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Does anyone have a clear view of the success of current operations of the Caledonian Sleepers.  Are the

Class 73 conversions now running OK for example?.  .  How often are the 'guests' being turned out in

the middle of the night at Edinburgh and bunged into coaches.  Are Serco making a good do of it?

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The trains seem to be running ok at the moment apart from strike action by the hired in Scotrail Guards north of Edinburgh.

 

The Fort Bill portion is 2x73/9, the Inverness and Aberdeen portions are a 73/9 in multi with a 66/7 until the full compliment of 73/9s are available.

 

The 73/9s are going back to BRUSH for rectification work to their traction alternators one by one.

 

South of Edinburgh, traction could be anything from a 86, a 87, 90s and 92s....

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Last week on Monday evening was double head class 73 going through Spean Bridge to Glasgow and class 66 / class 73 on Sunday morning in Inverness. The livery, in my opinion, on the Class 73s does nothing for them. The support coach. - Virgin livery was on Spean Bridge service in shocking state of paint, paint peeling off roof etc. Not the best example to set for the many foreign tourists that were in Fort William

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I often see the s/bound Highland sleeper in the morning, and it is still mostly a Frieghtliner 90.

Powerhaul livery with Caledonian sleepers does look a little odd.

There doesn't seem to be any emphasis on reliverying the old stock.

Dave

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Last week on Monday evening was double head class 73 going through Spean Bridge to Glasgow and class 66 / class 73 on Sunday morning in Inverness. The livery, in my opinion, on the Class 73s does nothing for them. The support coach. - Virgin livery was on Spean Bridge service in shocking state of paint, paint peeling off roof etc. Not the best example to set for the many foreign tourists that were in Fort William

I am actually rather the opposite. I feel that the Caley Sleeper brand and identity is now the smarted out there, and sits rather nicely on the 73s - Especially compared to some of the more garish livery the class have carried, First GBRF & SWT Desiro for example. As for the ex VT Mk2 - It and a few Intercity liveried examples are still on hire from Riviera Trains at the moment, and only tend to stick to being used as the seated portions of the Fort William bound portion. Yes I agree it's not ideal, but as it should only be temporary while Serco has it's own vehicles under maintenance I can see why.

 

I've used it 5 times in the past year - No issues to report. Staff have been excellent and on the only recent time I have suffered disruption (Due to NR EGIP Engineering Works overrunning) they were very welcoming and helpful. Especially given the fact we where due to be terminated at Perth as a result and placed onto the following ScotRail service before finding a last minute guard who was able to go up to Inverness - and so we went on, becoming a day service as well. No qualms from me, and actually felt that FGW could pick up some tips for their Night Rivera service from Caledonian Sleeper!

 

Oh and the food - if you book standard/first is excellent!

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I am actually rather the opposite. I feel that the Caley Sleeper brand and identity is now the smarted out there, and sits rather nicely on the 73s - Especially compared to some of the more garish livery the class have carried, First GBRF & SWT Desiro for example. As for the ex VT Mk2 - It and a few Intercity liveried examples are still on hire from Riviera Trains at the moment, and only tend to stick to being used as the seated portions of the Fort William bound portion. Yes I agree it's not ideal, but as it should only be temporary while Serco has it's own vehicles under maintenance I can see why.I've used it 5 times in the past year - No issues to report. Staff have been excellent and on the only recent time I have suffered disruption (Due to NR EGIP Engineering Works overrunning) they were very welcoming and helpful. Especially given the fact we where due to be terminated at Perth as a result and placed onto the following ScotRail service before finding a last minute guard who was able to go up to Inverness - and so we went on, becoming a day service as well. No qualms from me, and actually felt that FGW could pick up some tips for their Night Rivera service from Caledonian Sleeper!Oh and the food - if you book standard/first is excellent!

Looking at other photos I can see what you mean, the examples I saw seemed much greener and flat, could be they were very dirty.

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I often see the s/bound Highland sleeper in the morning, and it is still mostly a Frieghtliner 90.

Powerhaul livery with Caledonian sleepers does look a little odd.

There doesn't seem to be any emphasis on reliverying the old stock.

Dave

They're not going to relivery the old stock. A Fort Bill portion (BUO, RLO AND 2xSLEP) was liveried, along with a class 67 for the launch, but that's it. The new coaches will be here in two years or less, so Serco are saving their money. I think they might've been told by the Scottish government not to relivery because of the waste. Rather like GWR aren't reliverying their HSTs as they will be replaced by the IEP soon enough. Again just the one set for launch.

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Looking at other photos I can see what you mean, the examples I saw seemed much greener and flat, could be they were very dirty.

 

As mentioned on another thread, they don't get washed too often because they have a problem with water ingress....

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Out trip on the Caledonian sleeper to Aberdeen last year was not particularly pleasant. On previous trips we had food on the train but the buffet car was wedged and despite queuing not one person got served in the time we waited. We eventually gave up and went to bed starving apart from a couple of biscuits. Parts of the compartment were so worn that it was falling apart including the blind which had come out of its track.

 

However the return journey from Edinburgh was a much better experience although we didnt try the buffet as we ate before getting on the train.

 

Just debating with my other half as to whether we should chance the sleeper again in a planned up coming trip or just fly there and back.

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I believe so - 1,600 hp diesel electric or third rail.

 

I wonder how practicable it would have been to go the whole hog and equip them for 25kv overhead as well.

 

I'm just astonished that these 3rd rail hybrids were chosen for operation in Scotland, for use on trains that do operate on 25kv OHLE, but never go near a 3rd rail. Surely an efficient electro-diesel approach would have been the creation of a 25kv / diesel hybrid, obviating the need for a loco change at the end of the wires? And is it right that the 73s on the Inverness portion don't even contribute to hauling the train, and are effectively just used as ETHELs? The whole thing just seems eccentric!

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I'm just astonished that these 3rd rail hybrids were chosen for operation in Scotland, for use on trains that do operate on 25kv OHLE, but never go near a 3rd rail. Surely an efficient electro-diesel approach would have been the creation of a 25kv / diesel hybrid, obviating the need for a loco change at the end of the wires? And is it right that the 73s on the Inverness portion don't even contribute to hauling the train, and are effectively just used as ETHELs? The whole thing just seems eccentric!

 

I believe that the 73s on the Inverness and Aberdeen portions are currently just being used as ETHELs, but will in the future be used double headed. i think there aren't enough available at the moment as they are having to return to RVEL for some modifications. I think that one could do the Aberdeen portion alone, but Serco want two for reliability. Inverness is too steep for a single one though. 

 

I am surprised that they are being used in the highlands. It comes down to GBRf winning the loco contract, and what they have available. The 73s are basically new locos after overhaul though. I wonder if you could remove one half of the insides of a 92 (as all the equipment is duplicated) and fit in a whopping great diesel engine? Otherwise the only bi-mode loco is the class 88, but the diesel engine in that is tiny, its only designed for pulling off an electrified mainline to a sidings complex, or a short mainline. No where near enough power to haul a train up the WHL, HML or Aberdeen route. 

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I wonder if you could remove one half of the insides of a 92 (as all the equipment is duplicated) and fit in a whopping great diesel engine? Otherwise the only bi-mode loco is the class 88, but the diesel engine in that is tiny, its only designed for pulling off an electrified mainline to a sidings complex, or a short mainline. No where near enough power to haul a train up the WHL, HML or Aberdeen route. 

 

The problem in doing that is you then rule the 92s out of being available for GBRF if freight traffic through the Channel tunnel picks up - which is the whole reason much of the equipment is duplicated in the first place! Rebuilding would also be a very expensive process - its far cheaper and effective to order new traction outright (with all the benefits of enhanced manufacturer support you tend to get these days) if you want such a radical change - and flog the 92s off to Bulgaria if it comes to it.

 

The 73 rebuild - as with the 57 conversion a decade or so earlier is a far simpler exercise and doesn't fundamentally alter the abilities of the locomotives - the rebuilt machines can be used in exactly the same way as their predecessors.

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I'm just astonished that these 3rd rail hybrids were chosen for operation in Scotland, for use on trains that do operate on 25kv OHLE, but never go near a 3rd rail. Surely an efficient electro-diesel approach would have been the creation of a 25kv / diesel hybrid, obviating the need for a loco change at the end of the wires? And is it right that the 73s on the Inverness portion don't even contribute to hauling the train, and are effectively just used as ETHELs? The whole thing just seems eccentric!

 

Given the 3 highland sleepers combine at Edinburgh for the run down to Euston having to swap locos is not the issue you seem to think it is. If anything the proposed operation is actually very effective - have a high powered 25KV machine to run up and down the WCML hauling the  combined 16* coach train while having Scottish based diesels to haul the 4 - 8 coach* portions onwards.

 

* I am not sure of the exact split - and some portions have a couple of day coaches added / taken off at Edinburgh to cater for internal Scottish traffic

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Given the 3 highland sleepers combine at Edinburgh for the run down to Euston having to swap locos is not the issue you seem to think it is. If anything the proposed operation is actually very effective - have a high powered 25KV machine to run up and down the WCML hauling the  combined 16* coach train while having Scottish based diesels to haul the 4 - 8 coach* portions onwards.

 

* I am not sure of the exact split - and some portions have a couple of day coaches added / taken off at Edinburgh to cater for internal Scottish traffic

Fair point, I see that. The rebuilt 73s must be assumed to be lined up for sleeper duties for the next 10 years at least though - during which time it must be doubtful that any of them will connect to a 3rd rail. There must be some sort of record for a locomotive in daily service, equipped to use, but never using, an optional power source.....

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* I am not sure of the exact split - and some portions have a couple of day coaches added / taken off at Edinburgh to cater for internal Scottish traffic

Glasgow and Edinburgh both get an eight coach portion. Usually it is then two sleepers to Fort William, with the brake coach and lounge coach added at Edinburgh, eight coach portion to Inverness and remaining six coach portion to Aberdeen. This does fluctuate though depending on season and economy. Aberdeen was big business when oil prices were high, but as that economy is in the cellar that portion isn't as busy. Inverness and Fort William both get busier during the summer with tourists. During the last winter when Serco were having a lot of stock reliability problems the Highland portion dropped down to 13 or 14 coaches, losing sleepers. Fort William portion can get up to four sleepers in busy periods.

 

The day coaches for the Fort William portion are removed at Edinburgh as with them left in the train would be too long to fit in Euston. They are added as you have to have a brake coach and a lounge coach is expected on the sleeper, especially travelling for four hours on one of our most scenic lines. These two coaches (but not the sleepers) do however operate as a normal internal Scotland train, so you can get a normal ticket on them.

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The day coaches for the Fort William portion are removed at Edinburgh as with them left in the train would be too long to fit in Euston. They are added as you have to have a brake coach and a lounge coach is expected on the sleeper, especially travelling for four hours on one of our most scenic lines. These two coaches (but not the sleepers) do however operate as a normal internal Scotland train, so you can get a normal ticket on them.

I thought that Serco had stopped passengers from joining at Edinburgh for Fort William unless they booked a sleeper - has that now changed? I took it once or twice when it was FirstScotrail as a day passenger.

Mal

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The day coaches for the Fort William portion are removed at Edinburgh as with them left in the train would be too long to fit in Euston. They are added as you have to have a brake coach and a lounge coach is expected on the sleeper, especially travelling for four hours on one of our most scenic lines. These two coaches (but not the sleepers) do however operate as a normal internal Scotland train, so you can get a normal ticket on them.

I thought that the lounge coach was only available to sleeper passengers. Anyway if you've not been on it before it's well worth doing to Fort William, a morning cup of tea in the lounge coach as it's heading over Rannoch Moor is a pretty great experience (and the inside and outside contrast was somewhat surreal once when I did the journey in bad weather).

I thought that Serco had stopped passengers from joining at Edinburgh for Fort William unless they booked a sleeper - has that now changed? I took it once or twice when it was FirstScotrail as a day passenger.

You certainly used to be able to join at intermediate stations (and not much call for sleeping from Spean Bridge to Fort William); it's a couple of years since I've used it though so it may have all changed with Serco.
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I thought that the lounge coach was only available to sleeper passengers. Anyway if you've not been on it before it's well worth doing to Fort William, a morning cup of tea in the lounge coach as it's heading over Rannoch Moor is a pretty great experience (and the inside and outside contrast was somewhat surreal once when I did the journey in bad weather).You certainly used to be able to join at intermediate stations (and not much call for sleeping from Spean Bridge to Fort William); it's a couple of years since I've used it though so it may have all changed with Serco.

I think you're maybe right and the lounge coach is just for sleeper passengers. In truth I've never been on it. I just take a keen interest. I live in Paisley so it's no use to me. Might try the Glasgow to London one someday to see family. Although I think my 4 year old would be too excited to sleep. I wish there was still a cross country one. A Glasgow to Bristol or Cornwall sleeper would be very useful for me.

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I think you're maybe right and the lounge coach is just for sleeper passengers. In truth I've never been on it. I just take a keen interest. I live in Paisley so it's no use to me. Might try the Glasgow to London one someday to see family. Although I think my 4 year old would be too excited to sleep. I wish there was still a cross country one. A Glasgow to Bristol or Cornwall sleeper would be very useful for me.

 

Lounge coach is for sleeper passengers only, with 1st class ticket holders (nominally, but rarely in practice) given priority therein. Those using the recliner seats are supposed to use a serving hatch to purchase snacks/drinks at their end.

I used to use the Aberdeen sleeper on a regular basis, and like you I much lament the Bristol/Plymouth sleeper.

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Fair point, I see that. The rebuilt 73s must be assumed to be lined up for sleeper duties for the next 10 years at least though - during which time it must be doubtful that any of them will connect to a 3rd rail. There must be some sort of record for a locomotive in daily service, equipped to use, but never using, an optional power source.....

The same could be said for some 92, although there is some third rail on the Caledonian Sleepers normal route...

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