APT POP TRAIN Kit (under design & construction)

[Mol_PMB]

Nice to see models of this historic vehicle. Has anyone got a model of the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch - that would be an ideal location to run an HSFV1 test train!

Test results from HSFV1 were used to validate vehicle dynamics modelling software that is still used across the world to design rail vehicle suspensions - even in Japan.

The only downside was that it encouraged someone to think that a 4-wheel chassis was suitable for a DMU, and we've only just got rid of those damn things!

[Robert Shrives]

Hi Somewhere I have a pic of POP and class 56 of all things along with Labs coaches at Roman Bridge . The curves ideal for something at last other than taking flanges off pacers !   This is the train I hope to create with the N version, day job in the way so might be a while.  

 

IIRC it never made  it through the tunnel - clearance issues I guess or perhaps time prevented it. Kit Will know I am sure...

[Mr_Tilt]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

The only downside was that it encouraged someone to think that a 4-wheel chassis was suitable for a DMU, and we've only just got rid of those damn things!

 

That's because they ignored the fact that human beings don't like low frequency vertical vibration, and the Pacers were never designed with any secondary suspension, unless you count the rather basic seat cushions! 

 

It's interesting to ponder how some soft secondary springs could have been added to the Pacer designs, but no matter what was added it would have increased the cost, and low cost was one of the targets of the project of course.

[Mr_Tilt]

1 hour ago, Robert Shrives said:

Hi Somewhere I have a pic of POP and class 56 of all things along with Labs coaches at Roman Bridge . The curves ideal for something at last other than taking flanges off pacers !   This is the train I hope to create with the N version, day job in the way so might be a while.  

 

IIRC it never made  it through the tunnel - clearance issues I guess or perhaps time prevented it. Kit Will know I am sure...

 

PoP I or PoP II?  And do you mean Roman Bridge Station on the Conwy Valley line? I don't think PoP I ever went that far west, not with me on board anyway. But I do remember PoP II coupled to a 56 in the RTC yard in '77 or '78 some time.

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, Mr_Tilt said:

 

That's because they ignored the fact that human beings don't like low frequency vertical vibration, and the Pacers were never designed with any secondary suspension, unless you count the rather basic seat cushions! 

 

It's interesting to ponder how some soft secondary springs could have been added to the Pacer designs, but no matter what was added it would have increased the cost, and low cost was one of the targets of the project of course.

Those long flat seat cushions used to make Pacers a firm favourite with the night shift at Newton Heath! zzzz....

The wheelbase that matched half a rail length didn't help the ride either. That was a late change to the design I believe.

 

[apt-e]

Hi All,

The next Leadleykits model is now available to purchase.

 

N Gauge version of HSFV1.

 

Model includes :-

 

HSFV1 vehicle + 5 ballast packs.

N-wheels all metal wheels 6.2mm
Dapol NEM pocket + shims
Graham Farish 379-401 couplings

 

Price is £25.00 inc P & P (UK Mainland only)

 

As always, these are produced to order.

 

Anyone wishing to order please contact me at leadleykits@gmail.com  stating which model and size.

 

See future projects and more information about my models at 

 

http:\\www.apt-e.org\leadleykits\model.html

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Regards

 

Paul

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by apt-e

[Calnefoxile]

On 08/05/2020 at 13:48, Calnefoxile said:

Paul,

 

Just in case you're interested, I've finally finished, well apart from decals, my version of HSFV1.

 

It's a bit crude, but I've had to scratchbuild the weights, 250 9mm long pieces of the smallest I Beam I could find 

 

Regards

 

Neal.

 

Paul,

 

Here's a reminder of how my Scratchbuilt version looks. The photo is a bit cruel and it doesn't really look that wonky in real life.

 

My packs were a ball ache to build, all built out of about 250 lengths of Plastruct 1.6mm I Beam 

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Calnefoxile

[apt-e]

Hi Neal,

To be honest, it was your model that made me think it was possible in N gauge, so thanks greatly for that.

 

Hastings Lab 4 is starting to take shape.

 

Regards

 

Paul.

 

[Robert Shrives]

42 minutes ago, Calnefoxile said:

 

Paul,

 

Here's a reminder of how my Scratchbuilt version looks. The photo is a bit cruel and it doesn't really look that wonky in real life.

 

My packs were a ball ache to build, all built out of about 250 lengths of Plastruct 1.6mm I Beam 

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

250 bits of code 40 BH rail ! fun soldering them together.. I recall the packs as rail rust . Good model regardless.  

[Roddy Angus]

On 07/02/2021 at 12:46, Mr_Tilt said:

IIRC HSFV1 was Rail Grey during the time the E-Train and PoP Train were running, but it was being used as a Track Loading vehicle by then, which is why that socking great girder was welded across its frame.

Hi Kit

 

I am thinking of doing the rail grey version of HSFV1, do you have any more information on the "socking great girder" which was used as a load?

 

Thanks

 

Roddy

[Mr_Tilt]

I sure do, it's still welded in place! We tried and tried to cut it off, but nothing worked and I think we'll need a thermic lance eventually. 

 

I've outlined it in red in the pic, and it had a large hydraulic jack attached to the centre of the girder reaching down between the vehicle frames to reach the track. When the jack was energised it transferred the load of the vehicle and the ballast packs to the rail heads. Or that was the theory anyway..... 

[Roddy Angus]

3 hours ago, Mr_Tilt said:

I sure do, it's still welded in place! We tried and tried to cut it off, but nothing worked and I think we'll need a thermic lance eventually. 

 

I've outlined it in red in the pic, and it had a large hydraulic jack attached to the centre of the girder reaching down between the vehicle frames to reach the track. When the jack was energised it transferred the load of the vehicle and the ballast packs to the rail heads. Or that was the theory anyway..... 

 

 

Thanks Kit, that is really helpful.  When you mentioned the "socking great girder" I had visions of a bridge support girder mounted on top of the frame, acting as the load, your explanation has clarified that. 

 

Can I just check, from photos, it seems that there was only a girder at one end, not both, wood was then used to build up the bed until it was level with the top of the girder and the rail frame was then laid on top of the wood.  Were the rail packs still used as a load on top of the rail frame??  Do you by any chance remember if wood was used to make a complete floor over the bed on the one side of the girder or was it simply laid along the frames?

 

Sorry about all the questions and thanks very much for your invaluable help.

 

Best wishes

Roddy

[Mr_Tilt]

1 hour ago, Roddy Angus said:

 

Thanks Kit, that is really helpful.  When you mentioned the "socking great girder" I had visions of a bridge support girder mounted on top of the frame, acting as the load, your explanation has clarified that. 

 

Can I just check, from photos, it seems that there was only a girder at one end, not both, wood was then used to build up the bed until it was level with the top of the girder and the rail frame was then laid on top of the wood.  Were the rail packs still used as a load on top of the rail frame??  Do you by any chance remember if wood was used to make a complete floor over the bed on the one side of the girder or was it simply laid along the frames?

 

Sorry about all the questions and thanks very much for your invaluable help.

 

Best wishes

Roddy

 

No probs Roddy, ask away, that's why I'm here for.

 

The pic below is taken from the other end, and there's only one girder (thank goodness...) When we took it over from Serco there were two layers of wood laid along the solebars, with transverse single lengths covering the entire bed along the main length. But there was no wood on the other side of the girder, just the vehicle structure. There were two lengths of wood along the length of the planked area up to the girder forming a 'wall' around the transverse decking. You can see that more clearly in the second pic, but ignore the sleepers at the far end, we bought them along for the vehicle to stand on at the ERM.

 

There was one ballast rail pack loaded directly onto the vehicle structure on the short end relative to the girder, and you can see that in the third pic. The fourth shows the longitudinal rails laid on top of the wood, and any other rail packs needed were loaded on top of that.

 

I hope that's helpful. 

 

Regards

Kit

 

 

[Roddy Angus]

Thanks once again Kit, that information is very helpful.

 

Best wishes

 

Roddy

[Michael Hodgson]

I was looking at photos before applying the transfers and found this view.

http://www.traintesting.com/images/HSFV1-DB.jpg

I wondered what the large boxes above the buffers were. 

Presumably not that important as they'd gone again in the grey version.

I am guessing the little figure 2 below them means that's No.2 end?   

 

The instructions for the OO version say the sides are handed, though I couldn't spot any lack of symmetry - apart from that "socking great girder" added later.

 

[apt-e]

Hi Mike,

If you line up the sides on the frame, there is a very very slight difference, as with the real thing,  it doesn't really make any difference but I thought I better point it out. The wheel set at one end are inset slightly, by the time you get down to 00 scale, you really wouldn't notice.  I try to make things as close as I can.

 

Regards

 

Paul.

 

[Mr_Tilt]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I was looking at photos before applying the transfers and found this view.

http://www.traintesting.com/images/HSFV1-DB.jpg

I wondered what the large boxes above the buffers were. 

Presumably not that important as they'd gone again in the grey version.

I am guessing the little figure 2 below them means that's No.2 end?   

 

 

Those boxes were junction boxes for the instrumentation cables leading from HSFV1 to Lab 3.  On the HSFV1 side they were hard wired to various sensors on the suspension and wheel sets, and on the Lab 3 side they were flexible cables lading to the boxes. The plugs and sockets were inside the boxes and sealed against the elements. 

 

The brackets for the boxes were still there when we moved it to the ERM, but they were very bent so we cut them off.

 

And yes, that '2' does mean it was the No. 2 end. That was important as sometimes the suspension and wheelsets were different end-to-end and the test crew needed to know which parameters they were measuring came from which end of course.

[apt-e]

Hi All,

Been working on Lab 4 Hastings in 00 today.

 

Early days, but not bad.  Thanks as always to Mr Tilt for his input.

 

First draft of 1 outer end.  I think the shape is correct now, needs more detail.

 

Regards

 

Paul.

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

Looks good Paul - but hey, this APT goes too fast - I'm still putting transfers on your HSFV1 !

 

I like the buffers being part of the end as long as it doesn't give you problems with a print run - fiddly things to apply individually

[apt-e]

Hi Mike.

The buffer pads on Hastings are sat on supports that are part of the end bulkhead print.  So you just need to put on the pads, rather than put the whole buffer assembly on.  HSFV1 needed a smooth flat buffer beam, so this was not possible, I did try, but the more models I design, the better they get to build.

 

Regards

 

Paul.

 

[Mr_Tilt]

But if you're modelling Hastings during its tilt test period you won't need buffers.

 

Hastings used bar couplers, just like PoP Train and for the same reason. When it was tilting it rotated approximately around the axis of the couplers and so didn't try and derail Lab3, Lab 10 or Lab 23.  

[apt-e]

Lol, that true Mr Tilt.  Forgot about that, might do them anyway, but leave on or not fit for personnel preference.

 

Early days of design.  I was looking at the photo as it is now.  Will use others from tilt time from now on.

 

Good job you are here Mr Tilt.

[Wolf27]

Probably best to leave the buffers on, it’s easier to remove them that to try and find suitable replacements.

 

cheers

 

Shane

[apt-e]

Hi Shane,

As Mr Tilt and me have discovered, the side panels changed so many times, so I plan to do it during its tilt testing times.  I will supply the the buffers in the kit.

 

If they are fitted or not, it's up to the person.  

 

Regards

 

Paul.

 

[apt-e]

Mr Tilt comes up trumps with drawings of Lab 4 Hastings.

 

Thank you as always Mr Tilt.