Water crane for Sherton Abbas

[wenlock]

I need to provide some watering facilities on my layout and would appreciate any advice.  I'm not really a fan of the classic GWR cylindrical or conical water towers and think that either type might dominate that end of the layout visually.  I rather like the idea of a platform mounted water crane along similar lines as the on set on the platform end at Whitney.

 

  I found this photo online and by quoting its source I hope I'm not infringing any copy right!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witney_railway_station#/media/File:Witney_station,_with_an_Oxford_-_Fairford_train_geograph-2571624-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

Here are a couple of pictures of my layout to give an idea of the state of play! :-)

 

 

 

I propose to site the water crane close to the end of the platform between the home starter and the goods shed end wall.

 

Ragstone models do a rather nice kit of a platform mounted crane at the botton of this link that I think would be very suitable. LS 030      http://www.ragstonemodels.co.uk/water-columns.html

 

I'm assuming that off stage on the other side of the road bridge there is a turntable and engine shed along with a water tower that could feed the platform mounted water crane.

 

Any thoughts on this as a prototypical situation on a small Edwardian Great Western branch line terminus would be very helpful!

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Dave,

 

I would suggest trying to find as many photos of you can of GWR branch termini to see where the water cranes were positioned.  I say that because I have a niggle in the back of my mind that water cranes on platforms were not a common feature at such places (although some probably did have them of course).  Our local station definitely didn't - the water tower was adjacent to the run round loop and I can think of similar, or vaguely similar situations elsewhere.

 

However if you do decide to put it on the platform I think you have the correct spot in mind for it.

[wenlock]

Dave,

 

I would suggest trying to find as many photos of you can of GWR branch termini to see where the water cranes were positioned.  I say that because I have a niggle in the back of my mind that water cranes on platforms were not a common feature at such places (although some probably did have them of course).  Our local station definitely didn't - the water tower was adjacent to the run round loop and I can think of similar, or vaguely similar situations elsewhere.

 

However if you do decide to put it on the platform I think you have the correct spot in mind for it.

Thanks Mike, I hoped you would provide some input:-) I've had a look through most of my books and as you say the majority of the termini that I've looked at employ either the cylindrical or conical type towers. There appear to be a number of favoured positions to site these.

 

1. At the stop block end of the run loop, so an engine would take on water before they run round.

 

2. At the other end of the loop, so water is taken on before the train departs the station.

 

3. Away from the platforms and situated by engine sheds and coaling facilities.

 

In my layout situation I think scenario 2 would place the tower so that it blocked the view from the signal box and would look very cluttered that end of the platform.

 

Scenario 1 might look quite good, I can visualise the tower set between the tracks at the stop block end of the layout.

 

Scenario 3 mean all watering facilities would be off stage!

 

As the foreground of the layout below the retaining wall is going to be water I guess use would have been made of this source!

 

I quite like the idea of Scenario 1 from an aesthetic point of view with maybe a corrugated iron hut to contain any pumping gear alongside the tower.

 

Any thoughts on my ponderings would be much appreciated !

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

[David C]

Nice looking layout! What's your objection to conical water tanks? Do you dislike them on aesthetic grounds or because the Ratio kit (the most commonly used) is too tall? If the latter, then the Ratio kit can be cut down so that it is less dominating. See photos of "Woodstowe" in Layout Topics.

 

David C

[wenlock]

Nice looking layout! What's your objection to conical water tanks? Do you dislike them on aesthetic grounds or because the Ratio kit (the most commonly used) is too tall? If the latter, then the Ratio kit can be cut down so that it is less dominating. See photos of "Woodstowe" in Layout Topics.

 

David C

Hi David, glad you like the layout:-) I've got no real objection to either the conical or flat top towers really apart from the fact that I think if I put one at the signal box end of my layout it might look a bit cluttered from an aesthetic point of view. However if I put one at the other end of the layout by the headshunt then I think it would look fine. My other concern is that the layout is 7mm scale and as far as I'm aware no one makes a decent kit for either type. I'm not impressed with the Skytrex offering, if someone made an etched brass kit I'd be very interested! I guess I could have a go at scratch building something, but the column that the water tank sits on looks like it might be a challenge! One of the larger rectangular tanks might be an interesting project and probably easier to build!

 

Thanks for your interest.

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

[wenlock]

Hi again David, I've just taken a look at your layout Woodstowe :-) What a lovely bit of modelling, very atmospheric and right up my street! I really don't know how I've missed seeing it before, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction :-)

 

Dave

[Phil Traxson]

Have you tried looking through the Invertrain Model Railways and Duncan Models ranges of kits as they have various water tanks.

 

Phil T.

[JZ]

If you have a water crane, be it platform or not, you would usually have a water tower nearby so there is a head of water.

[Free At Last]

If you have a water crane, be it platform or not, you would usually have a water tower nearby so there is a head of water.

I'm assuming that off stage on the other side of the road bridge there is a turntable and engine shed along with a water tower that could feed the platform mounted water crane.

 

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

Dave,

 

if you want to avoid conical tanks etc (what a great idea!) you could go for a brick built water tower with water crane attached as to be seen on this page (scroll down to find it in two pics) -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66922-the-stationmaster-says-goodbye-to-steam-at-henley-on-thames/

 

However you might think it's too big - the pump lived on the ground floor underneath the tank area - but it might fit at the stop blocks end of your platform line.  

[unravelled]

A quick, ( I hope), supplementary question about GW water cranes. Are there any major differences in the columns of the straight and cranked arm types? I need a straight arm type, so can it be modelled using the ratio water crane as a donor. Were there two heights of column, for ground level and platform use?

Apologies for hijack

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[wenlock]

Have you tried looking through the Invertrain Model Railways and Duncan Models ranges of kits as they have various water tanks.Phil T.

Thanks for the pointer Phil, Ill have a look and see if anything is suitable or can be adapted :-)

 

If you have a water crane, be it platform or not, you would usually have a water tower nearby so there is a head of water.

Thanks Jules, One of the options that I'm considering is to have a water tank in the foreground opposite the platform and alongside the double slip as a header tank to feed the platform mounted water crane.

 

Dave,

 

if you want to avoid conical tanks etc (what a great idea!) you could go for a brick built water tower with water crane attached as to be seen on this page (scroll down to find it in two pics) -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66922-the-stationmaster-says-goodbye-to-steam-at-henley-on-thames/

 

However you might think it's too big - the pump lived on the ground floor underneath the tank area - but it might fit at the stop blocks end of your platform line.  

Thanks Mike, I do like the idea of a water tank on a brick substructure like the one at Henley :-) I'm sure there must be smaller prototype structures out there that would be ideal for my situation.

 

A quick, ( I hope), supplementary question about GW water cranes. Are there any major differences in the columns of the straight and cranked arm types? I need a straight arm type, so can it be modelled using the ratio water crane as a donor. Were there two heights of column, for ground level and platform use?Apologies for hijackThanksDave

Can't help with your question Dave, but I'm sure other more knowledgable souls will be able to help! No worries about the thread hijack, all information is useful! :-)

[The Stationmaster]

A quick, ( I hope), supplementary question about GW water cranes. Are there any major differences in the columns of the straight and cranked arm types? I need a straight arm type, so can it be modelled using the ratio water crane as a donor. Were there two heights of column, for ground level and platform use?

Apologies for hijack

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

There appear to have been art least two heights of columns (I say at east as when the Collett 4,000 gallon tender appeared there was a need for taller columns in order to swing right over the top of the tender to reach the central filler - hence the small batch of tenders with fillers at each side on the rear deck of the tender).

[unravelled]

The plans drawn for  the Oxford Publishing GW station books show water crane locations. I also checked out the online 25" maps, but they don't show them, which is a pity.

 

I  read somewhere that the cranked arms were introduced to solve the 4000 gallon tender problem. I've assumed they simply replaced the straight arms keeping the original fixed colums. Not having looked at it in any detail, I wonder whether the 4000 gallon tender issue was widespread, or just occurred where the platform/track height was the wrong side of the average. Most of the straight arm water cranes I've found in pictures seem to have the arm somewhat above cab height, as far as I can tell.

 

My curiosity about this comes fron the fact that my station of interest, Thame, has one cranked and one straght arm water crane.

 

Thanks

 

Davw

[The Stationmaster]

The plans drawn for  the Oxford Publishing GW station books show water crane locations. I also checked out the online 25" maps, but they don't show them, which is a pity.

 

I  read somewhere that the cranked arms were introduced to solve the 4000 gallon tender problem. I've assumed they simply replaced the straight arms keeping the original fixed colums. Not having looked at it in any detail, I wonder whether the 4000 gallon tender issue was widespread, or just occurred where the platform/track height was the wrong side of the average. Most of the straight arm water cranes I've found in pictures seem to have the arm somewhat above cab height, as far as I can tell.

 

My curiosity about this comes fron the fact that my station of interest, Thame, has one cranked and one straght arm water crane.

 

Thanks

 

Davw

 

Have a look at the thread of my pics I linked above - in addition to the water tower there are two water cranes.  On the second page you'll see a Mk1 coach right alongside one giving a very good idea of its height.

[David C]

Looe in Cornwall had a smaller tank than Henley, but mounted on a stone base. The Liskeard and Looe line had been absorbed by the GWR and still retained many of its non standard (and often eccentric) features until reduced to a "pointless" stub in recent years. All of your other buildings are of brick, but you could build a version of this material which might be less dominating than a Henley size one. Pics on http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/looe-branch-including-moorswater.html.

 

David C

[phil_sutters]

Having had a quick skim through my GW 'library', it is clear that platform mounted water columns are much more frequently found on through stations, where there was a need to take on water during a journey, than at termini. One terminus with a column at the outer end of a double sided platform was Windsor & Eton Central - complete with waste water funnel-type drain and heater. Another was Birmingham Moor Street. Neither are typical rural branch line termini! With a station of your size a small cylindrical or conical tank away from the platform would seem to be a more likely provision. Your layout so far is very impressive.

[wenlock]

Looe in Cornwall had a smaller tank than Henley, but mounted on a stone base. The Liskeard and Looe line had been absorbed by the GWR and still retained many of its non standard (and often eccentric) features until reduced to a "pointless" stub in recent years. All of your other buildings are of brick, but you could build a version of this material which might be less dominating than a Henley size one. Pics on http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/looe-branch-including-moorswater.html.

 

David C

Thanks David, what a great set of photos! I've been trawling through my books and have found a lovely looking prototype at Abbotsbury :-) The one at Abbotsbury is built from stone, but I think I may have a go at scratch building a brick version.

 

Dave

[wenlock]

Having had a quick skim through my GW 'library', it is clear that platform mounted water columns are much more frequently found on through stations, where there was a need to take on water during a journey, than at termini. One terminus with a column at the outer end of a double sided platform was Windsor & Eton Central - complete with waste water funnel-type drain and heater. Another was Birmingham Moor Street. Neither are typical rural branch line termini! With a station of your size a small cylindrical or conical tank away from the platform would seem to be a more likely provision. Your layout so far is very impressive.

Hi Phil, glad you like the layout :-) I've come to the same conclusion to you in that platform mounted columns are fairly unusual at termini. I think I'm going to go for a water tank down near the stop blocks on a brick built tower similar in style to the one at Abbotsbury.

 

Dave

[unravelled]

KIngsbridge station had a water crane at the platform end.

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/k/kingsbridge/

 

I have spent an interesting afternoon with my photo collection looking for water cranes, and tagging them for future reference. I'll make up an album on flickr showing the variations I've found so far. I have spotted straight and cranked arm versions in both short and long column varieties. There are also two forms of staying as well as ( I think), different arm lengths depending on location.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[wenlock]

KIngsbridge station had a water crane at the platform end.http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/k/kingsbridge/I have spent an interesting afternoon with my photo collection looking for water cranes, and tagging them for future reference. I'll make up an album on flickr showing the variations I've found so far. I have spotted straight and cranked arm versions in both short and long column varieties. There are also two forms of staying as well as ( I think), different arm lengths depending on location.ThanksDave

Thanks Dave, some great pictures in that link! Looking forward to seeing the Flickr album!

 

Dave

[The Stationmaster]

KIngsbridge station had a water crane at the platform end.

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/k/kingsbridge/

 

I have spent an interesting afternoon with my photo collection looking for water cranes, and tagging them for future reference. I'll make up an album on flickr showing the variations I've found so far. I have spotted straight and cranked arm versions in both short and long column varieties. There are also two forms of staying as well as ( I think), different arm lengths depending on location.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

Don't forget the Kingsbridge one was also sited in just about the only place it could readily be put in order to serve the engine shed (although oddly the water tank was right outside the shed!).