Sharpy1071 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Hi there, I'm new to railway modelling and i have built a 00 gauge layout. I have a new Digitrax Zephyr and everytime i first switch on all the locos move around the track. When i shut the system down I try to follow the book, that is; press Loco, NoXX, Loco, Exit with the power on the track or off (it doesn't appear to make a difference), I then switch off the isolator switch on the wall and then the mains electric. Could anyone point me in the right direction to what I'm doing wrong, please? Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Don't know Digitrax kit at all, might be worth putting this in DCC questions with a slightly fuller title problem description? That said, a good many DCC users have found it helpful in avoiding problems various to have the layout disconnected from the DCC system when power is turned on or off. A single pole switch in one of the track outputs is all that is required; and this switch is made only after the system has been switched on and stabilised, and then opened before the system is switched off when the operating session ends. Obviously you can evaluate whether this is worth doing by just disconnecting and reconnecting one of the track feeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Hi Brian The default for the Zephyr is for the track power to be off when the unit is powered up. Is this the case for yours? If not, the Zephyr can be reset - near the end of the manual you will find the switch settings to do this. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardman Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 You probably have DC operation enabled in your decoders. Try changing the cv's to disable DC operation and the problem should go away. This can vary depending on the make of decoder. Try setting CV12 =0 or Bit 2 of CV29 to 0. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 You probably have DC operation enabled in your decoders. Try changing the cv's to disable DC operation and the problem should go away. This can vary depending on the make of decoder. Try setting CV12 =0 or Bit 2 of CV29 to 0. I have DC enabled in all of my decoders and never had this problem with Digitrax or NCE systems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Thank you to all of you who have helped I will try what has been suggested and let you know, Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I have DC enabled in all of my decoders and never had this problem with Digitrax or NCE systems. It seems to depend more on the exact model of decoder rather than the operating system. I had intermittent funnies on some of the cheaper ones and now disable DC opertion on them all whatever the manufacturer, I use an NCE system. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Hi there, I'm new to railway modelling and i have built a 00 gauge layout. I have a new Digitrax Zephyr and everytime i first switch on all the locos move around the track. When i shut the system down I try to follow the book, that is; press Loco, NoXX, Loco, Exit with the power on the track or off (it doesn't appear to make a difference), I then switch off the isolator switch on the wall and then the mains electric. Could anyone point me in the right direction to what I'm doing wrong, please? Brian. Just checking - you have got decoders in your locos, yes? What you describe is what might be expected of a lot of DC only locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Just checking - you have got decoders in your locos, yes? What you describe is what might be expected of a lot of DC only locos. Hi thanks for interest, yes i have decoders in my Locos. This happens to the DCC trains as well as the DC trains with the track power OFF at the zephyr. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drawed Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hi Brian Sounds like a fault on the Zephyr. If the track is connected to the Rail A and Rail B ports and the track power is set so that the track status light if off, there shouldn't be any power to the track. Has it ever worked? Eddie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardman Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I have DC enabled in all of my decoders and never had this problem with Digitrax or NCE systems. Just because you haven't experienced the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When a DCC supply is first applied to the track decoders with DC enabled look at the supply and decide whether it's DC or DCC. Sometimes they get it wrong and assume the DCC supply is full voltage DC and take off at high speed. It's a well documented problem. Some decoders are more prone to it than others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 I have a mix of DCC and DC on the various tracks. I switched on this morning:- wall, isolater on layout, Zephyr was power off, no lights and they both took off for about 4 seconds, stopped and then nothing until I powered up the loco in the usual way = no power/loco/30/loco, power on and away no 30 went. Frustrating!! No 30 is DCC. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drawed Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 How many DC locos have you got on the track? The Zephyr will only allow you to control one DC loco as address 00 (zero). Eddie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 just one at a time Eddie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drawed Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Have you tried taking all the locos off the layout except one DCC loco and then turning the power on? Does it still start before you press the track power button on the Zephyr? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hi Brian Given the content of the various posts a few possibilites occurred to me. Is your layout wired for common return? And, is there always a common return wire in circuit with the DC controller? Are the DCC and DC operated sections ALWAYS separated by double isolating joints in the track? It may be that you have a mix of DCC and DC and have been extremely lucky not to release the smoke from your Zephyr! Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 This afternoon I wrote to Digitrax and have received a reply which I will try tomorrow(Wed) I have to change a CV down by 4 No'S. ie CV24 go to CV20 or CV38 to CV34. I will give more explanation then, thank you, Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Hi there, well I have tried what Digitrax have suggested and of course it works, they have the answers. This is the reply they sent to me:- The locomotives are seeing power applied to the track but not the DCC packets. Turn off Analog Conversion on your locomotives by subtracting 4 from whatever value is in CV29. If CV29=6 change it to 2, if it is 38 make it 34 etc. So problem solve but another has turned up in as much as when I apply full throttle on DC the track only registers 9.4v! Thank s for all your replies and interest, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 ...So problem solved but another has turned up in as much as when I apply full throttle on DC the track only registers 9.4v... The initial problem description made no mention of a DC controller and locos without decoders on the same layout. Playing 'guessing games' when asking for help is no way to make progress. Physically disconnect the Zephyr track power outputs from the layout. Does the 'full throttle' on track voltage from the DC controller change? If so your layout is wired incorrectly in some significant way. General advice for all but those that really know what they are doing is to run DC only or DCC only, one or the other, do not attempt a mixture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 I guess this is a bollocking from 34theletterbetweenb&d. I made no mention of a DCcontroller because there isn't one it was all run from the Zephyr. By dialling Loc/00/Loco you can run DC only trains one at a time though. It is possible and quite common to run DC and DCC from a Zephyr but not together obviously.!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 My bad for not realising you are using the address 00 capability. And actually the intention was that DCC locos and the single DC loco responding to address 00 could all be operated simultaneously; at least as far as the Lenz system manual is concerned which mentions the capability in those terms. But now we know this, don't use it! This is a 'hangover' from the past and has been found to cause problems, mainly in the way of burnt out loco motors. The way a DC supply is provided is by biasing the DCC signal; it remains an 8kHz square wave, but the peak values of the positive or negative going are increased/attenuated to provide the appropriate DC bias for the selected direction, with no reduction in power available to DCC locos. Because it is still an 8kHz supoly the DC motor chatters all the time; you are relying on the inductance of the motor windings to prevent too much conduction of the alternating component to prevent overheating Not a good way to treat a DC motor. The DC bias estimate you have obtained corresponds to what I found on my Lenz system which also has this feature. Doesn't provide anything like the nominal 12V standard for DC, and subjectively the locos max speed can be seen to be less than a standard DC 12V would yield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 The Loco in question was given to me by my neighbour it hadn't been used for about 30 years and he wanted to see it go. I eventually got it to work, after a major strip down and clean, I wanted to test it as well to see if it is worth putting a decoder into it, which i will now do. It's called 'Oliver Cromwell' tender driven, made by Hornby England, and in beautiful condition as it has been a shelf queen nearly all of its life! Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2016 I think the address 00 is extremely useful for testing the loco you have just bought, by demonstrating that it starts and stops in both directions. A couple of feet there and back, if you like. That's it - remove the loco and install a decoder, confident that the motor and mechanics are basically sound. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy1071 Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Unfortunatly it had a very bad screeching sound coming from the tender. I thought gears or gear spindles. turned out to be the motor bearing by the brushes which doesn't have a felt oil container around it. Solved now so new decoder for the weekend! Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 As Oldddudders commented the '00' analogue address is useful for testing DC locos but extended running is not recommended - the locos make an awful buzzing sound! All my locos have either Bachmann factory fitted decoders or Digitrax - both types are dual use but I have never tried running my one analogue loco on '00' with DCC equipped locos on the track as well. I assume they would not run as they are not being addressed but should go and try it sometime! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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