]

Another newsletter has been circulated with some additional information about both the OO and N gauge projects.  As with previous ones, they will be made public in about 2 weeks on the DJM website.

[St. Simon]

Another newsletter has been circulated with some additional information about both the OO and N gauge projects. As with previous ones, they will be made public in about 2 weeks on the DJM website.

Hi,

 

Yes, I've received it (and the previous one) despite saying a couple of years ago that I won't be taking part in the funding.

 

I'm afraid to say that the quality of these newsletters (simply typed on word with no company logo headings etc and overlapping text) aren't at all good for a model manufacturer (even if DJ is only a one man band), I'm sorry to say it doesn't give me confidence...

 

Simon

Edited December 30, 2018 by St. Simon

[njee20]

Another newsletter has been circulated with some additional information about both the OO and N gauge projects.  As with previous ones, they will be made public in about 2 weeks on the DJM website.

And is the content under embargo until then? Is there anything of note in it? 

[TravisM]

I’m going to wait awhile longer to see what’s happening but if there’s no further updates, I’ll cancel my order and get my deposit back.

Edited December 30, 2018 by jools1959

[newbryford]

And is the content under embargo until then? Is there anything of note in it? 

 

There is a request not to divulge it for two weeks.

[reevesthecat]

And is the content under embargo until then? Is there anything of note in it?

 

If anyone has not received the email who should have done I would recommend emailing Dave so he can send and update his records. Don't understand this embargo myself seems a bit of a farce to be honest.

Mark

[njee20]

I have not backed it, so by that measure I “should” not have received the update, prospective customers being outside the ‘inner circle’. If the (N gauge) model comes to fruition I will likely buy one, but until then I remain an interested observer.

[bill_schmidt1]

If the information is anything like whats in the APT-P news then people better hope Dave got a new tape measure and calculator for Christmas!

[njee20]

Go on...?

 

Edit: I see that’s embargoed too. *facepalm*

Edited December 31, 2018 by njee20

[classy52]

prospective customers being outside the ‘inner circle’.

 

Maybe he's a big fan of 'Meet the Fockers'