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NEW OO gauge Crowdfunded Class 92 initiative


DJM Dave
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However, for models on the burgeoning N gauge list of announcements there was no mention of the Mermaid and Shark and what was happening with them, nor anything about the HOU hopper, road van, bogie bolster, class 23, class 59, J94, Churchward Mogul, Hudswell Clarke ST and proposed set of four cars.

 

That's a lot of homework for a dog to have eaten

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I did not quite get the comments in the end of year news about life being too short to answer e-mails. If they are trolling mails, I agree they should be ignored. But enquiries of all natures from your customers about products, orders, payments, spares etc should never be ignored and treated rapidly. It is a big area that either quickly creates confidence OR looses it completely. If you have not resolved the question by the third mail, jump on the phone to them.

People are prepared to pay more if service is excellent.

 

I think most projects for now are dead in the water unless people have money invested in them. There would be little point carrying on with those for now. It seems that the worst of the storm has passed DJM so hopefully we will see better more rapid progress with the projects that are left. And some hint above suggests the 92 reached tooling, excellent news if it has, great news if reaches an EP in 8 weeks. But even if a few months later than that, it will still be excellent progress after such a storm.

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I did not quite get the comments in the end of year news about life being too short to answer e-mails. If they are trolling mails, I agree they should be ignored. But enquiries of all natures from your customers about products, orders, payments, spares etc should never be ignored and treated rapidly. It is a big area that either quickly creates confidence OR looses it completely. If you have not resolved the question by the third mail, jump on the phone to them.

People are prepared to pay more if service is excellent.

 

I think most projects for now are dead in the water unless people have money invested in them. There would be little point carrying on with those for now. It seems that the worst of the storm has passed DJM so hopefully we will see better more rapid progress with the projects that are left. And some hint above suggests the 92 reached tooling, excellent news if it has, great news if reaches an EP in 8 weeks. But even if a few months later than that, it will still be excellent progress after such a storm.

 

 

Having read the end of year report I think the "mails" he is referring to are actually forum posts. He doesn't actually use the word "e-mails"

 

Regards

 

Matt

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The only thing is , if you remove yourself from forums, and I understand it was getting a little hot for him, how will you promote your models going forward . How many would have signed up for an APT had it not been announced through here on a thread. Yes I know he has a website , this is actually the first time I’ve visited it, but I think he still needs to work on communications / promoting products . It looks like there’s a bit of a gap there.

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The only thing is , if you remove yourself from forums, and I understand it was getting a little hot for him, how will you promote your models going forward . How many would have signed up for an APT had it not been announced through here on a thread. Yes I know he has a website , this is actually the first time I’ve visited it, but I think he still needs to work on communications / promoting products . It looks like there’s a bit of a gap there.

 

His current website is, I think, an improvement on his original one and I see he has gone in for some magazine advertising although it strikes me a very limited plus a stand at various shows over the years.  But overall in terms of promotion he clearly needs to work a lot harder because others have come into the market and overtaken him - it is noticeable that not only have Accurascale developed a market position more or less from scratch and without crowd funding of their British outline models while Revolution are now also developing a model without crowd funding it.   These developments, in both cases without the financial support from a mixed base such as a retail business, suggest to me that it is still possible to capitalise a model railway manufacturing business without the need for. crowd funding other than - in some cases - to get it started.

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while Revolution are now also developing a model without crowd funding it.  

 

Not strictly true. Revolution Trains are working with a Chinese Manufacturer Sonic Models (also registered company in UK since last May) to produce the VEA and 56xx; As far as I know Sonic models are funding these themselves. Revolution Trains are effectively acting as foot in the door for them

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His current website is, I think, an improvement on his original one and I see he has gone in for some magazine advertising although it strikes me a very limited plus a stand at various shows over the years.  But overall in terms of promotion he clearly needs to work a lot harder because others have come into the market and overtaken him - it is noticeable that not only have Accurascale developed a market position more or less from scratch and without crowd funding of their British outline models while Revolution are now also developing a model without crowd funding it.   These developments, in both cases without the financial support from a mixed base such as a retail business, suggest to me that it is still possible to capitalise a model railway manufacturing business without the need for. crowd funding other than - in some cases - to get it started.

 

He might not want loads of customers. Just enough to get the projects going and paid for and keep the business stable and ticking over and that is it. I have the impression he is doing these things with just 500 or 1000 items ordered. With the 3 main active projects, maybe 3000 in total max. That would be easily managable by a one man band.

If he had 15000 orders (and a roughly similar number of customers), it would certainly be beyond one person (how long would it take him to post out 5000 orders of a new model? Kernow took 2+months with a few staff members!). There is strong suggestion is his new year mail that he feels the market is saturated/contracting which maybe is making him weary to not expand the business beyond a certain size. Otherwise he then needs a partner/employee which is a cost (amongst other things). 

 

Accurascale are at least 4 people, each bringing special skills and talent needed for all aspects of a business, sharing a common dream with a well thought out program Revolution are at least 2 people. Both teams have strong cohesion and can back each other up on the backend elements. They have the people and skills to expand quickly and doubtless the risk is shared/reduced between them. They openly work well with others while Dave is more do it alone.

People on these projects are going to get a rare item and if the quality is excellent, it will be a really great investment for the crowd funders. At - of course - a higher risk that it might fail.

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Not strictly true. Revolution Trains are working with a Chinese Manufacturer Sonic Models (also registered company in UK since last May) to produce the VEA and 56xx; As far as I know Sonic models are funding these themselves. Revolution Trains are effectively acting as foot in the door for them

 

But Revolution are no doubt still carrying some costs and a degree of risk, even if they work on a pre-order basis and aren't bearing the full production cost.

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But Revolution are no doubt still carrying some costs and a degree of risk, even if they work on a pre-order basis and aren't bearing the full production cost.

Hello all,

 

Loathe as I am to dip into this thread, I should clarify that Revolution are looking at a variety of ways to bring models to market.

 

Most remain crowdfunded, as that is our "tried and tested" formula and has, so far, enabled us to deliver 6 different models in N and 00.

 

However, with the 40' hi-cube boxes and 20' tank containers in partnership with C-Rail we simply guaranteed to order a minimum number, confident that these would sell through quickly, as they have.

 

Sonic is a new Chinese brand looking to sell to the UK market directly, much as Lima, an Italian brand have done in the past, and we are facilitating that, while offering design and research input and marketing support, while the MMA box wagon in 00 is a Revolution model privately funded by an individual who felt it was a good choice and, with interest rates so low, a worthwhile investment.

 

We also have exciting plans for more collaborative models in the future; particularly where we have, for example, a partner with more experience in other scales but with whom we can share research and development costs.

 

Our view is that there can be lots of routes to market and we are interested in exploring them all.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited by Ben A
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Sonic is a new Chinese brand looking to sell to the UK market directly, much as Lima, an Italian brand have done in the past, and we are facilitating that, while offering design and research input and marketing support, while the MMA box wagon in 00 is a Revolution privately funded by an individual who felt it was a good choice and, with interest rates so low, a worthwhile investment.

 

 

Interesting, so one of the Chinese producers is going to have a go at selling to us directly. I've always wondered if/when that would happen, partnering with a UK team to help with research etc is an ideal way to do it.

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Interesting, so one of the Chinese producers is going to have a go at selling to us directly. I've always wondered if/when that would happen, partnering with a UK team to help with research etc is an ideal way to do it.

I thought it started in 1979 myself, though one would be forgiven the error as Hong Kong was still British at the time.

http://www.mainlinerailways.org.uk

Edited by adb968008
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  • 2 weeks later...

I notice that Hornby are bringing out a Class 92 model of 92043 in GBRf livery. (It was formerly named ‘Debussy’.)

 

It has an RRP of £119.00 and Hattons have it advertised at £107, so it looks overpriced by Hornby compared with the DJM model which will be of significantly higher quality.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/430641/Hornby_R3741_Class_92_92043_Debussy_in_GBRf_europorte_livery/StockDetail.aspx#15474021718262&_command=reamaze%3Aresize&_height=350&_name=_embed_0&_url=

 

92043 in this livery would make a superb, attractive pair with the DJM model of 92032, also in GBRf Europorte livery.

 

Might be time for anyone else who feels the same to contact Dave and suggest adding this to the list of Class 92 versions he is offering. Or possibly Hattons, who are already offering several versions of the DJM Class 92, might consider it.

 

r3741_gbrf-class-92_2.jpg?preset=large

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I suspect that by the time DJM's is ready, Hornby will have long finished selling their version.

Not to mention one segment lower in the market. Also targeted at those who won't want the/know of the DJM model. New entrants and children will find it far easier to raise £119 than £162, let's not forget that the cheaper option (i.e. crowdfunded one) will not be everyone's cup of tea and certainly not something children will have the ability to do.

 

I'll be buying the Hornby one...

  • it's cheaper,
  • gives me a chance to do some proper modelling,
  • comes from a trusted manufacturer,
  • gives me a chance to use my own detailing kits,
  • gives me a chance to make more detailing kits and sell.
Edited by MGR Hooper!
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I suspect that by the time DJM's is ready, Hornby will have long finished selling their version.

To be fair, Dapol have spent so long doing the 142 that when they began it was actually an NER Autocar and by the time the land in the UK we will have futuristic hydrogen trains.

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 Whilst it may not be as detailed as the DJM model, it is on the market as it were. I am sure a detailing kit would make the Hornby offering more than acceptable. The only other point is the haulage power, the Hornby model with its 5 pole motor is a smooth runner, however if it only drives one set of bogies the haulage capabilities may be affected, so a bit of extra ballast on board may be needed. All that said if the DJM model comes to fruition it will almost certainly be worth waiting for. Hornby have a habit of trying to undercut other announcements (CL66 vs Hattons) and they will hope that a few people take the cheaper option.

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Hornby's 92 has been in the range for a long time now - must be nearly 25 years, they've already done a GBRF one (if not more). IMO the issue with it is that it looks really 'plasticky', which is most obvious on the GBRF and DB Schenker models. Detailing will undoubtedly help, but it's just a bit of a train set model.

I'm sure the DJM one will be a vastly better model, but you can't blame Hornby for continuing to release theirs.

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I would see this move as a sign they expect Dave to deliver, they have cheaper versions of a number of models now where there is a super detailed version here or on the way.

I see this as a sign that they see demand for the 92 and will cash in on people waiting for the DJM version if/ when it appears. They have the tooling the model owes them nothing so why not use it for a quick win.

Mark

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I notice that Hornby are bringing out a Class 92 model of 92043 in GBRf livery. (It was formerly named ‘Debussy’.)....

 

...92043 in this livery would make a superb, attractive pair with the DJM model of 92032, also in GBRf Europorte livery.

 

Might be time for anyone else who feels the same to contact Dave and suggest adding this to the list of Class 92 versions he is offering. Or possibly Hattons, who are already offering several versions of the DJM Class 92, might consider it.

 

Why? Unless it is a one-off livery, or a notable locomotive (name, of achievement) I see no point exactly duplicating the loco number of one being produced by another manufacturer, if other examples are available.

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Why? Unless it is a one-off livery, or a notable locomotive (name, of achievement) I see no point exactly duplicating the loco number of one being produced by another manufacturer, if other examples are available.

 

But Hornby aren't looking at it like that, although they are no doubt aware of DJ's intent. Surely Hornby look at it as "we have X number of production slots, what can we bring out of the tool bank and paint in an attractive livery to make a few pounds?" And by whatever tick list they use to decide that the GBRf 92 obviously ticks enough boxes to earn its place in the range.

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But Hornby aren't looking at it like that, although they are no doubt aware of DJ's intent. Surely Hornby look at it as "we have X number of production slots, what can we bring out of the tool bank and paint in an attractive livery to make a few pounds?" And by whatever tick list they use to decide that the GBRf 92 obviously ticks enough boxes to earn its place in the range.

I think you misunderstood my comment. I was asking why you would ask DJM to produce 92043 as a GBRf example if Hornby were producing it. There are a couple of examples to choose from and DJM are doing 92032, I see no point asking Dave to produce 92043 as well.

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I think you misunderstood my comment. I was asking why you would ask DJM to produce 92043 as a GBRf example if Hornby were producing it. There are a couple of examples to choose from and DJM are doing 92032, I see no point asking Dave to produce 92043 as well.

Before getting excited about numbers, lets get an EP first.

Who knows what twists and turns will occur before that.

Edited by adb968008
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