New West Midlands Franchise - Standing Room Only?

[wombatofludham]

I've only been on one Class 350/2 and it rode fine. Trust me, if you had spent a large part of the 1980s and half the 1990s having your spine destroyed by the Class 304s with their bungee suspension and 50p shaped wheels, even the high speed twirking of the Javelin I rode to Folkestone was preferable.

 

Nothing but nothing is, was or ever has been as bad as a 304 at speed on the old Bescot to Hamstead stretch.

[Covkid]

The one I came home in tonight which was in the new livery was a 350/3. In my experience the 350/2's are the worst riding of the sub-classes, the 350/1's seem to be the best. The ride quality on some of the 350/2's is shocking, although I'd not rate the ride quality of any of them as being particularly good.

 

So why would the /2s be any rougher that the other sibling classes ? I know the /1s had collector beams for 750v but cannot think of other differences

[jjb1970]

So why would the /2s be any rougher that the other sibling classes ? I know the /1s had collector beams for 750v but cannot think of other differences

I really don't know. Part of it could be the uncomfortable seating of the 350/2 sets amplifying ride quality issues. They suffer from a quite violent transverse motion, it feels like the transverse damping is initially too soft allowing high acceleration followed by very rapid de-acceleration as it reaches limits of travel.

Of the trains I use on the WCML the 350's have the worst ride. You would probably expect the Pendolinos and Voyagers to be better as they're 125mph inter City trains but the Electrostars and 319's ride better. The 319's feel like they're about to fall to bits and some of the traction packages have an odd surging behaviour but their swaying rock and roll is less violent and more comfortable than the 350's I find.

[jjb1970]

They've introduced a "code of conduct", well so train announcements are saying. The first bit is that we have to have a valid ticket (is that not a legal requirement?) followed by orders to be considerate to other passengers, not put feet on seats and put rubbish in the bins. Closed off by a warning that it's all on cctv. I don't disagree with the idea but unless senior conductors become more visible it'll just be another annoying announcement that is played at regular intervals.

[jjb1970]

On a positive note the threshold for delay repay has been reduced to 15 minutes. Should be quite handy that.

[Amnesiac]

On a positive note the threshold for delay repay has been reduced to 15 minutes. Should be quite handy that.

 

A nice positive at this time of year, especially. Too many times over the last few winters I've been waiting beyond 15 minutes for the train to Lichfield TV from Nuneaton.

[caradoc]

I glimpsed 350373 in LNWR livery from a passing Pendolino at lunchtime today, stabled at Camden. And one of the roughest rides I have had in recent years was on a Transspennine 350/4 from Carlisle to Glasgow C.

[DavidB-AU]

New West Midlands franchise orders 107 trains

 

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/europe/new-british-west-midlands-franchise-orders-107-trains.html

 

This suggests something like the class 720 and class 195.

 

Cheers

David

Edited December 13, 2017 by DavidB-AU

[jonathan452]

I really don't know. Part of it could be the uncomfortable seating of the 350/2 sets amplifying ride quality issues. They suffer from a quite violent transverse motion, it feels like the transverse damping is initially too soft allowing high acceleration followed by very rapid de-acceleration as it reaches limits of travel.

Of the trains I use on the WCML the 350's have the worst ride. You would probably expect the Pendolinos and Voyagers to be better as they're 125mph inter City trains but the Electrostars and 319's ride better. The 319's feel like they're about to fall to bits and some of the traction packages have an odd surging behaviour but their swaying rock and roll is less violent and more comfortable than the 350's I find.

And indeed-:

 

St Albans’ Abbey Flyer disrupted after staff shortages - http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/st-albans-abbey-flyer-disrupted-after-staff-shortages-1-5318563

 

Services cancelled on Abbey Flyer because of train fault - http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/services-cancelled-on-abbey-flyer-because-of-train-fault-1-5318795

[black and decker boy]

Oddly 450s which aren't much different seem to ride pretty well in my experience.

Though maybe I just don't notice because the seating is worse...

The 450s have stabilisers whereas the 350s have a higher centre of gravity ;-)

[jjb1970]

One thing I will give test 350's is that ride quality aside there is a reassuring feeling of solidity about them and a build quality which is unusual. If they could sort the ride quality they'd be among the best trains on the network. When the 319's pass another train it can be quite alarming, they make some worrying noise and vibration and the power delivery is weird. I once wrote to LM to report one pulling off with the doors still open and got the standard reply with no follow up to offer any assurance. However I do prefer the ride of the 319's.

[Hobby]

The 450s have stabilisers 

 

The third rail pick up shoes?  

[D854_Tiger]

One thing I will give test 350's is that ride quality aside there is a reassuring feeling of solidity about them and a build quality which is unusual. If they could sort the ride quality they'd be among the best trains on the network. When the 319's pass another train it can be quite alarming, they make some worrying noise and vibration and the power delivery is weird. I once wrote to LM to report one pulling off with the doors still open and got the standard reply with no follow up to offer any assurance. However I do prefer the ride of the 319's.

 

I've used class 350 quite a bit to get down to London.

 

Where I live, I'm spoiled for choice for services to London, I have the option of Warwick Parkway (Chiltern), International (Virgin and LNW) or Coleshill Parkway (change Nuneaton into the TV Flyer).

 

There's also the option of local stations on the Brum - Coventry line where the LNW services stop, typically twice per hour, that go through to Euston, one in the morning which, once it gets to Northampton, is fast to London.

 

On the TV flyer I find the class 350 superb, 110 mph and just two stops, in my opinion the best units the WCML has ever had. Yes the older class 321, 319, 317 family ride just as well (I believe based on the truly wonderful mk3) but frankly BR sure knew how to design a sow's ear from a silk purse because the travelling ambience of those units always was basically awful for longer journeys.

 

If LNW were still using them round my way to London, Virgin would be getting my money every time and the fact they don't nowadays I think speaks very well for the class 350.

 

Anyway, found a Youtube clip of the new West Midlands Livery (still looking for the LNW one).

 

 

 

P.S. I last went to London, three weeks ago, I parked up at Coleshill, TV Flyer from Nuneaton to Euston, then came home on Chiltern loco hauled (staying on until The Hawthorns), tram to New Street and finally class 170 back to Coleshill - nice day out and someone else was paying for first class.

[melmerby]

Just picked up some new West Midland Trains' timetables.

I feel some confusion will occur among the travelling public due to the duplication of some services by the two operating arms of the franchise.

In Timetable 1 which includes all the services on a common map several of the stations seem to have both brands in use.

 

I assume tickets will be valid for either brand on the common routes? E.g. Wolverhampton - Birmingham - Coventry has both "local" (WMR) and "long distance" (LNWR) coverage.

 

All the announcements at Birmingham New Street correctly identify which brand it is.

 

Keith

Edited December 14, 2017 by melmerby

[Hobby]

If they say "Any Permitted" then they are valid on any service in the West Midlands...

[jjb1970]

I'm not sure why they need two brands other than to assuage regional vanity in the Midlands and North West. Seems a bit pointless to me.

[D854_Tiger]

I'm not sure why they need two brands other than to assuage regional vanity in the Midlands and North West. Seems a bit pointless to mett

 

Politics, once you create a whole new level of government, that no one is interested in (judging by the turnout for its election), it's probably most important that we know they are there.

 

Then, once they are there, they have to do stuff, no matter how much it may irritate us, or else we might ask why ever did we need them.

 

In Scotland they even gave the Scottish parliament the power to raise taxes and set alcohol prices, that was like giving Wee Jimmy Krankie a catapult for Xmas and telling them not to point it at anyone.

[melmerby]

If they say "Any Permitted" then they are valid on any service in the West Midlands...

How does the passenger sorry, 'customer' know what is meant by "any permitted"?

 

keith

[Hobby]

If they are not sure then they ask at a booking office... I think it may be online somewhere as well, but I'm not sure where... As a quick guide if you have Trainline or similar and put in a journey it will give you quickest route with any permitted alternatives.

 

(PS Still "passengers" as far as I am concerned... )

Edited December 16, 2017 by Hobby

[jjb1970]

"Any Permitted" always strikes me as a rather odd condition as by definition if a ticket is permitted for a route or service then it is valid, or not not if it isn't permitted. Didn't it used to be "any reasonable"?

[Supaned]

Back in the distant past when I worked in a booking office , there were some anomalies in the "Any Permitted" routes , which led to consternation.

 

From Coventry at 0600 , the connection given by National Rail Enquiries to Glasgow Central was via Rugby , however this was not a valid "Any Permitted" route , despite being far quicker and more convenient , with passengers instead being advised to travel via New Street for the 0655 from there , which arrived later.

 

I would hope that in the intervening period , things have changed somewhat, but who knows with the Rail Industry these days.

 

Back to WM Trains , I noted rumblings of discontent from the RMT re the ordering of new trains and a whiff of DOO operation , as indeed I predicted would be the case . The MD of the new TOC has been equally evasive in his statements , simply saying that all trains would have two members of staff and that they would be looking to consult with staff with regard to future working methods. Which I think says all we need to know.

 

Link to news report here :

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42356413

Edited December 16, 2017 by Supaned

[jjb1970]

Oh dear.... come back London Midland. I'll admit I could be quite cross when things went wrong but on the whole I thought they did an excellent job. So far the mood music coming out of the new franchise (except for lowering the delay repay threshold) isn't positive. Staff morale doesn't seem positive and a few throwaway comments I've heard this week spoke volumes. 

[CovDriver]

Jjb 1970 you've hit the nail on the head with that last comment of course I can't really say anymore but myself and the rest of the staff will agree with you.

[Hobby]

I'd be surprised if they didn't try the DOO route, I'd then be surprised if anyone not travelling to Brum bothered buying a ticket on the West Midlands part of the franchise... When will they learn, the Railways must have lost billions since BR got rid of barrier staff at small stations (not to mention large ones - Sheffield anyone!!)... What was in the Franchise Agreement, that should say whether the Government expected them to implement it or not?

Edited December 16, 2017 by Hobby

[jjb1970]

Abellio took over a franchise that was working well and with a lot more positive aspects than negatives, all they have to do is polish what LM left them. If my only real whinge is the ride quality of the 350s then LM were doing OK as far as I am concerned.