NEW OO gauge Crowdfunded Class 92 initiative

[37081LochLong]

OK I know I said earlier that I only wanted the Caledonian one if one became available in the future as the others were of no interest to me... Well i've done that fatal mistake of looking at photos on Flickr and Videos on Youtube and decided that i should get one of the others anyway! It's took me 2 days to decide which one though, i already have Hornbys DB Schenker and a triple grey one and needed something a bit different which left EWS and GBRf and as I only own a 66 in GBRf that's the one i've gone and expressed my interest in!

Yep, I'm weak!

[njee20]

I'm twitching over an EWS one. Don't need three, but it's now or never!

[No Decorum]

I'm twitching over an EWS one. Don't need three, but it's now or never!

Now or never? Hm. I’m tempted but I’m still keeping my powder dry. Hurry up, 71!

[njee20]

Now is relative obviously, but I'm presuming they're to be done on a 'single batch' basis. Better to buy too many and sell any unwanted ones rather than be forced to pay exorbitant second hand prices!

 

Better to be the extorter than the extortee

[No Decorum]

A good point very neatly expressed, if I may say so. Are you on a commission from Dave? If not, why not?

[Paragon]

Late to the party, nevertheless interest registered for 92030.

Regards

Jon

Paragon

[daz9284]

Hi Dave

 

I don't know if this has been asked, but are you in discussions with GBRf/Serco with regards the Caledonian sleeper 92's?

 

regards,

Darryl

[MRDBLUE17]

Cheers for confirming the order on the list of names Dave. I've put in for 2 but had no confirmation email but you clearly have it so all good.

Thanks

Mark

[njee20]

A good point very neatly expressed, if I may say so. Are you on a commission from Dave? If not, why not?

Not yet, but I'm easily bought!

[DJM Dave]

Hi everyone,

 

I've been collating figures and numbers today for this project and have put them down in a chart which  will update every week.

 

To keep figures secret from prying eyes, I've made each block count for x amount of items 'expressed' but it gives you all an idea of the split between models people require. I found it very interesting looking at that. (oh and the OO and N are different figures so their chart looks different.

 

Anyway, for now, enjoy speculating and don't forget to 'express an interest' soon.       http://djmodels.co.uk/?page_id=47

Cheers

Dave

[Great Western]

I don't want to be accused of wish listing again, although I will claim some credit for igniting this project with Dave however is there any chance of a European Passnger Services loco?

 

I'm going to express for the RfD and SNCF later.

 

Regards

[DJM Dave]

I don't want to be accused of wish listing again, although I will claim some credit for igniting this project with Dave however is there any chance of a European Passnger Services loco?

 

I'm going to express for the RfD and SNCF later.

 

Regards

Lol,

 

Glory hunter. I had permission from GBRf and DBS 3 years ago. lol

[Philip Jackson]

A class 92 is not on my wish list but I hope it does well as this will encourage other crowdfunding projects

[Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge]

Interest registered in 92016!!! Personal favourite (no overhead wires even pass through my station so I need an excuse now)

Edited August 29, 2016 by Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge

[brushman47544]

is there any chance of a European Passnger Services loco?

 

 

I didn't think Dave was offering unmotorised versions for "dumped round the back of the depot" scenes.

 

I too wish the project success, but sectorisation or later is too "late" for me.

[mikeharvey22]

Hi,

I know it's slightly messy but it will actually be, as you say, 3 payments, but not the way you've allocated them.

1st payment is a small one (relatively) for the cad/cam

2nd payment will be for 1st ep tooling to commence

3rd and last payment will be for 2nd ep tooling to commence.

There will be a postage component added in there somewhere but it will probably be in the 2nd ep payment.

After that, sit back, wait for deco samples, running samples (on you tube), DCC samples (on you

And like I've said, paying by credit card only will give you satisfaction in having your purchase insured.

Cheers

Dave

Dave

 

Can you explain the credit card insurance, please? As far as I can see the Consumer Credit Act Chargeback only applies to individual transactions between £100 and £30000, not to 3 separate transactions as stage payments with an aggregate amount for the item in the £100 to £30000 range. How would the purchaser of one locomotive be covered if it was defective and DJM was not available to reimburse, especially if none of the stage payments exceeded £100?

 

Mike

[DJM Dave]

Dave

Can you explain the credit card insurance, please? As far as I can see the Consumer Credit Act Chargeback only applies to individual transactions between £100 and £30000, not to 3 separate transactions as stage payments with an aggregate amount for the item in the £100 to £30000 range. How would the purchaser of one locomotive be covered if it was defective and DJM was not available to reimburse, especially if none of the stage payments exceeded £100?

Mike

Hi Mike,

I'll look into this some more, but I was under the impression that as long as the purchase was for over £100.00 ( in this case the total purchase price is) there is cover.

 

Indeed looking at the financial ombudsman's web site page on this matter it states £100 minimum to £30,000 maximum on goods. Not that the payment must be paid as a single transaction merely that the item must be £100 or over. The price for the class 92 is in 3 parts to get a model. The model is over £100.00 so I envisage that to be the case.

 

With regards to the stage payments, the first one will be in low double figures, with the second and third higher but if customers would prefer to pay the remaining balance outright, then fine, I can do that if it helps all crowd funders.

Cheers

Dave

[Great Western]

I didn't think Dave was offering unmotorised versions for "dumped round the back of the depot" scenes.

 

I too wish the project success, but sectorisation or later is too "late" for me.

92040 only worked for a handful of years, then spend the next 20 either at Loughborugh or Crewe IEMD.

[mikeharvey22]

Dave

 

Thanks for the clarification on the instalments. Found this piece of detail in moneysavingsupermarket.com "The law's specific on this, you get the protection for the whole cost of an item or service, even if you only pay for a part of it on credit. The only condition is that what you're buying costs more than £100 and less than £30,000." So provided the stage payments are instalments for the final item, and not related to CAD, tooling etc. it should work.

 

Mike

[GWRtrainman]

Dave

 

Thanks for the clarification on the instalments. Found this piece of detail in moneysavingsupermarket.com "The law's specific on this, you get the protection for the whole cost of an item or service, even if you only pay for a part of it on credit. The only condition is that what you're buying costs more than £100 and less than £30,000." So provided the stage payments are instalments for the final item, and not related to CAD, tooling etc. it should work.

 

Mike

Hi,

I think it could get more complex than that. Especially if the card companies realise there is a problem and they start seeing multiple claims.

 

Firstly it would depend what each stage payment is paying for. If the first one is for the CAD - then provided the CAD is produced no one would have the right to claim for it not being 'delivered'. Same for later stages if the purchase is for 'tooling',  The deliverable might not be considered to be the loco for the majority of what we are actually paying for, but rather the development and tooling costs. In posting 27 Dave outlines the payments as all being for cad and tooling.

 

From memory there is also a 180 day limit on claims using the Act - so if you pay for all the tooling and cad in one year, but it then takes 181 days for the actual product to be manufactured, delivered and the fault to arise - or the person holding your money to fail to deliver it , then I suspect you'll be out of luck and have no claim.

 

Then you have to check who you are actually paying - if it's a 3rd party such as Paypal (possibly kickstarter, I'm not sure how that works) then you lose the rights against the supplier anyway. If the Payment is going direct to the manufacturer (i.e. DJM) then he may be in breach of his credit card merchant terms as most require that the goods are supplied within 30 days of payment. Taking deposits etc is something you have to agree with a card company before you start taking any money - else again they could decide the whole deal is in breach of merchant conditions. Either way the person running the scheme should be under no illusion that a credit card company won't simply pay up and sit back. They'll come chasing for their payouts. We used to own a Guest House - as we took deposits the card company held all our funds for 90 days. That will impact on the DJM cashflow and ability to progress whilst that money is on hold.

 

So your most likely solution if you have serious problems is Small Claims Court against either the Ltd Company (if DJM is), or Dave himself. Assuming you can off load the liability to a credit card provider in this way is probably not something the card companies are going to be particularly happy to see happen! Especially as Dave has publicly stated he's using it as a form of insurance against failure.

 

Best to ask your credit card company if you are covered in this type of situation if you are worried.

[No Decorum]

Don't they say that possession is nine tenths of the law? Once you have parted with money it can be difficult to get it back, even if right is on your side. I’d agree that a credit card company would try to wriggle out of a refund if it legally could.

 

If I recall correctly, the 71 was funded by money being given to a third party (Kernow) with a good reputation. It was to be kept in a separate account and a refund was promised if the order was cancelled at any time up to delivery. This was done because of the unwelcome fees charged by the crowdfunding company.

 

It seemed a reasonable idea to me. There would always be a risk that people would withdraw once they had a Hornby 71 but there is no such risk evident here, not yet at any rate, because no-one else has announced a 92.

[James Makin]

If you're looking to buy more than one of the same model (the SNCF), do you need to register interest several times, or will quantity be finalised once the payment stage happens? I've put my name down for the SNCF but it didn't have the option to register for 3!

 

Many thanks,

James

[sorabain]

Hi,

 

 A couple of questions:

 

Firstly, I attempted to register interest for some 92s over the weekend, and from perusing the thread it looks like there's usually an email response, but I didn't receive one (nothing in junk either). I see that others had problems with this earlier on, does the problem remain?

 

Secondly, regarding the DCC sound option. Will the sound files installed be from an existing well-known supplier so that we can hear the proposed sounds in advance, or will it be something new? Apologies if i've missed this being specified somewhere earlier in the thread.

 

Regards,

 

  Sorabain

[njee20]

Firstly, I attempted to register interest for some 92s over the weekend, and from perusing the thread it looks like there's usually an email response, but I didn't receive one (nothing in junk either). I see that others had problems with this earlier on, does the problem remain

I don't think anyone received an email, so I wouldn't worry!

[JSpencer]

Don't they say that possession is nine tenths of the law? Once you have parted with money it can be difficult to get it back, even if right is on your side. I’d agree that a credit card company would try to wriggle out of a refund if it legally could.

 

If I recall correctly, the 71 was funded by money being given to a third party (Kernow) with a good reputation. It was to be kept in a separate account and a refund was promised if the order was cancelled at any time up to delivery. This was done because of the unwelcome fees charged by the crowdfunding company.

 

It seemed a reasonable idea to me. There would always be a risk that people would withdraw once they had a Hornby 71 but there is no such risk evident here, not yet at any rate, because no-one else has announced a 92.

 

I ordered 2 crowd funded 71s, but recently pulled out of one after Hattons offered the DJM model in Golden Arrows colours. In fact I had ordered an early green one because I thought/hoped/intended it for Golden Arrow service.

The Hattons one is more expensive, but it comes with GA plates. In fairness, the cancelled item was replaced by the same item in GA form and number and done before production figures were fixed.

However I did not cancel because the Hornby one came out.

 

I am interested in the new 92, but not in the liveries currently proposed. Rather than rush in and buy something similar, I'll wait. I know that will be more expensive, might never happen but I prefer that than false the starts and stats and believe it will be fairer all round.

 

However IF the one I'd like were there now, I feel entirely confident in DJM over the money and eventually delivering.