Turning train at Chesterfield

[Squirrel]

We went on the Kings Cross to Chesterfield train pulled by Tornado yesterday. I was surprised on the return journey the whole train had been turned, rather than the loco turned and run-around. I assume the train must have been taken round a loop somewhere as it seems unlikely every carriage would have been decoupled and turned on a turntable, then the train reassembled.

 

Where is the loop that could accomodate this?

[phil-b259]

We went on the Kings Cross to Chesterfield train pulled by Tornado yesterday. I was surprised on the return journey the whole train had been turned, rather than the loco turned and run-around. I assume the train must have been taken round a loop somewhere as it seems unlikely every carriage would have been decoupled and turned on a turntable, then the train reassembled.

Where is the loop that could accomodate this?

The Hope valley line has a triangular junction with the MML between Chesterfield and Sheffield. Train paths permitting, this would facilitate train reversal.

[Talltim]

Or turn right at Tapton Junction, round the 'Old Road' to Beighton and join the GC through Woodhouse and Darton to join the Midland via the Nunnery Curve and enter Sheffield station from the north. Run down the MML to Chesterfield et voila! (You could do it in reverse as well)

[Squirrel]

I can't quite work out the Hope Valley triangle, but the Woodhouse/Sheffield loop sounds likely.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[jamie92208]

Looking at Realtime trains it ran ECS to Barrow Hill direct via Tapton Junction and had two hours there which would be a convenient place for the loco to be serviced/coaled etc. Then set off at 15.15 to Chesterfield via Beighton and Sheffield as above.

 

Jamie

[Fat Controller]

I can't quite work out the Hope Valley triangle, but the Woodhouse/Sheffield loop sounds likely.

 

Thanks for the replies.

I'd go for the circular route; it doesn't have a reversing movement that involves a tunnel, and means that the train has somewhere to lay over and take on water without getting in the way of timetabled services.

[great central]

I'd go for the circular route; it doesn't have a reversing movement that involves a tunnel, and means that the train has somewhere to lay over and take on water without getting in the way of timetabled services.

I'm not sure that a reversal could be done on the triangle at Dore, may not even be available as a signalled move. A couple of years ago, I was on an ECS from Manchester to Nottingham which should have used the west to south curve. If I recall correctly the points exiting the curve onto the main line were faulty but only discovered once we were sat on the curve. We had to go back through Totley tunnel to Grindleford to cross over before returning through the tunnel to then go into Sheffield, swap ends and finally head off to Nottingham! Took best part of an hour with all the faffing about

[Squirrel]

Looking at Realtime trains it ran ECS to Barrow Hill direct via Tapton Junction and had two hours there which would be a convenient place for the loco to be serviced/coaled etc. Then set off at 15.15 to Chesterfield via Beighton and Sheffield as above.Jamie

Thanks. I have a bit to learn about extracting the right info from Realtime trains.

 

That would have been an interesting trip on its own.

[gparr]

Watched you on the return leg pass through Nottingham. Sadly I had been drinking when i realised was coming, other wise would have gone out in car to a more suitable location.

[jamie92208]

Thanks. I have a bit to learn about extracting the right info from Realtime trains.

 

That would have been an interesting trip on its own.

All I did was a search n Chesterfield and looked through all trains. It was shown as a Kings Cross to Chesterfield Service Northbound as a class 1 then a Chesterfield to Barrow Hill Class 5 train, then a class 5 ECS working Barrow Hill to Chesterfield and finally another Class 1 working from Chesterfield. Not the easiest to find.

 

Jamie

[D854_Tiger]

I can't quite work out the Hope Valley triangle, but the Woodhouse/Sheffield loop sounds likely.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

If there was a diesel at the other end (quite common nowadays) then it should be quite easy.

 

I was travelling on a Virgin XC HST from Newcastle towards Birmingham when a friendly local near Swinton bricked the driver's windscreen.

 

Driver was fine but at Sheffield the train manager came round to inform us there would be some delay as we would now have to run in the reverse direction.

 

I too assumed we would be heading towards Beighton but was intrigued to find we were heading south at reduced speed.

 

We did indeed reverse on the Dore triangle using two crossovers controlled by the box at Totley.

 

I assumed it being late Saturday evening was the reason the Beighton route was unavailable, perhaps signal box closures at that time of the week, rather than driver route knowledge.

 

I was quite pleased as the Dore curve was new to me and the same evening we were sent round the Whitacre loop as well, another first at the time.

[beast66606]

I'm not sure that a reversal could be done on the triangle at Dore, may not even be available as a signalled move. A couple of years ago, I was on an ECS from Manchester to Nottingham which should have used the west to south curve. If I recall correctly the points exiting the curve onto the main line were faulty but only discovered once we were sat on the curve. We had to go back through Totley tunnel to Grindleford to cross over before returning through the tunnel to then go into Sheffield, swap ends and finally head off to Nottingham! Took best part of an hour with all the faffing about

 

The curve is used quite often so must be in good fettle.

 

It's certainly signalled, biut whether todays railway would allow such a move is probably more the issue.

[18B]

D854_Tiger - you wouldn't have used the Dore cross over,

 

what would have hapened is that the line from Dore station is single so as you headed towards Dore box the other single line from the south side of the triangle came in, thus once behind the peg for the south curve you'd be right away towards Chesterfield, no need for crossovers as they are single lines (Unbelievably! and one of the most congested pieces of track in the area)

[ColinK]

Can be very frustrating when the whole train is turned. I was on one of the early tours with Tornado, up the WCML to Glasgow in last but one coach. Looked forward to being in second coach on the way back over Beattock and Shap. The whole train was turned at Glasgow, so in the last but one coach again. Very disappointing. The experience put me off going on other steam tours.

[Squirrel]

I am accumulating questions to ask of the tour operators when booking. As we use the 1st Class non-dining, sometimes there are complementary snacks, so that's one question. Another is how is the train treated at the other end, loco turned or train turned. There will be others,

[Talltim]

In the US passenger trains are/were often turned whole before arriving at the terminus. This is done with the passengers on the train. Some stations even had balloon loops specifically for this purpose.

[jamie92208]

I am accumulating questions to ask of the tour operators when booking. As we use the 1st Class non-dining, sometimes there are complementary snacks, so that's one question. Another is how is the train treated at the other end, loco turned or train turned. There will be others,

There are also some quite long distance reversing moves with a conductor standing in the vestibule of what becomes the leading coach passing signal sightings to the engineer. I was involved in one such move in Chicago when something went wrong with the jumper cables and the engineer couldn't drive from the cab car at the leading end. Neither did we have lights or power operated doors in the coaches. After a 20 minute delay at Western Avenue station we set off with a conductor, who had some sort of engineer's qualification standing in the vestibule with his radio and the engineer driving from the loco at the rear of the train.

 

Jamie

[Reorte]

D854_Tiger - you wouldn't have used the Dore cross over,

 

what would have hapened is that the line from Dore station is single so as you headed towards Dore box the other single line from the south side of the triangle came in, thus once behind the peg for the south curve you'd be right away towards Chesterfield, no need for crossovers as they are single lines (Unbelievably! and one of the most congested pieces of track in the area)

Wasn't there talk about redoubling Dore?

[jamie92208]

Wasn't there talk about redoubling Dore?

 

I think it's on the cards but don't know what the current status is.  IIRC one of the potential difficulties was access to the other platform but I think that that's been sorted.

 

Jamie

[18B]

Doubling dore Junction will requjire the rebuilding of the second platform. that is supposed to be being done as part of the belated northern hub...........

[D854_Tiger]

D854_Tiger - you wouldn't have used the Dore cross over,

 

what would have hapened is that the line from Dore station is single so as you headed towards Dore box the other single line from the south side of the triangle came in, thus once behind the peg for the south curve you'd be right away towards Chesterfield, no need for crossovers as they are single lines (Unbelievably! and one of the most congested pieces of track in the area)

 

It was a winter's evening and dark so I was a very naughty boy and lent out of the door window to observe proceedings.

 

We definitely ran up to Totley Tunnel Signalbox then used the crossover there to reverse back on to the Sheffield bound track (not sure if it's up or down) and approached Dore West Junction as if coming normally from Chinley then crossed over again in order to take the single track south curve.

 

Presumably the signalling arrangement at the time (must be over ten years ago by now) dictated such a move.