What Price Modelling East Anglia Beyond 2020

[ben racey]

Sorry, I don't see massive investment in a new fleet and services as a downside! There'll always be modelling possibilities, whether it's through running off the north Norfolk, a short flask train, or even using n gauge if it's really a space issue. Lots of potential and possibilities to model a growing railway!

 

Cheers for now

 

Richard

[Talltim]

John

OK - its coming over to me that space seems to be a bigger problem than price! But my point is still relevant, up to 2020, you can have a layout similar to Sudbury or a little larger running 1, or 2 car units, after this date in East Anglia, this may not be possible. Lets forget about the Rich and concentrate on Mr Average.

 

Kelvin B

Are you say that we shouldn't order new longer trains because it will make it harder to model?

I'm going to ask the US railroads to stop running mile long double stack container trains because I don't have room to model them.

On the point of modern houses, my experience (north Midlands) is that new houses are much the same price as older houses of the same number of bedroom, but have much smaller rooms and are made of cardboard. If you have the money to buy a house, (and I'm aware that in some areas of the country that is hard to do) then buy an older house.

It seems to be one of the peculiarities of the British housing market that houses are valued on number of rooms rather than floor area like they are in most other places and I feel that this is one of the things that has allowed house builders to get away with building small houses

[rob D2]

This applies to a lot of areas.

The GW mainline will be dull as sin with drab green IEP snakes running along it .

 

Great for passengers , not so good for modellers

[Dunsignalling]

Isn't the real issue that, as many of our routes effectively become monocultures in terms of the rolling stock used, there may not be enough of interest to make modelling them worthwhile?  

 

Maybe it's better to freeze one's time-frame to one that can be accommodated or even move it backwards to a period before unitization removed most of the scope for all but very basic operation.

 

After all, those who enjoy the current scene can go out and observe the real thing in action with no concerns about the room it takes up or how much models of 12-car units will cost. I still train-watch (though not as regularly as in the past) but, had I not an established interest, would I even notice any variation in what goes on?  

 

John

[Kelvin B]

Isn't the real issue that, as many of our routes effectively become monocultures in terms of the rolling stock used, there may not be enough of interest to make modelling them worthwhile?  

 

Maybe it's better to freeze one's time-frame to one that can be accommodated or even move it backwards to a period before unitization removed most of the scope for all but very basic operation.

 

After all, those who enjoy the current scene can go out and observe the real thing in action with no concerns about the room it takes up or how much models of 12-car units will cost. I still train-watch (though not as regularly as in the past) but, had I not an established interest, would I even notice any variation in what goes on?  

 

John

John and Rob

 

Agreed 100% - This is what I was trying to say in my original post - Some seem to think I am anti progress - not so. In my post I hinted the upgrades were much needed - its just that I personally have neither the room or the money to model the new units - if they ever get produced. 

 

Regards

 

Kelvin B

[ben racey]

Hi,

 

Sorry, I still don't get it! You do have plenty of choices limited only by your imagination to model in a different scale, model a part of something be it depot, Drs facility or Autumn weed spray trains.... In east Anglia, at Felixstowe, you've even the countries newest traverser built to do just what you want in the port- to save space. I'd love to hear what you do come up with!

 

Cheers for now.

 

Richard

[Kelvin B]

Hi,

 

Sorry, I still don't get it! You do have plenty of choices limited only by your imagination to model in a different scale, model a part of something be it depot, Drs facility or Autumn weed spray trains.... In east Anglia, at Felixstowe, you've even the countries newest traverser built to do just what you want in the port- to save space. I'd love to hear what you do come up with!

 

Cheers for now.

 

Richard

Hi Richard

 

I have five layouts on the circuit at present in 'o' and 'oo' and a 'N' gauge (with my son)  soon to be completed - All are 5' 6" x 2' or less - reason being 'that's the maximum I can get in the car', people often say at exhibitions ' how did you come up with the size of layout'  - I say I measure the back of the car.  I am not a great 'train runner' at home.

 

My current layouts include three depots a small terminus station and an engineers yard. So I can use my imagination. Oh and I also do O gauge industrials on a 4 x 2 layout.  

 

If you have not seen my website. See website section of RM web

 

Hope it is a bit clearer now.

 

Regards

 

Kelvin B

[Wheatley]

I'm not sure exactly what the problem is - that the East Anglian scene will be boring, or that it will still be inspiring but won't fit either the space or budget available ?

 

People model what inspires them, what they can afford, and what they can fit in the room available. Most of  us have to compromise on at least one of those.

[Kelvin B]

I'm not sure exactly what the problem is - that the East Anglian scene will be boring, or that it will still be inspiring but won't fit either the space or budget available ?

 

People model what inspires them, what they can afford, and what they can fit in the room available. Most of  us have to compromise on at least one of those.

Hi wheatley

 

Boring, I don't really know until they arrive. They could inspire with presence and speed! I think the space needed and the price of a 12 car unit (IF anyone produces as a model) is the issue.

With the current 90+stock, there are opportunities to run a loco and one or two mk3's for tyre turning etc. The current short sets are certainly inspiring, but catch them while you can. There is now an Ipswich FP to Lindsey Refinery, a 66 with up to five TTA's - that's inspiring. All these examples are very modelable in a reasonable space, but a twelve car EMU!!!!!!!   

 

Kelvin B

[ben racey]

Hi Richard

 

I have five layouts on the circuit at present in 'o' and 'oo' and a 'N' gauge (with my son) soon to be completed - All are 5' 6" x 2' or less - reason being 'that's the maximum I can get in the car', people often say at exhibitions ' how did you come up with the size of layout' - I say I measure the back of the car. I am not a great 'train runner' at home.

 

My current layouts include three depots a small terminus station and an engineers yard. So I can use my imagination. Oh and I also do O gauge industrials on a 4 x 2 layout.

 

If you have not seen my website. See website section of RM web

 

Hope it is a bit clearer now.

 

Regards

 

Kelvin B

Kelvin,

 

Great stuff,no problems with inspiration then! When I was modelling Chinese steam in HO, I faced the same problem as you, long trains and big vistas and the need to get the layout and crew in a car. So, I modelled part of Changchun steam shed and took it from there. Seemed to work!

 

I wouldn't despair, the railway is expanding and the good news is that there will be a railway to model in the future. Compared to a declining railway with falling traffic and no investment, that's great news.

 

Good luck with your layout planning!

 

Cheers for now.

 

Richard

[Kelvin B]

Kelvin,

 

Great stuff,no problems with inspiration then! When I was modelling Chinese steam in HO, I faced the same problem as you, long trains and big vistas and the need to get the layout and crew in a car. So, I modelled part of Changchun steam shed and took it from there. Seemed to work!

 

I wouldn't despair, the railway is expanding and the good news is that there will be a railway to model in the future. Compared to a declining railway with falling traffic and no investment, that's great news.

 

Good luck with your layout planning!

 

Cheers for now.

 

Richard

Richard

 

Now that's what you call 'thinking out of the box' - Brilliant stuff, modelling China certainly is very different. I did make a American HO layout for a pal, and yes, I did enjoy operating it very much. I have about four BNSF loco's and about ten wagons, so never say never. I guess the displaced Anglian units will find new homes so a change of area is possible. Its just that I have modelled East Anglia since about 1960 to date, yes model railways are habit forming.

 

Thanks for you very constructive comments - believe me it is very welcome.

 

All the best

 

Kelvin B

[Dagworth]

There was I expecting this thread to be about SDABTA and suddenly I find Dagworth getting a mention or three.

Guess I ought to try to open the layout up and have a look at how it has fared in storage sometime. Long term plan is to rebuild the corner boards larger and increase fiddle yard capacity.

 

Andi

[Kelvin B]

There was I expecting this thread to be about SDABTA and suddenly I find Dagworth getting a mention or three.

Guess I ought to try to open the layout up and have a look at how it has fared in storage sometime. Long term plan is to rebuild the corner boards larger and increase fiddle yard capacity.

 

Andi

Hi Andi

 

Smashing to hear from you - I hope you are well. Don't see you post much, just like me! I will always remember me and Keith at Chelmsford, he was trying  to show me what to do, and I was completely transfixed by the technology. Clive got involved as well, I am sure he will comment. I am amazed you still have Dagworth, could the refurbishment lead to Exhibitions again - if it does, get in touch with Pete Rye and do a Stowmarket return in a few years time.

 

I hear a lot of people tell of their favourite layout(s), Dagworth  certainly scores highly on innovation and technology. And yes, I still remember SDABTA, I painted about four loco's for your group in very weird colours and local names.

 

Best Wishes

 

Kelvin B      

[Dagworth]

Hi Andi

 

Smashing to hear from you - I hope you are well. Don't see you post much, just like me! I will always remember me and Keith at Chelmsford, he was trying  to show me what to do, and I was completely transfixed by the technology. Clive got involved as well, I am sure he will comment. I am amazed you still have Dagworth, could the refurbishment lead to Exhibitions again - if it does, get in touch with Pete Rye and do a Stowmarket return in a few years time.

 

I hear a lot of people tell of their favourite layout(s), Dagworth  certainly scores highly on innovation and technology. And yes, I still remember SDABTA, I painted about four loco's for your group in very weird colours and local names.

 

Best Wishes

 

Kelvin B      

I hope that Dagworth will one day be back on the circuit, it never got to Warley so there is still that to aim for

 

And good to see you posting here too Barney, hope life is good to you.

 

Andi

[ruggedpeak]

Had a trip out the other Saturday to visit Scograil in Ipswich (bargain Hornby Caley TTS 67 ) and a bit of Pokemon hunting, took the train up to Ipswich, 153 to Scograil then to Felixstowe for lunch, and back. Ipswich has a lovely Freightliner depot behind the station, loads of 66's and 70's moving about, container trains passing through, 153's and 156's on local runs, the usual Norwich 90's and DVT's passing through, a nice big tunnel at the southern end as a scenic break. And if you go to Norwich you've also got DRS 37's and now 68's (come on Dapol!). Must be quite exciting as 2 blokes were there with a pukka video recorder on a tripod!

 

Further down the line things aren't that exciting but we have tampers parked up and a range of light engine movements, plus AGA Mk3's travelling to and from Wabtech

 

68 at signal check one morning at Witham, southbound with a single AGA Mk3.

 

 

The photos below are all Ipswich one Saturday in July.

 

 

 

 

 

There was loads of movement that day, even within the depot and station. And all are available RTR, subject to some reliverying.

[phil-b259]

Ipswich has a lovely Freightliner depot behind the station, loads of 66's and 70's moving about, container trains passing through

 

There was a rumour doing the rounds a couple of years ago that Freightliner and NR (plus local residents) wanted to shut the depot at Ipswich station in favour of a new one built in the sidings where Freightliners change from diesel to electric traction (since the construction of the Bacon factory curve, plus the impending arrival of Crossrail and limiting the opportunities for freight to use the GEML / NLL corridor the yard is not as vital as it once was to freight operations). Its all gone a bit quiet of late but the idea is probably still knocking about somewhere.

[Talltim]

With every change to the railways, it increases the options of what we could model, history gets 'bigger'. As modellers we lose nothing,

[newbryford]

Had a trip out the other Saturday to visit Scograil in Ipswich (bargain Hornby Caley TTS 67 ) and a bit of Pokemon hunting, took the train up to Ipswich, 153 to Scograil then to Felixstowe for lunch, and back. Ipswich has a lovely Freightliner depot behind the station, loads of 66's and 70's moving about, container trains passing through, 153's and 156's on local runs, the usual Norwich 90's and DVT's passing through, a nice big tunnel at the southern end as a scenic break. And if you go to Norwich you've also got DRS 37's and now 68's (come on Dapol!). Must be quite exciting as 2 blokes were there with a pukka video recorder on a tripod!

 

Further down the line things aren't that exciting but we have tampers parked up and a range of light engine movements, plus AGA Mk3's travelling to and from Wabtech

 

 

68 at signal check one morning at Witham, southbound with a single AGA Mk3.

 

 

The photos below are all Ipswich one Saturday in July.

 

(Pics snipped)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was loads of movement that day, even within the depot and station. And all are available RTR, subject to some reliverying.

 

There's always some rose tinted spectacled miserable g!t who says that the current day scene is boring and is going to get worse.

My reply is - "get out more" and make the best of it. At least it isn't all the same shade of blue, or covered in soot. After all, it's only toy trains and not the end of the world. [rant over]

 

 

Thanks for the pics.

 

Agree about the bargain Scograil TTS Caley 67. Free postage!

 

Cheers,

Mick

[ruggedpeak]

Having been to Ipswich for the first time it seems ripe for modelling. The FL depot has a nice rectangular 2 storey brick and flat roof office/crew facility (in background of the 66/70 shots) plus diesel tanks, with trees and gardens behind, nice tunnel at the south end, through line and plenty of movement. FL were moving a lot of their locos about when we were there, plus the usual AGA EMU's and 90's, container trains as well as the DMU's at the northern end.

 

Even with the new EMU's that are due there should be plenty going on.

[Horsetan]

From the title I thought this thread was going to be an argument about global warming and flooding!

That would make modelling easier, as you could portray this by presenting a tub of muddy water, maybe with the odd tree breaking the surface!

[Kelvin B]

There's always some rose tinted spectacled miserable g!t who says that the current day scene is boring and is going to get worse.

My reply is - "get out more" and make the best of it. At least it isn't all the same shade of blue, or covered in soot. After all, it's only toy trains and not the end of the world. [rant over]

 

 

Thanks for the pics.

 

Agree about the bargain Scograil TTS Caley 67. Free postage!

 

Cheers,

Mick

Oh Dear

 

I did not want anyone to 'rant' - I hope you did not make a mess! 

 

For the record - one more time.

 

I am not anti new units - I unlike some 'enthusiasts' travel by train weekly and have to endure endless delays - units greatly needed.  Not by car and moan because trains are late.

 

If any manufacturer models them I am not saying you can not create a layout to suit the whole prototype.

 

All I am saying is it is likely to be expensive for a 12 car unit. And face it you would need three or four!

 

I am also say that the space needed will need to be larger than I and a lot of modellers have. 

 

So back to my original post ----- price and space are likely to be my problem, remember I was talking OO.

 

What I had hoped for with this post is:-

 

Is the N gauge approach an alternative. Is it better for groups to push N before OO!

 

Is there a group or Club  in East Anglia that are considering doing such a layout. We came very close once with our East Anglian DEMU Group.

 

Thoughts on running short formed formations of the new EMU's 'IF' produced.

 

Doing a layout around the Garden (if you have one) 

 

Will 3D printing help in the future costs.

 

Any other thoughts without ranting or trolling. We are supposed to be adults -  lets keep it that way!

 

This is not a return rant - just an average modeller looking for some ideas.

 

Kelvin B

Average Modeller - not self appointed expert

 

By the way - I am an old git - I also just found out my son has ordered a N Gauge Pendelino -DOH!!!!

[newbryford]

 

Will 3D printing help in the future costs.

 

Any other thoughts without ranting or trolling. We are supposed to be adults -  lets keep it that way!

 

This is not a return rant - just an average modeller looking for some ideas.

 

 

 

Hi Kelvin,

My rant/observation was a general comment. (TBH, it was a general salvo in the direction of a few others on other threads as well - your thread just happened to be wrong place/wrong time - apologies)

 

There has been a discussion (that eventually got locked [*]) about the general dearth of modern/current layouts on the exhibition scene.

One of the points made was the general need for long trains, but if one is prepared to look around, there are a significant number of smaller trains that can easily be modelled.

I'm all up for that!

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

[*] It degenerated into a typical paraffin can/kettle argument

[Kelvin B]

 

Hi Kelvin,

My rant/observation was a general comment. (TBH, it was a general salvo in the direction of a few others on other threads as well - your thread just happened to be wrong place/wrong time - apologies)

 

There has been a discussion (that eventually got locked [*]) about the general dearth of modern/current layouts on the exhibition scene.

One of the points made was the general need for long trains, but if one is prepared to look around, there are a significant number of smaller trains that can easily be modelled.

I'm all up for that!

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

[*] It degenerated into a typical paraffin can/kettle argument

Hi Mick

 

No need to apologise, I know where you are coming from. I know you are top man on Modern Image and have followed your 'yellow' threads for ages. Brilliant work. 

 

Now my son has come clean on his pendelino, he has also now admitted he has two 321's on order in N gauge. I guess I had better swallow my pride and help him build another layout. I fancy a very simple Two Track main line with at least one loop, possible two. Watching trains in the countryside I guess, O/H of course with wire! I think it will have to wait until next spring as I have no where to build it inside - Checked the cars and using his and mine, should just be able to do it. It appears he has the money and I have the time. and the compromise --- its N.

 

Cheers

 

Keep that yellow stuff coming.

 

 

Kelvin B

[Classsix T]

There was a rumour doing the rounds a couple of years ago that Freightliner and NR (plus local residents) wanted to shut the depot at Ipswich station in favour of a new one built in the sidings where Freightliners change from diesel to electric traction (since the construction of the Bacon factory curve, plus the impending arrival of Crossrail and limiting the opportunities for freight to use the GEML / NLL corridor the yard is not as vital as it once was to freight operations). Its all gone a bit quiet of late but the idea is probably still knocking about somewhere.

There's been some significant upgrades to upper yard lately Phil so I'm led to believe FL will eventually move the LIP to East Suffolk Junction, which incidentally would gain road access, lacking at the present site.

A step change I've observed with current operations has been driver changes taking place at Stowmarket. Indeed, FL now occupy the mess room on Platform 1 previously employed by DRS, who have moved to a furnished container in the down yard at SMK. The construction of the aforementioned Bacon Factory avoider being the impetus for this, FL will want to avoid the southern part of the GEML even more when Crossrail kicks off.

 

C6T.

[Kelvin B]

There's been some significant upgrades to upper yard lately Phil so I'm led to believe FL will eventually move the LIP to East Suffolk Junction, which incidentally would gain road access, lacking at the present site.

A step change I've observed with current operations has been driver changes taking place at Stowmarket. Indeed, FL now occupy the mess room on Platform 1 previously employed by DRS, who have moved to a furnished container in the down yard at SMK. The construction of the aforementioned Bacon Factory avoider being the impetus for this, FL will want to avoid the southern part of the GEML even more when Crossrail kicks off.

 

C6T.

Hi Carl

I hope you are well. Your post is exactly what I have heard. The two things I would add to this is that I believe there is/was a medium term plan to add another platform at Ipswich if/when Freightliner vacate the station site and move to the yard. The other thing is that during the relaying of the yard, the Freightliner Loco's  were fuelled at Felixstowe by Road Tanker. I have not seen any photo's of this actually happening, can you help?  I did hear that F/L were very happy with this arrangement, I don't think much servicing happened, only fuel I guess. Are photo's  available somewhere, this would make an ideal small layout and I would be interested in having a go, or a similar situation. I don't know, but other freight companies must surely do this as well. I don't think I ever seen one modelled and as I say it would make a super little layout in say a 5' x 18" space.

 

Cheers

 

Kelvin B